Was just looking over a hospital bill for my son....

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Doesnt it feel wonderful to pay those huge ass medical personel salaries, especially for boobery and incompetance? One of the true pleasures in life. :disgust:

I suppose it feels as wonderful as being completely ignorant of the topic. :roll:

Let me guess, you are one of pigs at the trough? Shame on you sir!

Nurses dont need to collect 6 figures. I dont care what you say. Dont care. Neither do staff. They are bloated pigs that need to be slaughtered.

Nationalize heathcare and regulate salaries. Quality be damned. I used to argue for the "the other side", but I can see now I was wrong. The system we have now of runaway costs including exorbitant salaries unsustainable.

Not that many nurses collect six figure salaries. RN's avg around $70k, and this includes the pricey, private care facilities. LPN's avg around $40k.

For you to advocate the "slaughter" of healthcare workers is sickening.

My g/f is a former nurse. She took lots of shit from patients. She had patients beat her, and yet couldn't fight back - there would have been a lawsuit had she done so.

She's permanently disabled in one knee due to an accident resulting from patient care.

I sincerely hope you don't actually wish for the death of a particular group that includes some wonderful people.

I did lack surgical precision. I dont think throwing people in a wood chipper would help much in the way of reducing healthcare costs, but lowering salaries to an amount that we can afford to pay would be a start. So I guess I should have been more clear, it was the bloat I see in the salaries of not only nurses but all staff. Everytime I look at a healthcare job online or in the paper locally I see some pretty big figures with hefty sign on bonuses. Sure we can argue all day long about comparable work and the salaries of baseball players, cops, teachers and astronauts. Anesthesiologists dont need to make $400,000 per year. Sorry. 🙁

I wish you and your gf well, and affordable universal healthcare for all. I used to oppose it, but now I see no other option.

It's a tough situation. I agree that many of the salaries are too high. And many hospitals/medical facilities frequently screw the patient in terms of charges.

My g/f's mother used to be an anesthesiologist, unfortunately before they made so much money. Part of the huge salary of an anesthesiologist is due to medical malpractice insurance, which can hit $100k. This is one of those jobs that many people don't want to do, because of the high insurance and risk involved. Hence, the outsized-looking salaries.

"Affordable universal healthcare" would be great, and part of that would be to reduce the education costs and also the litigation risks.

EDIT: my bad, my g/f's mother was an anesthetist, not anesthesiologist: I always get the 2 terms mixed up.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: sao123
[*]A broken bone (call your doctor to see if he/she can treat you the same day, if not? or if bone is showing, limb is deformed?go to the ER).

That depends a lot on the circumstances. For a broken bone that would NOT require surgery I would say yeah, don't go. But how is a normal person supposed to know that?

I'd say that one also depends on time of day. If the injury occurs say.. late afternoon on a Friday and for whatever reason you won't be able to see your PCP till Monday, then hell with it. Go to the ER. A splint could be a good thing even if it isn't broken.

Which is exactly when it happened (3pm-ish on a Friday). And, as previously stated, I didn't go to the ER so sao123 can take his list and leave 🙂

How is a ER/Urgent Care supposed to know either? ONLY A Orthopedic physician will know after taking Xrays. ER's are staffed for emergency/life threatening care: Heart Attacks, Strokes, Anaphylaxis, Trauma, etc. Not for broken bones. How are you supposed to know?? The same way, you are supposed to know not to call 911 for a hangnail. Common sense. Broken bone? immobilize it, and wait for the next orthopedic appointment, which they will usually see you same day / next day for more severe breaks.
RULE OF THUMB: If you wouldnt call 911... then dont go to the hospital for it.

furthermore
no insurance = fail
choosing a PCP without weekend hours = bigger fail
going to "the hospital" whether ER or "Urgent Care", without contacting ANY orthopedic physician = biggest fail

if you could have wrapped it better than the "Urgent Care" did, then you could have done that and called a doctor the next available office day.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: sao123
mebe you should realize that you dont go to the ER for a broken bone???

Text
you insurance will tell you, you ER should tell you, your PCP will tell you...

MAKE AN APPOINTMENT AT AN OTHOPEDIC SPECIALIST


Bad Reasons to Go to an Emergency Room:

[*]Earache.
[*]Minor cuts where bleeding is controlled.
[*]A minor dog or animal bite where bleeding is controlled (but see your doctor?a rabies shot may be necessary).
[*]A broken bone (call your doctor to see if he/she can treat you the same day, if not? or if bone is showing, limb is deformed?go to the ER).
[*]A sprain.
[*]A sunburn or minor burn from cooking.
[*]An insect sting or delayed swelling from a sting (if there is breathing difficulty, go to the ER).
[*]A skin rash.
[*]Fever (if there is a convulsion, go to the ER).
[*]Sexually-transmitted diseases.
[*]Colds and cough, sore throat, flu.

i ran my hand through with a knife one time, had the bleeding controlled. still needed stitches tho, the entry was almost 1.5" and the exit was about 3/4". this was on a saturday nite in a small town with no "urgent care" facilities. since the bleeding was controlled, was i supposed to just wing it till monday and go see my regular doc? hell no. emergency room it was. probably would have been better off waiting tho, the doc that sewed me up was an idiot, put 7 stitches total in my hand. but i got a couple bitching scars from it lol

that is not a minor cut.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Anesthesiologists dont need to make $400,000 per year. Sorry. 🙁

I'd like to know your rationale for that statement. Are you willing to go to school for 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school, then multiple additional years for specialization? All so you can pick up a fairly stressful and extremely important specialty. These are highly trained and certified individuals who need to be very exact with what they do. I'm curious, since you do seem to have all the necessary understanding, what would you suggest they make? Don't forget to keep in mind that they're also paying somewhere around 20k annually just in malpractice insurance.

What's absurd is the amount of people out there - yourself included - that think what you pay goes right into doctor/nurse pockets. Are you guys serious? You can't possibly be that obtuse. You do realize they may only see a fraction of that bill.

Not to mention your life is literally in the hands of the anesthesiologist. The need to make as much as possible to keep highly skilled and trained people in that position.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Anesthesiologists dont need to make $400,000 per year. Sorry. 🙁

I'd like to know your rationale for that statement. Are you willing to go to school for 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school, then multiple additional years for specialization? All so you can pick up a fairly stressful and extremely important specialty. These are highly trained and certified individuals who need to be very exact with what they do. I'm curious, since you do seem to have all the necessary understanding, what would you suggest they make? Don't forget to keep in mind that they're also paying somewhere around 20k annually just in malpractice insurance.

What's absurd is the amount of people out there - yourself included - that think what you pay goes right into doctor/nurse pockets. Are you guys serious? You can't possibly be that obtuse. You do realize they may only see a fraction of that bill.

On a tangentially-related note: $20k for malpractice insurance? Wow, that's actually a bargain compared to the numbers I've heard thrown around ($80k+/year). Then again, that was with respect to surgeons, who likely have somewhat higher premiums.

It was an average, so obviously there's a lot of leeway on both sides. I've seen as little as 4.5k and I know an anesthesiologist paying over 50k. I feel bad for the obstetricians, though. Many are paying over 6 figures in malpractice insurance .. some even near 200k annually. Now let someone tell them they shouldn't make 6 figure incomes. :roll:

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Anesthesiologists dont need to make $400,000 per year. Sorry. 🙁

I'd like to know your rationale for that statement. Are you willing to go to school for 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school, then multiple additional years for specialization? All so you can pick up a fairly stressful and extremely important specialty. These are highly trained and certified individuals who need to be very exact with what they do. I'm curious, since you do seem to have all the necessary understanding, what would you suggest they make? Don't forget to keep in mind that they're also paying somewhere around 20k annually just in malpractice insurance.

What's absurd is the amount of people out there - yourself included - that think what you pay goes right into doctor/nurse pockets. Are you guys serious? You can't possibly be that obtuse. You do realize they may only see a fraction of that bill.

On a tangentially-related note: $20k for malpractice insurance? Wow, that's actually a bargain compared to the numbers I've heard thrown around ($80k+/year). Then again, that was with respect to surgeons, who likely have somewhat higher premiums.

Actually, surgeons' malpractice insurance can vary a lot, but often if the surgeon makes a mistake, he/she can correct it. If an anesthesiologist makes a mistake, it can often be fatal, or nearly so.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: sao123
going to "the hospital" whether ER or "Urgent Care", without contacting ANY orthopedic physician = biggest fail

Just so I'm clear, what you are proposing is as follows, correct?

1. Contact primary physician - if you are lucky you can get in the same day. More likely you will have to wait a day and still will be seeing someone else.

2. Physician refers you to orthopedic expert.

3. 1 month later, you see the guy.

4. Expert refers you to urgent care.

5. Urgent care fixes it, after 5 hours of waiting.

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: sao123
[*]A broken bone (call your doctor to see if he/she can treat you the same day, if not? or if bone is showing, limb is deformed?go to the ER).

That depends a lot on the circumstances. For a broken bone that would NOT require surgery I would say yeah, don't go. But how is a normal person supposed to know that?

I'd say that one also depends on time of day. If the injury occurs say.. late afternoon on a Friday and for whatever reason you won't be able to see your PCP till Monday, then hell with it. Go to the ER. A splint could be a good thing even if it isn't broken.

Which is exactly when it happened (3pm-ish on a Friday). And, as previously stated, I didn't go to the ER so sao123 can take his list and leave 🙂

How is a ER/Urgent Care supposed to know either? ONLY A Orthopedic physician will know after taking Xrays. ER's are staffed for emergency/life threatening care: Heart Attacks, Strokes, Anaphylaxis, Trauma, etc. Not for broken bones. .

... are you honestly going to sit there and claim ER physicians don't know how to read X-rays, CT scans, MRIs, etc.? Sure, they aren't going to be as good in the specific areas as the orthopods/radiologists would .. but Christ man, of course ER physicians can spot a broken bone on an X-ray.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: iFX

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
our healthcare system is effed up and needs a full reform.

You want to see a messed up health care system go to Canada where it's illegal to see a doctor out of turn, even if you're dying. Our system might not be perfect but it's pretty damn good.

Huh? What part of Canada did you visit where that happened?

Your statement is complete hogwash.

KT

Sorry, but it does happen and having nationalistic tendencies will further the problem.

A survey published in the Annals of Internal Medicine medical journal found that more than 80 percent of heart doctors in Canada gave preferential access to patients due to social status rather than medical need. I found a link to a site that mentions it and provides the journal information:

link

A survey of provider experiences and perceptions of preferential access to cardiovascular care in Ontario, Canada

Some Canadians are receiving preferential treatment for cardiovascular diseases even though their health care system is based on equal access for all. A survey of 788 Canadian family physicians, cardiologists, cardiac surgeons and hospital executives found that 80% of the doctors and 53% of the executives had arranged preferential treatment for some patients. Usually, this was reserved for politicians and other public figures, personal friends and family members, hospital board members and donors to hospital foundations.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Anesthesiologists dont need to make $400,000 per year. Sorry. 🙁

I'd like to know your rationale for that statement. Are you willing to go to school for 4 years of undergrad, 4 years of medical school, then multiple additional years for specialization? All so you can pick up a fairly stressful and extremely important specialty. These are highly trained and certified individuals who need to be very exact with what they do. I'm curious, since you do seem to have all the necessary understanding, what would you suggest they make? Don't forget to keep in mind that they're also paying somewhere around 20k annually just in malpractice insurance.

What's absurd is the amount of people out there - yourself included - that think what you pay goes right into doctor/nurse pockets. Are you guys serious? You can't possibly be that obtuse. You do realize they may only see a fraction of that bill.

I understand where you are comming from. And these where the same arguments I used to make when I was opposed to socialized medicine. I think its time to try something different, like subsidizing healthcare employess educations, making them immune to most (but not all) lawsuits, and taking those savings to reduce salaries accross the board. I still have to hold my nose at this idea, but there are too many uninsured people out there and its only getting worse with the bad economy.

Just the other day, I was watching the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff speak on CSPAN with regard to the affect of healthcare costs on our national defense budget. He said it has doubled from 6% of all money spent in 2001 to almost 12% this year and is epected to double again in another seven years unless something is done with our system of healthcare.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: iFX

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
our healthcare system is effed up and needs a full reform.

You want to see a messed up health care system go to Canada where it's illegal to see a doctor out of turn, even if you're dying. Our system might not be perfect but it's pretty damn good.

Huh? What part of Canada did you visit where that happened?

Your statement is complete hogwash.

KT

Sorry, but it does happen and having nationalistic tendencies will further the problem.

A survey published in the Annals of Internal Medicine medical journal found that more than 80 percent of heart doctors in Canada gave preferential access to patients due to social status rather than medical need. I found a link to a site that mentions it and provides the journal information:

link

A survey of provider experiences and perceptions of preferential access to cardiovascular care in Ontario, Canada

Some Canadians are receiving preferential treatment for cardiovascular diseases even though their health care system is based on equal access for all. A survey of 788 Canadian family physicians, cardiologists, cardiac surgeons and hospital executives found that 80% of the doctors and 53% of the executives had arranged preferential treatment for some patients. Usually, this was reserved for politicians and other public figures, personal friends and family members, hospital board members and donors to hospital foundations.

Ah, excellent counter-point. Therefore, logically, the way Canada works is this:

1. You take a little ticket like at a supermarket deli. Let's say you are # 1023
2. Currently serving: 298
3. You experience a life-threatening emergency. Irrelevant. The 700+ people, including those with a hangnail, get to go first because it's FIFO.
4. Politician pays $3m to jump to 299.
5. Meanwhile, you died.
6. At your grandchildren's funeral, they finally call 1023.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: iFX

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
our healthcare system is effed up and needs a full reform.

You want to see a messed up health care system go to Canada where it's illegal to see a doctor out of turn, even if you're dying. Our system might not be perfect but it's pretty damn good.

Huh? What part of Canada did you visit where that happened?

Your statement is complete hogwash.

KT

Sorry, but it does happen and having nationalistic tendencies will further the problem.

A survey published in the Annals of Internal Medicine medical journal found that more than 80 percent of heart doctors in Canada gave preferential access to patients due to social status rather than medical need. I found a link to a site that mentions it and provides the journal information:

link

A survey of provider experiences and perceptions of preferential access to cardiovascular care in Ontario, Canada

Some Canadians are receiving preferential treatment for cardiovascular diseases even though their health care system is based on equal access for all. A survey of 788 Canadian family physicians, cardiologists, cardiac surgeons and hospital executives found that 80% of the doctors and 53% of the executives had arranged preferential treatment for some patients. Usually, this was reserved for politicians and other public figures, personal friends and family members, hospital board members and donors to hospital foundations.

That abstract tells us absolutely nothing and prefernce being given to politicians and other powerful individuals is the norm in every single corner of the world. Also, that makes no reference to life threatening illness or injury, which is what was being discussed originally. As I stated, from personal experience, anyone I know that has had anything even remotely close to life threatening, did not have to wait at all for treatment and was not assaulted with bills after leaving the hospital.

UHC has a lot of issues to be sure, but I'd still rather have our system than the one in the US. Who knows, maybe I'll change my tune once I get old and require more care, but as of right now, this is how I feel.

KT

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
It's a tough situation. I agree that many of the salaries are too high. And many hospitals/medical facilities frequently screw the patient in terms of charges.

And I'm pretty sure the medical equipment companies frequently screw the facilities, so the buck has to get passed somehow.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: hanoverphist

Originally posted by: sao123
mebe you should realize that you dont go to the ER for a broken bone???

Text
you insurance will tell you, you ER should tell you, your PCP will tell you...

MAKE AN APPOINTMENT AT AN OTHOPEDIC SPECIALIST


Bad Reasons to Go to an Emergency Room:

[*]Earache.
[*]Minor cuts where bleeding is controlled.
[*]A minor dog or animal bite where bleeding is controlled (but see your doctor?a rabies shot may be necessary).
[*]A broken bone (call your doctor to see if he/she can treat you the same day, if not? or if bone is showing, limb is deformed?go to the ER).
[*]A sprain.
[*]A sunburn or minor burn from cooking.
[*]An insect sting or delayed swelling from a sting (if there is breathing difficulty, go to the ER).
[*]A skin rash.
[*]Fever (if there is a convulsion, go to the ER).
[*]Sexually-transmitted diseases.
[*]Colds and cough, sore throat, flu.

i ran my hand through with a knife one time, had the bleeding controlled. still needed stitches tho, the entry was almost 1.5" and the exit was about 3/4". this was on a saturday nite in a small town with no "urgent care" facilities. since the bleeding was controlled, was i supposed to just wing it till monday and go see my regular doc? hell no. emergency room it was. probably would have been better off waiting tho, the doc that sewed me up was an idiot, put 7 stitches total in my hand. but i got a couple bitching scars from it lol

that is not a minor cut.

for some reason, i didnt even see the "minor" in the original until you just typed it... selective reading FTW!

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
It's a tough situation. I agree that many of the salaries are too high. And many hospitals/medical facilities frequently screw the patient in terms of charges.

And I'm pretty sure the medical equipment companies frequently screw the facilities, so the buck has to get passed somehow.

Wait a minute, are you suggesting capitalism is merely a system where everybody is out to screw everybody else to get ahead? 😉

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
It's a tough situation. I agree that many of the salaries are too high. And many hospitals/medical facilities frequently screw the patient in terms of charges.

And I'm pretty sure the medical equipment companies frequently screw the facilities, so the buck has to get passed somehow.

Wait a minute, are you suggesting capitalism is merely a system where everybody is out to screw everybody else to get ahead? 😉

Mostly.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
$284 for an Urgent Care visit (fine)
$194 to apply a finger splint. The same finger splint that A) didnt fit at all B) fell off before he even got home.

Stellar deal there.

Why not tax the hospitals??

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

... are you honestly going to sit there and claim ER physicians don't know how to read X-rays, CT scans, MRIs, etc.? Sure, they aren't going to be as good in the specific areas as the orthopods/radiologists would .. but Christ man, of course ER physicians can spot a broken bone on an X-ray.

sure they can read them... but yhere are plenty of NON-hospital (cheaper) places to go for just outpatient X-rays. but if the bone has to be set, they cant do it, which is why orthopedic expert have their own Xray departments right in the office.

hmm... do I go to 2 doctors, or just 1?

Originally posted by: torpid

Originally posted by: sao123
going to "the hospital" whether ER or "Urgent Care", without contacting ANY orthopedic physician = biggest fail

Just so I'm clear, what you are proposing is as follows, correct?

1. Contact primary physician - if you are lucky you can get in the same day. More likely you will have to wait a day and still will be seeing someone else.

2. Physician refers you to orthopedic expert.
3. 1 month later, you see the guy.
4. Expert refers you to urgent care.
5. Urgent care fixes it, after 5 hours of waiting.

Several years ago, i broke my arm after falling on rollerblades. Called orthopedic specialist office (BCBS - no referral needed). Had Xrays done that day, had surgery done the next.
I have never waited more than 3-4 days to see any specialist, ever!
Oh and... no doctor will ever refer you back to the hospital for any care, unless you are about to die, and you need to be in intensive care.

Back on point...According to OP "Urgent Care" failed to fix it, and wrapped it himself...therefore it was an injury needing no (read: ZERO) medical care. Which IMO should have done in the FIRST PLACE.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: sao123
Several years ago, i broke my arm after falling on rollerblades. Called orthopedic specialist office (BCBS - no referral needed). Had Xrays done that day, had surgery done the next.
I have never waited more than 3-4 days to see any specialist, ever!

Thus, logically, because you haven't ever had to wait, no one has... I get it. Wow, ATOT sure is full of experts in the field of logic today. :roll:

Oh and... no doctor will ever refer you back to the hospital for any care, unless you are about to die, and you need to be in intensive care.

Excellent. So you agree your wording made no sense?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: Homerboy
$284 for an Urgent Care visit (fine)
$194 to apply a finger splint. The same finger splint that A) didnt fit at all B) fell off before he even got home.

Stellar deal there.

Why not tax the hospitals??

Wow that UCSD education is hard at work.

 

[Evadman]

finger splint = Popsicle sticks + tape. As a bonus your son gets Popsicles.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Anesthesiologists dont need to make $400,000 per year. Sorry. 🙁

I wish you and your gf well, and affordable universal healthcare for all. I used to oppose it, but now I see no other option.

If its so easy, you do it. Physician salaries total 5% of the cost of healthcare in the US, you guys will never solve the problem of affordabiliity, because you dont even know where to look.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle


My g/f's mother used to be an anesthesiologist, unfortunately before they made so much money. Part of the huge salary of an anesthesiologist is due to medical malpractice insurance, which can hit $100k. This is one of those jobs that many people don't want to do, because of the high insurance and risk involved. Hence, the outsized-looking salaries.

"Affordable universal healthcare" would be great, and part of that would be to reduce the education costs and also the litigation risks.

The number if idiots in this thread is astounding, The salary of anesthesiologist's relative to inflation is down 80% the last 25 years. My colleagues were making 450K in 1980, theyre making 375K this year.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle


My g/f's mother used to be an anesthesiologist, unfortunately before they made so much money. Part of the huge salary of an anesthesiologist is due to medical malpractice insurance, which can hit $100k. This is one of those jobs that many people don't want to do, because of the high insurance and risk involved. Hence, the outsized-looking salaries.

"Affordable universal healthcare" would be great, and part of that would be to reduce the education costs and also the litigation risks.

The number if {sic} idiots in this thread is astounding, The salary of anesthesiologist's {sic} relative to inflation is down 80% the last 25 years. My colleagues were making 450K in 1980, theyre {sic} making 375K this year.

That's based on your (and your colleagues') experience. It's not the same everywhere.

Why the hostility? If you believe some of us are wrong, educate us.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
It's a tough situation. I agree that many of the salaries are too high. And many hospitals/medical facilities frequently screw the patient in terms of charges.

And I'm pretty sure the medical equipment companies frequently screw the facilities, so the buck has to get passed somehow.

Wait a minute, are you suggesting capitalism is merely a system where everybody is out to screw everybody else to get ahead? 😉

Valueing shareholder value over social benefit breeds corporate sociopathy.
And the Insurance Giants are Sociopaths.