Was Bose always Bad

[The-Noid]

I wouldn't really rate the LSI-25 that high for that matter. The simple LSI9 is a better speaker IMO. You can also get some lower range B & W's that will sound significantly better for that pricepoint.

Overall, Bose are just not worth the money as others have said. They have very small amps and their subwoofers don't produce near enough bass.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
I wouldn't really rate the LSI-25 that high for that matter. The simple LSI9 is a better speaker IMO. You can also get some lower range B & W's that will sound significantly better for that pricepoint.

Overall, Bose are just not worth the money as others have said. They have very small amps and their subwoofers don't produce near enough bass.

And It's also lacking any response in certain frequency ranges.

 

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
I wouldn't really rate the LSI-25 that high for that matter. The simple LSI9 is a better speaker IMO. You can also get some lower range B & W's that will sound significantly better for that pricepoint.

Overall, Bose are just not worth the money as others have said. They have very small amps and their subwoofers don't produce near enough bass.

And It's also lacking any response in certain frequency ranges.

Like the bass frequency range that subwoofers typically are designed for :laugh:

 

[WaTaGuMp]

The oldie but goodie Bose link.



http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: Loreena
That's a damping factor killer there.

Those cheap comp drivers are nothing more than a small aluminum diaphragm surrounded by injection molded plastic. No engineering at all. Then again that's what their cheap computer speakers use. Paul Klipsch is rolling in his grave right now!

The real compression drivers, on the other hand, are quite good indeed.

Paul Klipsch never actually made a cheap speaker - less expensive than Altecs, maybe, but vastly more than a similarly sized pair of Utahs (which are now sold under the Pyle brand, curiously enough.)

And they still make the old Paul Klipsch designs, too, with minimal changes.

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Interesting....some audio mag guy listened to Mac's top of the line setup a couple years ago and said it was the best sound he'd ever heard. I've never heard anyone claim what you do about their amps......which are legendary. But that's why there's lots of different companies out there. Something for everybody.

Transformers cause harmonic distortion and noise. Any EE will tell you this. Also, that same audio magazine is likely harping on about the benefits of $1,000 MIT cables.

If you want "old school" sound, a much better option is an output-transformer-less (OTL) tube amp, which combines the soft clipping and desirable low-order harmonics with a tube amp with the many advantages of not having an output transformer. The downside of an OTL amp is that they require enough high-power output tubes to light a Christmas tree, and as such, cost a fortune.

If you want to hear a good amp, the stuff Nelson Pass designs is amongst the worlds' best. Halcro is supposed to be excellent, too, but nobody can really afford it.

Originally posted by: Googer


That's correct. And rumor has it that BOSE spends very little $$ on manufacturing.

Shorting rings, vented pole pieces, well-braced enclosures, complicated crossovers, rare-earth magnets, and composite or light alloy cones....these are all things that you won't find on anything Bose sells. There's no "rumor" about it - Bose speakers are roughly on par with any other HTIB speakers because they're built the same way.

 

[smoothvirus]

Back in the mid 1990's I worked in an electronics store selling TV's, stereos, and appliances. We sold Bose speakers and after setting them up and comparing them to some JBL speakers we had, I very quickly figured out what everyone else is saying - decent speakers but way overpriced.

Bose has some of the best marketing in the business. I used to have customers come in all the time telling me how fantastic Bose was - based solely on the TV commercials they had watched. And it continues to this day, I just purchased a 50" plasma tv and my co-workers and friends are telling me to get a Bose home theater setup because they like the TV commercials so much.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

I gotta wonder why some car makers STILL put Bose in some pretty high end cars.

 

[The-Noid]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Paratus
We have a pair of Bose 201 Series III shelf speakers from the early nineties. They sound pretty decent for music.

I'm just curious.

Yeah. Going back all the way to the 1970's Stereophile has never given them a nice review. For what Bose Asks for it's speakers, you can get an entire Axiom 7.1 or 7.2 EPIC 80 system that is true Audiophile grade.

If small speakers are your thing and size matter more than sound, then there are a ton of better alternatives to bose for much less money. Klipsch, Athena, Tannoy, Paradigm, and Axiom Midi system along with lots of others.

At one time Best Buy used to have Bose's top of the line system next to Klipsch's cheapest $500 sub and 400 satts (could be had for 50% on sale). The sales guy (not your average BB ignoramus) told me most people come in with their hearts and minds firmly planted on BOSE and after a quick side by side comparision and audition come out saving thousands of dollars and buying the Klipsch Synergy10/Quintet combination.

A few months later, I went to visit him again and the BOSE rep made them move the display far away from any competing products.

A.) Axiom is not a great brand quality wise it is just for home theatres that want a ton of bass.
B.) You need serious hardware to power those speakers at 4 ohms. The average person is not going to wire a 30 amp circuit into their home theatre room and buy a 300-400 wpc amp. Those are some of the hardest speakers to power and make sound good in the world and you really need to know what you are doing.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Paratus
We have a pair of Bose 201 Series III shelf speakers from the early nineties. They sound pretty decent for music.

I'm just curious.

Yeah. Going back all the way to the 1970's Stereophile has never given them a nice review. For what Bose Asks for it's speakers, you can get an entire Axiom 7.1 or 7.2 EPIC 80 system that is true Audiophile grade.

If small speakers are your thing and size matter more than sound, then there are a ton of better alternatives to bose for much less money. Klipsch, Athena, Tannoy, Paradigm, and Axiom Midi system along with lots of others.

At one time Best Buy used to have Bose's top of the line system next to Klipsch's cheapest $500 sub and 400 satts (could be had for 50% on sale). The sales guy (not your average BB ignoramus) told me most people come in with their hearts and minds firmly planted on BOSE and after a quick side by side comparision and audition come out saving thousands of dollars and buying the Klipsch Synergy10/Quintet combination.

A few months later, I went to visit him again and the BOSE rep made them move the display far away from any competing products.

A.) Axiom is not a great brand quality wise it is just for home theatres that want a ton of bass.
B.) You need serious hardware to power those speakers at 4 ohms. The average person is not going to wire a 30 amp circuit into their home theatre room and buy a 300-400 wpc amp. Those are some of the hardest speakers to power and make sound good in the world and you really need to know what you are doing.

My Integra DTR-7.6 can drive them just fine. And for your getting a better system than bose for much less or the same amount of money. Also AXIOM has in the LAB, a small speaker set up that will compete with BOSE but obviously for less money.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
I gotta wonder why some car makers STILL put Bose in some pretty high end cars.

Ever visit a BMW dealer? They ask you what brand of Audio Equipment you use and what brands you own and hold in high regard. The BOSE name is a premium moniker and anyone building a premium car wants to be associated with the same level of prestige that BOSE has.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Paratus
We have a pair of Bose 201 Series III shelf speakers from the early nineties. They sound pretty decent for music.

I'm just curious.

Yeah. Going back all the way to the 1970's Stereophile has never given them a nice review. For what Bose Asks for it's speakers, you can get an entire Axiom 7.1 or 7.2 EPIC 80 system that is true Audiophile grade.

If small speakers are your thing and size matter more than sound, then there are a ton of better alternatives to bose for much less money. Klipsch, Athena, Tannoy, Paradigm, and Axiom Midi system along with lots of others.

At one time Best Buy used to have Bose's top of the line system next to Klipsch's cheapest $500 sub and 400 satts (could be had for 50% on sale). The sales guy (not your average BB ignoramus) told me most people come in with their hearts and minds firmly planted on BOSE and after a quick side by side comparision and audition come out saving thousands of dollars and buying the Klipsch Synergy10/Quintet combination.

A few months later, I went to visit him again and the BOSE rep made them move the display far away from any competing products.

A.) Axiom is not a great brand quality wise it is just for home theatres that want a ton of bass.
B.) You need serious hardware to power those speakers at 4 ohms. The average person is not going to wire a 30 amp circuit into their home theatre room and buy a 300-400 wpc amp. Those are some of the hardest speakers to power and make sound good in the world and you really need to know what you are doing.

Axiom...a ton of bass....where did you get that impression? From all the reviews I've read, they're bookshelf speakers are accurate and maybe slightly "bright" but not usually descibed as bassy. At least in the past, their subs left something to be desired for their pricepoint.

I've never read any complaints about axiom's quality for the money.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
I gotta wonder why some car makers STILL put Bose in some pretty high end cars.

Ever visit a BMW dealer? They ask you what brand of Audio Equipment you use and what brands you own and hold in high regard. The BOSE name is a premium moniker and anyone building a premium car wants to be associated with the same level of prestige that BOSE has.

Hmm so what if I go tell them I use NAD, Paradigm, Energy and Martin Logan, I wonder what they would respond with.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy

B.) You need serious hardware to power those speakers at 4 ohms. The average person is not going to wire a 30 amp circuit into their home theatre room and buy a 300-400 wpc amp. Those are some of the hardest speakers to power and make sound good in the world and you really need to know what you are doing.

If you need a 30A circuit for 300-400wpc your amp has serious efficiency issues!

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: Yoxxy

B.) You need serious hardware to power those speakers at 4 ohms. The average person is not going to wire a 30 amp circuit into their home theatre room and buy a 300-400 wpc amp. Those are some of the hardest speakers to power and make sound good in the world and you really need to know what you are doing.

If you need a 30A circuit for 300-400wpc your amp has serious efficiency issues!

Note, 4Ohm are only for the M80 front channel speakers. Two, a speaker is rated for a certain wattage, 400w in Axiom's case does not mean that it needs a 400 watt AMP. You can easily get away with just 200 and be happy. It is speaker sensitivity (or efficient) that matters more than power handling and the axioms are very efficient.

Power handling only states the amount of energy load the speakers can take and it's measured in RMS or Root Mean Square.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
I gotta wonder why some car makers STILL put Bose in some pretty high end cars.

Ever visit a BMW dealer? They ask you what brand of Audio Equipment you use and what brands you own and hold in high regard. The BOSE name is a premium moniker and anyone building a premium car wants to be associated with the same level of prestige that BOSE has.

Hmm so what if I go tell them I use NAD, Paradigm, Energy and Martin Logan, I wonder what they would respond with.

It's more of a survey. When you visit the dealer, they are taking customer opinions on their tastes. I believe the information is taken in to account when they design the next car.

Lexus (toyota) has Mark Levinson.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Googer

Note, 4Ohm are only for the M80 front channel speakers. Two, a speaker is rated for a certain wattage, 400w in Axiom's case does not mean that it needs a 400 watt AMP. You can easily get away with just 200 and be happy. It is speaker sensitivity (or efficient) that matters more than power handling and the axioms are very efficient.

Power handling only states the amount of energy load the speakers can take and it's measured in RMS or Root Mean Square.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with speaker sensitivity. Additionally there is only 3dB difference between 200 and 400 watts of power. A 30A 120VAC (who uses 120V these days for high power stuff?) can do MUCH better than 400W continuous power. Digital switching amplifiers with APFC can literally match power drawn from the mains to what the speakers receive!

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Yoxxy

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Paratus
We have a pair of Bose 201 Series III shelf speakers from the early nineties. They sound pretty decent for music.

I'm just curious.

Yeah. Going back all the way to the 1970's Stereophile has never given them a nice review. For what Bose Asks for it's speakers, you can get an entire Axiom 7.1 or 7.2 EPIC 80 system that is true Audiophile grade.

If small speakers are your thing and size matter more than sound, then there are a ton of better alternatives to bose for much less money. Klipsch, Athena, Tannoy, Paradigm, and Axiom Midi system along with lots of others.

At one time Best Buy used to have Bose's top of the line system next to Klipsch's cheapest $500 sub and 400 satts (could be had for 50% on sale). The sales guy (not your average BB ignoramus) told me most people come in with their hearts and minds firmly planted on BOSE and after a quick side by side comparision and audition come out saving thousands of dollars and buying the Klipsch Synergy10/Quintet combination.

A few months later, I went to visit him again and the BOSE rep made them move the display far away from any competing products.

A.) Axiom is not a great brand quality wise it is just for home theatres that want a ton of bass.
B.) You need serious hardware to power those speakers at 4 ohms. The average person is not going to wire a 30 amp circuit into their home theatre room and buy a 300-400 wpc amp. Those are some of the hardest speakers to power and make sound good in the world and you really need to know what you are doing.

Axiom...a ton of bass....where did you get that impression? From all the reviews I've read, they're bookshelf speakers are accurate and maybe slightly "bright" but not usually descibed as bassy. At least in the past, their subs left something to be desired for their pricepoint.

I've never read any complaints about axiom's quality for the money.

Bose's lifestyle 48 has an MSRP of $4,000

For half that you can get in to an Axiom's best EPIC 80-350 setup and still have money left over for a receiver or new plasma tv.


Bose lifestyle 48. (Note: it's onsale- $500 off)


Better performing for LE$$
Depending on your subwoofer options- Axiom EPIC 80: $2,884.20 to 3,883.60

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Rubycon

Originally posted by: Googer

Note, 4Ohm are only for the M80 front channel speakers. Two, a speaker is rated for a certain wattage, 400w in Axiom's case does not mean that it needs a 400 watt AMP. You can easily get away with just 200 and be happy. It is speaker sensitivity (or efficient) that matters more than power handling and the axioms are very efficient.

Power handling only states the amount of energy load the speakers can take and it's measured in RMS or Root Mean Square.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with speaker sensitivity. Additionally there is only 3dB difference between 200 and 400 watts of power. A 30A 120VAC (who uses 120V these days for high power stuff?) can do MUCH better than 400W continuous power. Digital switching amplifiers with APFC can literally match power drawn from the mains to what the speakers receive!

What I was trying to add to your statement and counter the statement made by Yoxxy was that you don't necessarily need a Receiver rated for the full power handling capabilities of a given speaker; especially if it's of very high sensitivity.

 

[The-Noid]

http://www.adcom.com/prod/shop...oducts.asp?prodid=1146

Again you are going to need to still buy a pre-amp/processor/amp and if you actually want to make those speakers sing from all the reviews you need an amp capable of 200w @ 4ohm x 7. You are talking about another $5-7k to get that system up and running.

Most amps that do 200+ wpc into 7 channels or 5 require atleast a 20A fuse, some require 30A.

Digital amps are also crazy expensive for what you get and do ok for low-end frequencies but that is about it. To date I have only seen good monoblocks and two channels not many that are 5-6-7 channels...as the pwm gets extremely hot.

There is also no receiver on earth that is going to power the Axioms especially when they dip into 2-3-4 ohms as reviews state. The 5806 has the best chance but even 100+ wpc in 4 ohms and it goes into overpower mode and shuts off.

I think there is a new NAD receiver that is coming that will be 125wpc into 4 ohms, but who knows with this economic climate.

Speaking of Bose my Audi and Infiniti both have Bose my Lexus has Mark Levinson, it is a car that is all Bose deserves to be in.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
http://www.adcom.com/prod/shop...oducts.asp?prodid=1146

Again you are going to need to still buy a pre-amp/processor/amp and if you actually want to make those speakers sing from all the reviews you need an amp capable of 200w @ 4ohm x 7. You are talking about another $5-7k to get that system up and running.

Most amps that do 200+ wpc into 7 channels or 5 require atleast a 20A fuse, some require 30A.

Digital amps are also crazy expensive for what you get and do ok for low-end frequencies but that is about it. To date I have only seen good monoblocks and two channels not many that are 5-6-7 channels...as the pwm gets extremely hot.

There is also no receiver on earth that is going to power the Axioms especially when they dip into 2-3-4 ohms as reviews state. The 5806 has the best chance but even 100+ wpc in 4 ohms and it goes into overpower mode and shuts off.

I think there is a new NAD receiver that is coming that will be 125wpc into 4 ohms, but who knows with this economic climate.

Speaking of Bose my Audi and Infiniti both have Bose my Lexus has Mark Levinson, it is a car that is all Bose deserves to be in.

That is very nice but not necessary. A high quality reciever from Integra, Pioneer Elite, Yamaha, Outlaw Audio, Anthem, Sherwood-Newcastle, etc will do just fine and produce acceptable results.

 

[The-Noid]

Pio elite overloads at 25w on 4 ohms. Integra does a bit better and can do 45wpc.

You are recoensimg something you don't full comprehend.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
Pio elite overloads at 25w on 4 ohms. Integra does a bit better and can do 45wpc.

You are recoensimg something you don't full comprehend.

...

Please post proof of your claims

 

[Rubycon]

Digital amps so-so in bass?

:laugh:

Ok I admit I have no experience in home audio. But pro OTOH...

It makes little sense to have more than two channels in a box unless you're going mainstream/entry level middle ground like a receiver, etc. Most amp racks will be loaded with 2 channel amps and nearly all can drive difficult 2 ohm loads.

RE: makes-

I have a laptop with ALTEC LANSING speakers. They sound like sheet compared to a real AL speaker. Just because the famous name is there does not mean it's good - at all!

 

[The-Noid]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
Pio elite overloads at 25w on 4 ohms. Integra does a bit better and can do 45wpc.

You are recoensimg something you don't full comprehend.

...

Please post proof of your claims

The 4 ohm review of the Pioneer Elite was in Home Theatre mag when they released the new lineup of SC05-07 and 09, should be around November or so if memory serves me right. They drove a full setup of 4 Polk LSi-15s and a LSiC.

As for the Integra it actually has a 4 Ohm Mode on its newest receivers. Once WPC hits > 45w at 4-ohm it caps the amount of output as to not overheat. The Integra's amps weigh about 15 pounds more than the Pio Elite as well. 45 lbs compared to 64, but some of that is the Reon chip heatsink as well.

I was also unaware outlaw even made a receiver they make pre/pro's now and have a really good one coming out next spring, but as for receivers I think they are EOL.

The ZX-11 can power 2 front speakers with 75w at 4-ohm, but you are paying enough you should get more than that.

NAD has something on the design bench, but they will most likely be late to the party.

I can not stress enough, making recommendations like this is
a.) going to give you horrible sound and most likely clipping
b.) a fire hazard for you and everyone around you.

 

[The-Noid]

Ruby is also right on driving multiple channels. I purchased an Adcom 5 channel x 400w into 4 ohms just because I do not want to deal with an extremely large rack and my speakers are not incredibly hungry.

The Axioms are significantly hungrier, but having said that if you came into my HT you would probably pick the B & W's over that Axiom setup. It is not about how much you can make the room pound it is about how clear and colorful the sound is.

I mean if you just want the place to pound, think about buying these. http://cgi.ebay.com/HiVi-Swans...3A16|39%3A1|240%3A1318