Was Joseph McCarthy right?

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: shira
When the name "Joseph McCarthy" is mentioned, we immediately think of the gross abuses of civil liberties he justified in the name of fighting the communist threat.

That is what YOU immediately think of. I do not. But again, all of you who keep trying to blast me continue to put more into my statement than what is there and then ignore my statement about his tactics.

Meh, it's not surprising though. McCarthy is someone people love to hate on - especially our current socialist left in America. It seems only Bush can muster more hate from them than mentioning McCarthy.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: shira
When the name "Joseph McCarthy" is mentioned, we immediately think of the gross abuses of civil liberties he justified in the name of fighting the communist threat.

That is what YOU immediately think of. I do not. But again, all of you who keep trying to blast me continue to put more into my statement than what is there and then ignore my statement about his tactics.

Meh, it's not surprising though. McCarthy is someone people love to hate on - especially our current socialist left in America. It seems only Bush can muster more hate from them than mentioning McCarthy.

The guy earned his reputation. Only a Pro-Authoritarian would think otherwise

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: shira
When the name "Joseph McCarthy" is mentioned, we immediately think of the gross abuses of civil liberties he justified in the name of fighting the communist threat.

That is what YOU immediately think of. I do not. But again, all of you who keep trying to blast me continue to put more into my statement than what is there and then ignore my statement about his tactics.

Meh, it's not surprising though. McCarthy is someone people love to hate on - especially our current socialist left in America. It seems only Bush can muster more hate from them than mentioning McCarthy.

The guy earned his reputation. Only a Pro-Authoritarian would think otherwise

Sure, he earned scorn. I didn't say he didn't.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: shira
When the name "Joseph McCarthy" is mentioned, we immediately think of the gross abuses of civil liberties he justified in the name of fighting the communist threat.

That is what YOU immediately think of. I do not. But again, all of you who keep trying to blast me continue to put more into my statement than what is there and then ignore my statement about his tactics.

Meh, it's not surprising though. McCarthy is someone people love to hate on - especially our current socialist left in America. It seems only Bush can muster more hate from them than mentioning McCarthy.

The guy earned his reputation. Only a Pro-Authoritarian would think otherwise

Sure, he earned scorn. I didn't say he didn't.

So you're part of the "Socialist Left"?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: shira
When the name "Joseph McCarthy" is mentioned, we immediately think of the gross abuses of civil liberties he justified in the name of fighting the communist threat.

That is what YOU immediately think of. I do not. But again, all of you who keep trying to blast me continue to put more into my statement than what is there and then ignore my statement about his tactics.

Meh, it's not surprising though. McCarthy is someone people love to hate on - especially our current socialist left in America. It seems only Bush can muster more hate from them than mentioning McCarthy.

The guy earned his reputation. Only a Pro-Authoritarian would think otherwise

Sure, he earned scorn. I didn't say he didn't.

So you're part of the "Socialist Left"?

No. Try reading what I've posted.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: shira
When the name "Joseph McCarthy" is mentioned, we immediately think of the gross abuses of civil liberties he justified in the name of fighting the communist threat.

That is what YOU immediately think of. I do not. But again, all of you who keep trying to blast me continue to put more into my statement than what is there and then ignore my statement about his tactics.

Meh, it's not surprising though. McCarthy is someone people love to hate on - especially our current socialist left in America. It seems only Bush can muster more hate from them than mentioning McCarthy.

Why don't you tell us then what you immediately think of McCarthy? Because what I think of is a drunk grandstanding idiot who unwittingly made himself the scapegoat for all the abuses of the post-WWII Red Scare.

CAD... try listening to the arguments being made here, eh? When you and Coulter and some others on the right revise history by saying "McCarthy was correct that there were commies in govt. and only the socialist left hates on him," then you give the right a bad name. Really. It conjures up images of the ideological zealots who would destroy freedom in order to protect it, who would save us from the commies by making us just like them.

So tell us, what is this that he was supposedly "right" about?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: shira
When the name "Joseph McCarthy" is mentioned, we immediately think of the gross abuses of civil liberties he justified in the name of fighting the communist threat.

That is what YOU immediately think of. I do not. But again, all of you who keep trying to blast me continue to put more into my statement than what is there and then ignore my statement about his tactics.

Meh, it's not surprising though. McCarthy is someone people love to hate on - especially our current socialist left in America. It seems only Bush can muster more hate from them than mentioning McCarthy.

Why don't you tell us then what you immediately think of McCarthy? Because what I think of is a drunk grandstanding idiot who unwittingly made himself the scapegoat for all the abuses of the post-WWII Red Scare.

CAD... try listening to the arguments being made here, eh? When you and Coulter and some others on the right revise history by saying "McCarthy was correct that there were commies in govt. and only the socialist left hates on him," then you give the right a bad name. Really. It conjures up images of the ideological zealots who would destroy freedom in order to protect it, who would save us from the commies by making us just like them.

So tell us, what is this that he was supposedly "right" about?

I've already stated what he was right about, but you and the others continue to ignore what I've actually posted and arguing against positions and statements I have not made. I stand by my statements but realize you and others may have other opinions on the matter and love to use him as a punching bag.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: shira
When the name "Joseph McCarthy" is mentioned, we immediately think of the gross abuses of civil liberties he justified in the name of fighting the communist threat.

That is what YOU immediately think of. I do not. But again, all of you who keep trying to blast me continue to put more into my statement than what is there and then ignore my statement about his tactics.

Meh, it's not surprising though. McCarthy is someone people love to hate on - especially our current socialist left in America. It seems only Bush can muster more hate from them than mentioning McCarthy.

Why don't you tell us then what you immediately think of McCarthy? Because what I think of is a drunk grandstanding idiot who unwittingly made himself the scapegoat for all the abuses of the post-WWII Red Scare.

CAD... try listening to the arguments being made here, eh? When you and Coulter and some others on the right revise history by saying "McCarthy was correct that there were commies in govt. and only the socialist left hates on him," then you give the right a bad name. Really. It conjures up images of the ideological zealots who would destroy freedom in order to protect it, who would save us from the commies by making us just like them.

So tell us, what is this that he was supposedly "right" about?

I've already stated what he was right about, but you and the others continue to ignore what I've actually posted and arguing against positions and statements I have not made. I stand by my statements but realize you and others may have other opinions on the matter and love to use him as a punching bag.

The guy Deserves it.

 

[Tab]

Good God. I have never seen such a case of cognitive dissonance but hey at least you're good at something Cad!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Tab
Good God. I have never seen such a case of cognitive dissonance but hey at least you're good at something Cad!

Uh no. You must not know what cognitive dissonance is....OR you haven't read what I've posted. Thanks for playing though...

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: shira
When the name "Joseph McCarthy" is mentioned, we immediately think of the gross abuses of civil liberties he justified in the name of fighting the communist threat.

That is what YOU immediately think of. I do not. But again, all of you who keep trying to blast me continue to put more into my statement than what is there and then ignore my statement about his tactics.

Meh, it's not surprising though. McCarthy is someone people love to hate on - especially our current socialist left in America. It seems only Bush can muster more hate from them than mentioning McCarthy.

Why don't you tell us then what you immediately think of McCarthy? Because what I think of is a drunk grandstanding idiot who unwittingly made himself the scapegoat for all the abuses of the post-WWII Red Scare.

CAD... try listening to the arguments being made here, eh? When you and Coulter and some others on the right revise history by saying "McCarthy was correct that there were commies in govt. and only the socialist left hates on him," then you give the right a bad name. Really. It conjures up images of the ideological zealots who would destroy freedom in order to protect it, who would save us from the commies by making us just like them.

So tell us, what is this that he was supposedly "right" about?

I've already stated what he was right about, but you and the others continue to ignore what I've actually posted and arguing against positions and statements I have not made. I stand by my statements but realize you and others may have other opinions on the matter and love to use him as a punching bag.

The guy Deserves it.

Well I'm not sure if you've missed it, but people in America (not just the left, McCarthy is almost universally loathed) hate him for all the loads of things he did wrong. People love to hate on him because he did a lot of things that people hate.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I've already stated what he was right about, but you and the others continue to ignore what I've actually posted and arguing against positions and statements I have not made. I stand by my statements but realize you and others may have other opinions on the matter and love to use him as a punching bag.

All I could find in this thread from you on that is:

He was correct that there were commies in the gov't and around the US - which is what I stated.

And which I've already explained at least a dozen times over was not anything impressive. Because everybody already knew that!

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I've already stated what he was right about, but you and the others continue to ignore what I've actually posted and arguing against positions and statements I have not made. I stand by my statements but realize you and others may have other opinions on the matter and love to use him as a punching bag.

All I could find in this thread from you on that is:

He was correct that there were commies in the gov't and around the US - which is what I stated.

And which I've already explained at least a dozen times over was not anything impressive. Because everybody already knew that!

Good. Thanks for finally reading what I stated. What I don't get though is why people are fighting me on this if you/they "already knew that".

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I've already stated what he was right about, but you and the others continue to ignore what I've actually posted and arguing against positions and statements I have not made. I stand by my statements but realize you and others may have other opinions on the matter and love to use him as a punching bag.

All I could find in this thread from you on that is:

He was correct that there were commies in the gov't and around the US - which is what I stated.

And which I've already explained at least a dozen times over was not anything impressive. Because everybody already knew that!

Good. Thanks for finally reading what I stated. What I don't get though is why people are fighting me on this if you/they "already knew that".

Uh... have you actually read any of my posts in this thread?

Because I already answered that long ago. McCarthy's dog probably knew there were commie spies in the govt as well. God knows everyone else did. As I've already remarked on several times, he was a late-comer to the Red Scare. His sole claim to fame was that he said he had a list of spies working at the State Dept. Which he didn't. He just said that to attack the Truman administration (for supposedly being soft on the commie threat), and then he rode the wave from there until it crashed during Eisenhower's administration.

So what was he right about again?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I've already stated what he was right about, but you and the others continue to ignore what I've actually posted and arguing against positions and statements I have not made. I stand by my statements but realize you and others may have other opinions on the matter and love to use him as a punching bag.

All I could find in this thread from you on that is:

He was correct that there were commies in the gov't and around the US - which is what I stated.

And which I've already explained at least a dozen times over was not anything impressive. Because everybody already knew that!

Good. Thanks for finally reading what I stated. What I don't get though is why people are fighting me on this if you/they "already knew that".

Uh... have you actually read any of my posts in this thread?

Because I already answered that long ago. McCarthy's dog probably knew there were commie spies in the govt as well. God knows everyone else did. As I've already remarked on several times, he was a late-comer to the Red Scare. His sole claim to fame was that he said he had a list of spies working at the State Dept. Which he didn't. He just said that to attack the Truman administration (for supposedly being soft on the commie threat), and then he rode the wave from there until it crashed during Eisenhower's administration.

So what was he right about again?

Asked and answered.

 

[BeauJangles]

I'd say his ideas might have been well-intention but quickly steamrolled out of control as he started accusing everybody, particularly his enemies, of supposed communist affiliations.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Capitalizt
Mccarthy was proven right...There were plenty of commies in US government. That doesn't excuse his behavior though.

Proof
and more proof

Both you, CAD, and the OP seem to be making this same mistake. That there were Soviet spies in US govt does not prove McCarthy right, as that aspect of the Red Scare was never really in dispute. There had already been a number of high profile cases and HUAC was already in full swing prior to McCarthy's arrival on the scene.
What McCarthy did was say that he knew who these Soviet spies were ("I have a list!" -- when he didn't) and then proceeded to ruin the lives of thousands of innocent Americans with unsubstantiated allegations and witch hunts. In the end, he probably did more the help the Soviet's espionage efforts than anything else.
So please, how was he proven "right" except by some kind of twisted revisionist history that incorrectly portrays him as the lone voice of alarm against the commie threat?

No, that is not correct. I did not say his list was correct or anything like that. He was correct that there were commies in the gov't and around the US - which is what I stated. But yes(as I've already stated) his tactics weren't the best. However, just because you, I and others don't like the tactics he used does not mean he wasn't right.

Mainly this boils down to what you think, I think he was right about and you seem to want to embellish what I stated into something more than what was said.

Yeah there's a balance. If you look historically, I don't think you'll find anyone who denies that during the cold war, the communist/Soviet spy threat to the US was a genuine danger to national security, and that there was a real need to meet this real threat with real action.

McCarthy stands out because of his silly antics and incredibly counterproductive actions. It was an intelligence issue to be dealt with by intelligence experts, not a blowhard politician with specious morals and standards. Counterintel relies upon a number of factors, a prime one being : Never let your enemy see you as weak. Running around screaming about 'reds' and witch-hunting people who have nothing to do with Communism for the sake of political expedience is the opposite of appearing strong, resolute, and competent. The KGB/GRU scoffed at the sheer stupidity of McCarthy, and his divisive tactics wasted a huge amount of energy and money in the process.

So I don't know what the point of this whole thing is. It boils down to several truths.

(1)- The USSR maintained massive global networks of spies, illegals, assets, etc.

(2)- The USA, being the 'prime adversary', received the bulk of Soviet Intel/Counterintel resources.

(3)- During McCarthy's era, it was undoubtedly true that there were many levels of Soviet infiltration at varying levels of US business, social, and government groups.

(4)- McCarthy's witch hunts and public spectacle produced a hugely negative result, he should have left the spy game to the experts.

:thumbsup: well said.

In the last fifteen years we've only begun to find out how incompetent our counter-intelligence was regarding the soviets.

MacCarthy lacked the training, expertise, and knowledge to be any better at catching infiltrators or at stopping the 'spread' of communism. Ultimately, stopping these infiltrators became his personal ticket to the top and he used it relentlessly against his enemies.

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
I've already stated what he was right about, but you and the others continue to ignore what I've actually posted and arguing against positions and statements I have not made. I stand by my statements but realize you and others may have other opinions on the matter and love to use him as a punching bag.

All I could find in this thread from you on that is:

He was correct that there were commies in the gov't and around the US - which is what I stated.

And which I've already explained at least a dozen times over was not anything impressive. Because everybody already knew that!

Good. Thanks for finally reading what I stated. What I don't get though is why people are fighting me on this if you/they "already knew that".

People are fighting you because McCarthy might have believed there were spies within the US government - which was 100% correct. What he was dead wrong about, though, was both identifying and removing those spies from the United States.

It's like saying George Bush was right that AQ carried out 9/11 and, therefore, he was right about invading Iraq, too.