Was AMD's Small Die strategy a huge mistake?

[tviceman]

AMD's small die strategy was not a huge mistake. They have not fallen way behind. Everything is as competitive now as it's ever been.

GK100 wasn't doable. They can barely do GK104.

I think in the end that AMD can't afford the setbacks that nVidia has suffered through with Fermi, and now Kepler.

THIS JUST IN:

GK104 is barely doable (despite having 26 products available to purchase right now on newegg) and Kepler has suffered setbacks. Nvidia is lucky they know how to rip customers off, otherwise Kepler's setbacks would have bankrupted the company.

 

[GotNoRice]

gk104 was not going to be their top chip so it was pretty stripped down. once they saw that gk104 with higher clocks could roll with the 7970, it become their official top chip. if the 7970 would have been a faster card then we would have no gtx680 at this time.

If you have any facts to back up these rumors you are spreading, feel free to post them.

Or maybe you'll just post another rolleyes smiley, that's certainly the easy way out when someone calls you out for being wrong.

If there's anything worthy of rolling eyes, it's people who are gullible enough to be taken in by tabloid-level gossip.

Again, if you have ANY real information about Nvidia's product strategy, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.

 

[Dark Shroud]

Imho,

Small die/sweet spot strategy was certainly nice -- small die/premium pricing strategy is not.

So who is that a slight against?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

If you have any facts to back up these rumors you are spreading, feel free to post them.

Or maybe you'll just post another rolleyes smiley, that's certainly the easy way out when someone calls you out for being wrong.

If there's anything worthy of rolling eyes, it's people who are gullible enough to be taken in by tabloid-level gossip.

Again, if you have ANY real information about Nvidia's product strategy, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.

Well you own a 680 so I'm guessing you're just putting fingers in your ears while yelling nananananananananana anyways.

Everything about GK104 is mid-range, expect the price. Nobody knows where GK110 or 100 are or if they'll ever come to consumers.

However GK104 is a mid-range design from Nvidia sporting the worst performance increase we've seen in at least 8 years.

 

[toyota]

If you have any facts to back up these rumors you are spreading, feel free to post them.

Or maybe you'll just post another rolleyes smiley, that's certainly the easy way out when someone calls you out for being wrong.

If there's anything worthy of rolling eyes, it's people who are gullible enough to be taken in by tabloid-level gossip.

Again, if you have ANY real information about Nvidia's product strategy, I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.

oh the irony. if you actually think gk104 was intended to be their top end chip from the get go then you are beyond ignorant on the matter.

 

[f1sherman]

Hard to say really. It didn't earn them lot of money, but they did gain market share because of it.

Getting steamrolled for 10 years in pro market, without any particular reason, is what i would call 'a huge mistake'

 

[sm625]

The 4850 was and still is an amazing gpu. All those 8800GTS/GTX, 79XX GeForce, and X19XX radeons are all obsolete and pretty much useless right now. But the 4850/4870 is alive and well. It was so successful that the secondhand market is flooded with these things for dirt cheap. It uses a lot of power compared to a 7750, but its still tolerable for a budget gamer. Combined with a G620 or i3-21xx, you can game for under 150 watts.

 

[Olikan]

small die strategy worked well when amd was fighting fermi...

now that nvidia catched up in perf/mm², the startegy just don't work anymore...
we will see the >500mm² again, from amd and nvidia...probably in the next generation

 

[StrangerGuy]

The 4850 was and still is an amazing gpu. All those 8800GTS/GTX, 79XX GeForce, and X19XX radeons are all obsolete and pretty much useless right now. But the 4850/4870 is alive and well. It was so successful that the secondhand market is flooded with these things for dirt cheap. It uses a lot of power compared to a 7750, but its still tolerable for a budget gamer. Combined with a G620 or i3-21xx, you can game for under 150 watts.

4870 would have been the ultimate GPU in terms of perf/$/useful life if it had idle power management.

 

[GotNoRice]

Well you own a 680 so I'm guessing you're just putting fingers in your ears while yelling nananananananananana anyways.

Yeah god forbid I actually own the hardware we are discussing. Since we're "guessing" here, I'd "guess" that you are simply butt-hurt that a single GK104 dominates the power-sucking heat monster 470s you are running. I'm sure that spreading rumors about it being "mid-range" has a soothing effect on your tarnished ego. It's okay, you don't have to feel bad just because your videocards are slow now.

Everything about GK104 is mid-range, expect the price. Nobody knows where GK110 or 100 are or if they'll ever come to consumers.

So apparently it's still a "mid-range" card regardless of if a faster card ever actually comes out? It sounds like your definition of "mid-range" changes to fit your argument at this point.

oh the irony. if you actually think gk104 was intended to be their top end chip from the get go then you are beyond ignorant on the matter.

"Ironic" would be calling me "ignorant" for asking for facts while you embrace and regurgitate unsubstantiated rumors and gossip.

Again, I'm not claiming that it is or isn't a mid-range card, though that didn't stop you from jumping to conclusions obviously. I'm simply looking for facts here, something that you are (unsurprisingly) unable to provide. I wonder why? hmm...

 

[SirPauly]

So who is that a slight against?

Substantial and significant node and arches -- yet receive more-so evolutionary and incremental price/performance.

 

[thilanliyan]

It's okay, you don't have to feel bad just because your videocards are slow now.

Should not have gone there...now you will feel the wrath of the hellspawns!!!

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Yeah god forbid I actually own the hardware we are discussing. Since we're "guessing" here, I'd "guess" that you are simply butt-hurt that a single GK104 dominates the power-sucking heat monster 470s you are running.

Says the guy with a 5GHz processor and a 1kw PSU... lol that doesn't even make sense.

I'm not really sure what owning a physical sample has to do with anything, did you take it apart and x-ray the die to have first hand experience over what we've seen from reviews who did it? I still don't see how that would matter.

My card runs pretty cool actually, can't imagine it's draining that much power since it does run cool and with low fan speed. Oh you were talking about my Tri-SLI water cooled setup? Whatever works, it costs as much as a single 680 and delivers twice the performance.


Apparently you don't follow tech? If GK104 is high end then Nvidia went backwards performance wise about 70%. As in the 680 is about 30% faster than the 580 when it should have been 80%+.

 

[GotNoRice]

Says the guy with a 5GHz processor and a 1kw PSU... lol that doesn't even make sense.

I've had this PSU since 2008 and it's seen a lot of different hardware over the years.

I'm not really sure what owning a physical sample has to do with anything, did you take it apart and x-ray the die to have first hand experience over what we've seen from reviews who did it? I still don't see how that would matter.

If you re-read my posts you'll see that I never actually made any claims about the GTX680 one way or another. All I did was ask for facts, and for people to substantiate what appear to be rumors. Does it offend you when people don't simply take you for your word?

My card runs pretty cool actually, can't imagine it's draining that much power since it does run cool and with low fan speed. Oh you were talking about my Tri-SLI water cooled setup? Whatever works, it costs as much as a single 680 and delivers twice the performance.

Cool story bro.

Apparently you don't follow tech? If GK104 is high end then Nvidia went backwards performance wise about 70%. As in the 680 is about 30% faster than the 580 when it should have been 80%+.

Sure I follow tech, but I guess I missed the part that explained why GK104 is mid-range (again, not talking about rumors here). Please feel free to fill me in on what I missed and link me to some hard data.

 

[thilanliyan]

Apparently you don't follow tech? If GK104 is high end then Nvidia went backwards performance wise about 70%. As in the 680 is about 30% faster than the 580 when it should have been 80%+.

7970 should have been like 200% faster than a 6970...but ya know...they're saving that card for when the high end Kepler arrives...7970 is just their mid-range. It's a fact!!...although I have no credible sources to back that up.

I don't know one way or another but some people are just asking for a credible link stating that GK104 is just a mid-range product. Many people state it, but no one has proof. The argument is just, "all their previous launches have been like this where a X04 product is mid-range". Is that proof enough? I don't know.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

All I did was ask for facts, and for people to substantiate what appear to be rumors.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/

by Ryan Smith on 3/22/2012 9:00:00 AM Where have you been?

With Kepler what we’re ultimately looking at is a die shrunk distillation of Fermi, and in the case of GK104 that’s specifically a distillation of GF114 rather than GF110.

$500 for a GTX 460, how do you feel about that?



7970 is a different story, it's a new design for AMD with GCN. It's not even close to the same thing we're discussing here, which is Fermi without hotclocks and the subsequent twice doubled core count to give the generational boost as well as make up for the lack of HCs.

 

[GotNoRice]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/

by Ryan Smith on 3/22/2012 9:00:00 AM Where have you been?

I don't see anything in that article that states GK104 means mid-range. It would make sense for their new card to be based more on what they learned from the 560Ti as that was an very successful design for them. Compute has thus-far been highly underutilized while there has also been a renewed focus on efficiency.

$500 for a GTX 460, how do you feel about that?

For being a "GTX460", it's funny that it takes three of your 470s to equal it's performance.

7970 is a different story, it's a new design for AMD with GCN. It's not even close to the same thing we're discussing here, which is Fermi without hotclocks and the subsequent twice doubled core count to give the generational boost as well as make up for the lack of HCs.

Does any of that matter to the end-user considering that it's a slower card than the GTX680 in just about everything?

 

[toyota]

I don't see anything in that article that states GK104 means mid-range. It would make sense for their new card to be based more on what they learned from the 560Ti as that was an very successful design for them. Compute has thus-far been highly underutilized while there has also been a renewed focus on efficiency.



For being a "GTX460", it's funny that it takes three of your 470s to equal it's performance.



Does any of that matter to the end-user considering that it's a slower card than the GTX680 in just about everything?

3 470s to match a 680? um even 2 470s will match or sometimes beat a gtx680 if they scale great.

EVERYTHING about gk104, including its very code name, screams 560ti replacement.

 

[ShintaiDK]

$500 for a GTX 460, how do you feel about that?

7970 is a different story, it's a new design for AMD with GCN. It's not even close to the same thing we're discussing here, which is Fermi without hotclocks and the subsequent twice doubled core count to give the generational boost as well as make up for the lack of HCs.

Im confused here. Are you saying paying 500$ for a GTX680 that beat the HD7970 in the holy triangle is bad because its...refined Fermi? While on the same side basicly saying the initial 550$ for the HD7970 was ok due to its being new CGN?

Really?

Besides this thread is pretty wierd. I guess its fueled when sensationalist Charlie sprewed BS about how bad diesizes are. Because nobody cared about diesizes before that.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

3 470s to match a 680? um even 2 470s will match or sometimes beat a gtx680 if they scale great.

EVERYTHING about gk104, including its very code name, screams 560ti replacement.

3 overclocked 470s to match OC'ed 680/7970 SLI/CF, two 470s easily beats both cards in single configurations.

Im confused here. Are you saying paying 500$ for a GTX680 that beat the HD7970 in the holy triangle is bad because its...refined Fermi? While on the same side basicly saying the initial 550$ for the HD7970 was ok due to its being new CGN?

Really?

Besides this thread is pretty wierd. I guess its fueled when sensationalist Charlie sprewed BS about how bad diesizes are. Because nobody cared about diesizes before that.

No I'm simply stating GK104 is a mid-range design.

The 7970 is not based directly on the 6970 or 5870, it's their first attempt at a real GPU.

While the 680 was derived from Fermi, with modifications and the obligatory SP jump we've come to expect (it's a bit confusing for some since they dropped hotclocks they doubled SP twice instead of the typical once), it did so only with the GF114 die so far. We still haven't seen the same jump from GF110, which is the high end part.

 

[Dark Shroud]

Does any of that matter to the end-user considering that it's a slower card than the GTX680 in just about everything?

Except the GTX 680 doesn't beat the HD 7970 in just about everything. Especially when you get to higher resolutions.

 

[Genx87]

I dont think their die size strategy was a mistake. It was their lack of dev relations that has hurt them.

 

[Siberian]

I dont think their die size strategy was a mistake. It was their lack of dev relations that has hurt them.

Their drivers are why people generally avoid their cards. It seems like they are trying so hard to be like NVIDIA, but that's probably never going to happen.

 

[Anarchist420]

I dont think their die size strategy was a mistake. It was their lack of dev relations that has hurt them.

Agreed.

 

[thilanliyan]

Their drivers are why people generally avoid their cards. It seems like they are trying so hard to be like NVIDIA, but that's probably never going to happen.

Do most people run CF/SLI?

I don't think so and in that case, avoiding AMD because of perceived driver issues should not be happening. Multi GPU I don't have much experience with but I have heard of CF having issues.

I run single cards mostly and have not had any showstopper bugs from either camp. People avoiding AMD because of "driver issues" are generally living in the past when they did have driver issues. Of course there ARE those who simply have a preference for one brand over the other, and nV has better market presence...