Warren Buffett on Gov't Intervention

[LegendKiller]

A fifth grader could take a look at a 6 or 9 month chart of damn near any commodity and tell you are completely full of shit. You have yet to address that wee issue in your argument and have instead relied on "but the government says its not so".

Tell ya what, I'll play ball. Who exactly is eating the increased cost of raw materials that go into the stuff we buy? The market is on a tear so profits expected future profits must be good, you claim that stuff is not more expensive, and yet the commodities are still higher than a giraffes ass. Please explain, in small words for me if you don't mind, exactly how that can be.

Because commodities aren't prone to short-term speculation.

Oil @ 147...


As far as Buffett. As people have said, the dude lives in a cheap house he bought decades ago. He wears the same clothes for years and years, till they are threadbare. Even if he lost 90% of his wealth, instantly, if every company BRK owns, lost 90% of their wealth instantly (coke, DQ, Clayton Homes, Fruit of a Loom, Geico, Sees Candies, Justin boots, Boorsheims, Zales, Nebraska Furniture Mart, Goldman, GE, Wells...etc) he's *STILL* be worth ~3bn, about how much he hasn't pledged to charity.

To think that he's saying this for himself, is utterly ridiculous. He's been saying that we need MORE taxes (Cap Gains, Income, and Gift), MORE regulation, MORE oversight...etc.

He's been called a traitor to his "class" for decades now.

You guys are a bunch of fucking short-sighted imbeciles.

 

[bamacre]

It was a poor crop yield year for the world. We know this.

When you can grow copper, silver, and gold, you make sure you let me know.

 

[fskimospy]

The only ones here looking dumb are those who are giving all credibility to government-produced charts even when reality disagrees. It's like a Christian saying the earth is 6000 years old, the proof being the bible.

Actually no, accepting credible estimates used by economists and interested organizations all across planet earth is not the same as being a young earth creationist.

 

[Darwin333]

Of course what's funny about that is even if you take the economist's numbers over the US government's, their explanation for food increases have absolutely ZERO to do with the fed intervening in the market here in the US.

(of course this is why food and energy are excluded from the CPI, but hey, who's counting?)

Gee, why would they include those completely non-essential things in their official inflation numbers? Who cares about that stuff when recreation, apparel, and household furnishing is cheaper? Hell, with all the great paying jobs out there you would think that stuff would be flying off the shelves.

 

[fskimospy]

Gee, why would they include those completely non-essential things in their official inflation numbers? Who cares about that stuff when recreation, apparel, and household furnishing is cheaper? Hell, with all the great paying jobs out there you would think that stuff would be flying off the shelves.

They ARE included in their inflation numbers, but excluded from CORE inflation because of their highly volatile nature and the fact that they are subject to external pressures, therefore telling us little about how our economy is actually doing.

All this information is freely available to you if you simply decided to educate yourself.

 

[Darwin333]

Because commodities aren't prone to short-term speculation.

Oil @ 147...


As far as Buffett. As people have said, the dude lives in a cheap house he bought decades ago. He wears the same clothes for years and years, till they are threadbare. Even if he lost 90% of his wealth, instantly, if every company BRK owns, lost 90% of their wealth instantly (coke, DQ, Clayton Homes, Fruit of a Loom, Geico, Sees Candies, Justin boots, Boorsheims, Zales, Nebraska Furniture Mart, Goldman, GE, Wells...etc) he's *STILL* be worth ~3bn, about how much he hasn't pledged to charity.

To think that he's saying this for himself, is utterly ridiculous. He's been saying that we need MORE taxes (Cap Gains, Income, and Gift), MORE regulation, MORE oversight...etc.

He's been called a traitor to his "class" for decades now.

You guys are a bunch of fucking short-sighted imbeciles.

Sure is odd that he spends so much time making even more money. I wonder why he hasn't given his wealth away already so that he can personally see the good that his charity has done?

What he wears and where he lives has little relevance. I know a rich bastard whose big thing is cigars. My cheap ass clothes probably cost more than his but he spends more on a single cigar than a years worth of my clothing costs.

I really don't have anything against the man. If he wants to make money, great. If he wants to give it all away, great. Just don't expect me to buy some bullshit that even though he is one of the very few making a ton of money that he is really only doing it to give it away after he dies. If he gives it all away tomorrow I will be more than happy to apologize.

 

[bamacre]

Because commodities aren't prone to short-term speculation.

LOL, speculation, yeah as a result of the monetary inflation. That's why people are buying commodities, because they expect the value of the dollar to fall. If there were truly a lack of money, then where did all the money come from that went into commodities? When prices go up, and you call it speculation, may I ask, what is price inflation? Or, do you just look at CPI?

 

[bamacre]

Actually no, accepting credible estimates used by economists and interested organizations all across planet earth is not the same as being a young earth creationist.

"Credible estimates used by economists and interested organizations." Yeah, they're never wrong. :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[LegendKiller]

LOL, speculation, yeah as a result of the monetary inflation. That's why people are buying commodities, because they expect the value of the dollar to fall. If there were truly a lack of money, then where did all the money come from that went into commodities? When prices go up, and you call it speculation, may I ask, what is price inflation? Or, do you just look at CPI?

So let me guess this straight. The Money expanded 2x from 06-07 when oil went from 75 to 150, then it suddenly contracted by 2/3 when oil went from 150 to 50.

Wow, in that time you had a huge expansion of "money"...how did that work?

Yeah, they are buying commodities because they expect the dollar to fall. Just like they bought houses because they expected them to rise.

I guess people are only stupid when they don't agree with you. In all other cases, when they agree with you, they are 100% rational and price in *ALL* information.

 

[LegendKiller]

"Credible estimates used by economists and interested organizations." Yeah, they're never wrong. :biggrin::biggrin:

But people who believe when you believe are always right...

 

[fskimospy]

"Credible estimates used by economists and interested organizations." Yeah, they're never wrong. :biggrin::biggrin:

They know a lot more about economics than you do. Regardless, your previous statement was stupid and you know it.

 

[LegendKiller]

Sure is odd that he spends so much time making even more money. I wonder why he hasn't given his wealth away already so that he can personally see the good that his charity has done?

What he wears and where he lives has little relevance. I know a rich bastard whose big thing is cigars. My cheap ass clothes probably cost more than his but he spends more on a single cigar than a years worth of my clothing costs.

I really don't have anything against the man. If he wants to make money, great. If he wants to give it all away, great. Just don't expect me to buy some bullshit that even though he is one of the very few making a ton of money that he is really only doing it to give it away after he dies. If he gives it all away tomorrow I will be more than happy to apologize.

Want to lay a wager on it?

We both put $500 into PayPal next month, signing a contract that the money will be donated to a charity if Buffet gives away his money when he dies. If he doesn't, you get the money.

Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[LegendKiller]

They know a lot more about economics than you do. Regardless, your previous statement was stupid and you know it.

Come on now, they obviously didn't go to the prestigious University of YouTube. They are all stupid and wrong 100% of the time. He's smart and right 100% of the time.

It's why he's in this thread, he actually scoffs at Buffet because bamacre is worth $60bn.

 

[Darwin333]

They ARE included in their inflation numbers, but excluded from CORE inflation because of their highly volatile nature and the fact that they are subject to external pressures, therefore telling us little about how our economy is actually doing.

All this information is freely available to you if you simply decided to educate yourself.

I know, I actually read the reports and not just the headlines.

Un-adjusted
12-mos.
Apr. May June July Aug. Sep. Oct. ended
2010 2010 2010 2010 2010 2010 2010 Oct.
2010

All items.................. -.1 -.2 -.1 .3 .3 .1 .2 1.2
Food...................... .2 .0 .0 -.1 .2 .3 .1 1.4
Food at home............. .2 .0 -.1 -.1 .0 .3 .0 1.4
Food away from home (1).. .1 .1 .1 .0 .3 .3 .1 1.4
Energy.................... -1.4 -2.9 -2.9 2.6 2.3 .7 2.6 5.9
Energy commodities....... -2.1 -4.8 -4.1 4.0 3.8 1.8 4.4 9.9
Gasoline (all types).... -2.4 -5.2 -4.5 4.6 3.9 1.6 4.6 9.5
Fuel oil (1)............ 2.3 -1.4 -3.2 -1.6 .9 .8 4.7 14.5
Energy services.......... -.5 -.5 -1.6 .8 .4 -.8 .2 .9
Electricity............. .7 -.4 -2.2 .5 .2 -.3 .4 .6
Utility (piped) gas
service.............. -4.4 -1.0 .6 1.7 1.1 -2.3 -.4 1.9
All items less food and
energy................. .0 .1 .2 .1 .0 .0 .0 .6
Commodities less food and
energy commodities.... -.3 .1 .2 .2 .1 -.2 -.2 .1
New vehicles............ .0 .1 .1 .1 .3 .1 -.2 .4
Used cars and trucks.... .2 .6 .9 .8 .7 -.7 -.9 8.6
Apparel................. -.7 .2 .8 .6 -.1 -.6 -.3 -1.2
Medical care commodities
(1).................. .2 .1 .0 -.2 .2 .3 .1 2.5
Services less energy
services.............. .2 .1 .1 .1 .0 .1 .1 .8
Shelter................. .0 .1 .1 .1 .0 .0 .1 -.3
Transportation services .4 .4 .0 .0 .1 .3 .3 2.8
Medical care services... .3 .0 .4 .0 .2 .8 .2 3.6

I see a lot of positive numbers and not very many negative ones, whats your take?

 

[sMiLeYz]

Stolen from Krugman,

Commodities a poor measure of inflation, just look how volatile prices are in general.

 

[Darwin333]

Want to lay a wager on it?

We both put $500 into PayPal next month, signing a contract that the money will be donated to a charity if Buffet gives away his money when he dies. If he doesn't, you get the money.

Put your money where your mouth is.

I have no doubt that he will give the money away when he dies. It is the "when he dies" part that I have commented on. Are you saying he might need it after he is dead or something because I don't think he will meaning its not much of a sacrifice.

Now if you want to make a wager that he will give all of his money away, to the point of being middle class, while he is ALIVE I would love to take you up on that.

Are you and LK willing to put your nuts on the table when it actually means something to him or only after he has no use for it anymore?

Edit: Hell, I'll take the bet on the condition of modestly rich instead of middle class but he has to do it while he is alive and not expecting to die in the immediate future (no deathbed bullshit or terminal cancer diagnosis and then he does it). As it is now he won't even know if the money is stolen or actually given away because he will be kinda fucking dead. As in deceased, no longer among the living, 6 feet under, worm food, etc...

 

[LegendKiller]

I have no doubt that he will give the money away when he dies. It is the "when he dies" part that I have commented on. Are you saying he might need it after he is dead or something because I don't think he will meaning its not much of a sacrifice.

Now if you want to make a wager that he will give all of his money away, to the point of being middle class, while he is ALIVE I would love to take you up on that.

Are you and LK willing to put your nuts on the table when it actually means something to him or only after he has no use for it anymore?

Not exactly sure why this is such a temporal issue. He isn't leaving it all to his family...

 

[fskimospy]

I know, I actually read the reports and not just the headlines.

Un-adjusted
12-mos.
Apr. May June July Aug. Sep. Oct. ended
2010 2010 2010 2010 2010 2010 2010 Oct.
2010

All items.................. -.1 -.2 -.1 .3 .3 .1 .2 1.2
Food...................... .2 .0 .0 -.1 .2 .3 .1 1.4
Food at home............. .2 .0 -.1 -.1 .0 .3 .0 1.4
Food away from home (1).. .1 .1 .1 .0 .3 .3 .1 1.4
Energy.................... -1.4 -2.9 -2.9 2.6 2.3 .7 2.6 5.9
Energy commodities....... -2.1 -4.8 -4.1 4.0 3.8 1.8 4.4 9.9
Gasoline (all types).... -2.4 -5.2 -4.5 4.6 3.9 1.6 4.6 9.5
Fuel oil (1)............ 2.3 -1.4 -3.2 -1.6 .9 .8 4.7 14.5
Energy services.......... -.5 -.5 -1.6 .8 .4 -.8 .2 .9
Electricity............. .7 -.4 -2.2 .5 .2 -.3 .4 .6
Utility (piped) gas
service.............. -4.4 -1.0 .6 1.7 1.1 -2.3 -.4 1.9
All items less food and
energy................. .0 .1 .2 .1 .0 .0 .0 .6
Commodities less food and
energy commodities.... -.3 .1 .2 .2 .1 -.2 -.2 .1
New vehicles............ .0 .1 .1 .1 .3 .1 -.2 .4
Used cars and trucks.... .2 .6 .9 .8 .7 -.7 -.9 8.6
Apparel................. -.7 .2 .8 .6 -.1 -.6 -.3 -1.2
Medical care commodities
(1).................. .2 .1 .0 -.2 .2 .3 .1 2.5
Services less energy
services.............. .2 .1 .1 .1 .0 .1 .1 .8
Shelter................. .0 .1 .1 .1 .0 .0 .1 -.3
Transportation services .4 .4 .0 .0 .1 .3 .3 2.8
Medical care services... .3 .0 .4 .0 .2 .8 .2 3.6

I see a lot of positive numbers and not very many negative ones, whats your take?

I read the report too. It's a great thing that there aren't negative numbers, deflation is catastrophic to any economy. Mild, sustained inflation in the 1-3% range is the generally accepted target for every economy (and that would be core inflation), as it appears to be the optimal range for effective growth. We are currently at the very lowest end of that, and at significant risk for deflation.

 

[Darwin333]

Not exactly sure why this is such a temporal issue. He isn't leaving it all to his family...

what does it cost him?

Nothing, he will be dead. What kind of noble gesture is it when it costs you literally nothing to do it?

 

[fskimospy]

Come on now, they obviously didn't go to the prestigious University of YouTube. They are all stupid and wrong 100% of the time. He's smart and right 100% of the time.

It's why he's in this thread, he actually scoffs at Buffet because bamacre is worth $60bn.

I am consistently amazed at the amount of experts we have on here in every field. Not people that cite other experts for their opinions, but those who consistently talk about how wrong all the experts are.

Economics, politics, science, law, counter-insurgency, you name it. If only we could tap into this vast reservoir of knowledge, the US would be right as rain!

 

[Darwin333]

Because commodities aren't prone to short-term speculation.

Damn near ALL of them at the same time and the games we are playing in that same time period are just coincidence?

 

[LegendKiller]

Damn near ALL of them at the same and the games we are playing in that same time period are just coincidence?

Are any of them correlated? Are any of them substitutable with others?

I mean, it's not like oil can affect corn, right? It's not as if low corn yields can make wheat or soy more desirable and the price raises?

It's not like chinese demand for cotton and low crop yields can be front-run by speculators. Nope, it's all monetary inflation...

God you guys are stupid.

 

[LegendKiller]

what does it cost him?

Nothing, he will be dead. What kind of noble gesture is it when it costs you literally nothing to do it?

What is he gaining from it if he doesn't give it away now if he's going to give it all way anyway?

 

[bamacre]

So let me guess this straight. The Money expanded 2x from 06-07 when oil went from 75 to 150, then it suddenly contracted by 2/3 when oil went from 150 to 50.

Wow, in that time you had a huge expansion of "money"...how did that work?

Yeah, they are buying commodities because they expect the dollar to fall. Just like they bought houses because they expected them to rise.

I guess people are only stupid when they don't agree with you. In all other cases, when they agree with you, they are 100% rational and price in *ALL* information.

LOL, wow, quite a diversion here. Look, if you are saying that there is a bubble going on in commodities, just like we had a bubble in housing, then why in the HELL are we fueling it with 0% interest rates and QE2? If we are in bubble territory again, this is not a sign of deflation, it's a sign of inflation. With the exception of the housing market, what prices are falling? Food, clothes, energy, anything?

 

[bamacre]

But people who believe when you believe are always right...

Yeah, that's what I was saying. :\