WARNING! xfx 6970's no longer have a bios switch, and are still using a REF model #

[taltamir]

Since when is Evga the only decent player?

Since XFX went crooked and BFG folded.

That is an opinion.

Yes, by definition it is an opinion... in fact by definition it is my opinion, since I stated it. It also happen to be true because I am awesome like that.

Every card I ever owned from them died a quicker death than it should have. I never owned one that even reached 2 years of age. So IMO they lack also.

Lucky you, they don't have stock of 2+ year old cards and give free upgrades when that happens. None of my eVGA cards died. Its really a win/win for the customer.

 

[Seero]

This post is completely mis-informative and misinformed.

1st) The bios switch on the 6970 doesn't offer any OC option ans as already said, this isn't a 6990 and its AUSUM switch.

2nd) I'm not sure in what you are basing your assessment that this is a new reference design made by AMD. If you are basing it on the fact that several AIBs use a similar design, you should also know some of those designs do include the bios switch, as for example the powercolor 6950 pcs++ that even have an unlocked shader ans core oc bios.

The decision not to include the bios switch was XFX alone.

3rd) The AMD logo on a PCB guarantees that for example any water block says it compatible with the 6970 reference design will fit on the card.

That is one of the complains of the OP - he had a waterblock for a reference 6970 and it didn't fit since it wasn't a reference design.

So reference designs and AMD logos aren't just some kind of excuse or something that doesn't matter for the consumer.

It isn't assessment, but simply opinions.
1)The functionality of the switch. May it 6990, 6970, or 6950, the functionality is the same. Flashing bios isn't something a user should do as failure will kill the card, only do it when absolutely necessary. This goes to all hardwares with flashable bios. However, with dual bios, people ain't afraid of killing the card by flashing the card, and therefore take advantage of it. Really, the switch is for that purpose. Flash it with superclocked bios, flash it with supersuperclocked bios, even flash it with a bios for a different card. Flash a 6850 to a 6870.

Tell me you are not aware of this.

2)What assessment? Like you, I don't know for sure, but unlike you, I don't really care. The fact is, XFX isn't the only company with revision. Since AMD doesn't make video cards, soon onces with switches can no longer be brought through manufacturer.

3)Yes, old waterblock doesn't fit. Well, that is what refunds are for. Unless you sold your kidney for it, it really isn't a big deal. Keep in mind that AMD doesn't sell the board, so don't be alarmed when a board doesn't have AMD logo on it. Why a board that is actually made by, say XFX, have an AMD logo on it is beyond me.

 

[taltamir]

This post is completely mis-informative and misinformed.

1st) The bios switch on the 6970 doesn't offer any OC option ans as already said, this isn't a 6990 and its AUSUM switch.

2nd) I'm not sure in what you are basing your assessment that this is a new reference design made by AMD. If you are basing it on the fact that several AIBs use a similar design, you should also know some of those designs do include the bios switch, as for example the powercolor 6950 pcs++ that even have an unlocked shader ans core oc bios.

The decision not to include the bios switch was XFX alone.

3rd) The AMD logo on a PCB guarantees that for example any water block says it compatible with the 6970 reference design will fit on the card.

That is one of the complains of the OP - he had a waterblock for a reference 6970 and it didn't fit since it wasn't a reference design.

So reference designs and AMD logos aren't just some kind of excuse or something that doesn't matter for the consumer.

Allow me a point by point rebuttal
1. Bait and switch.
2. Bait and switch.
3. Bait and switch.

Seriously, that is is the answer to each of your points. There are two completely different products packaged in the same box and indistinguishable to the buyer and that is not acceptable.
The OP isn't being whiny, or entitled, or whatever... the OP bought product A and got product B.

 

[Seero]

Allow me a point by point rebuttal
1. Bait and switch.
2. Bait and switch.
3. Bait and switch.

Seriously, that is is the answer to each of your points. There are two completely different products packaged in the same box and indistinguishable to the buyer and that is not acceptable.
The OP isn't being whiny, or entitled, or whatever... the OP bought product A and got product B.

Different product? I will go with different make, but different product? Did OP ended up getting a CPU?

Check the spec and see if the new video card runs at that spec. If it does, then there is nothing wrong. In fact, the board OP got is actually BETTER than the original. It runs at a better clock speed and is actually more expensive than the original.

Why are you guys make it sounded like a bad deal when it is actually a good one?

"I want the 6870 that runs at 880/1375Mhz, they ship me one that runs at 900/1400Mhz, that is unacceptable!!"

....

 

[GaiaHunter]

Allow me a point by point rebuttal
1. Bait and switch.
2. Bait and switch.
3. Bait and switch.

Seriously, that is is the answer to each of your points. There are two completely different products packaged in the same box and indistinguishable to the buyer and that is not acceptable.
The OP isn't being whiny, or entitled, or whatever... the OP bought product A and got product B.

I'm not sure in what crusade you embarked on but I'm the wrong target.

I'm in no way trying to say XFX isn't to blame. In case you haven't noticed I said the OP is entitled to feel ripped off.

Generally if a card carry the AMD logo on the PCB it means it is reference design from AMD.

XFX are not changing one of their own designs - they are changing an AMD design and keeping their model number and similar box, etc. Appears to be misinformation.

As a consumer I wouldn't be satisfied if this happened to me either.

Only reference models are guaranteed to have bios switch - non-reference model is up to the AIB.

As it was said before there are non-reference with the bios switch.

The problem presented in the OP is a card that was sold as being a reference model and in fact it isn't.

There is no new AMD policy, at least that we know about, that calls for partners to change their reference models and/or remove the bios switch.

My post is direct to those that are trying to claim that this is some new AMD policy that is forbidding the AIB from including the bios switch.

I don't know and they don't know, but the facts are that even the new revision PCB board allows the bios switch since there are partners that include it.

 

[GaiaHunter]

2)What assessment? Like you, I don't know for sure, but unlike you, I don't really care. The fact is, XFX isn't the only company with revision. Since AMD doesn't make video cards, soon onces with switches can no longer be brought through manufacturer.

Again you are choosing to ignore the fact that this revision allows the bios switch.

Your point is "AMD killed the bios switch and so the new revision sponsored by AMD doesn't have the switch, because it is a pain for warranties blah blah".

I simply have to point a revision of that PCB with the bios switch to rebutte that claim.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_6950_PCS_Plus_Plus/3.html

 

[taltamir]

My post is direct to those that are trying to claim that this is some new AMD policy that is forbidding the AIB from including the bios switch.

Fair enough. The problem is definitely XFX not AMD, as it was XFX's choice to perform a bait and switch rather then phasing out one product SKU for another (same GPU name but different model number are common and honest)

 

[Seero]

...
Your point is "AMD killed the bios switch and so the new revision sponsored by AMD doesn't have the switch, because it is a pain for warranties blah blah".
...

That isn't my point. I don't know how you see it as my point. I said it twice in my original post that AMD is not at fault. I however also said XFX is not at fault.

In very simple terms, I say, the design is indeed from AMD as a revision, and the switch was removed during production. It is clear that the design of the revision does allow the placement of the switch, but the switch is removed. Since AMD doesn't produce video cards, if manufacturer decided to ditch that switch, then the end product won't have the switch. What is so difficult to understand?

Why do manufacturers remove the switch? Well they do have the right and control over the parts used by the BoM (Bill of Material). As a user, you don't need to know whether they indeed follow the original BoM/design from AMD or not as long as they provide warranty on it. Since AMD does not provide warranties on the board, they don't have control over it.

Whether or not the resulting product cost less to build is one thing, the fact that it is being sold 20 bucks more than the original is another. The latter is what users care about. In fact, usual users only cares about stock performance, and the revision performs better than version 1.0.

You see, there are 2 things, 1) aftermarket parts don't fit, and 2) missing switch. First, I don't recall when is the last time a aftermarket part fits perfectly. If it doesn't fit, then return it. The key word is aftermarket.

Second, the switch. It is not on the spec. A manufacturer can replace a variable resistor with a normal resistor through revision. Unless it hurts performance or missing features on the spec, it is fine. Seriously, it will be naive to believe that users ain't taken advantages of the switch as well as abusing its warranties.

Check newegg now and you will see 2 version of the card. OP ordered the cheaper one and got the expensive one.

In case you guys are still upset about the missing AMD logo and therefore it isn't a design from AMD.

Image from www.swiftech.com

Happy now?

 

[GaiaHunter]

Check newegg now and you will see 2 version of the card. OP ordered the cheaper one and got the expensive one.

In case you guys are still upset about the missing AMD logo and therefore it isn't a design from AMD.

Image from www.swiftech.com

Happy now?

You will notice none of the new revision PCB products on newegg do have the AMD logo though. At least I didn't see one.

Seems good policy to avoid confusions.

 

[lyang238]

XFX gotta make a dollar or too as well.

 

[vailr]

A "bios switch" might be useful for having just one standard video card that could be used both: in a Mac Pro (with it's special Apple bios requirements), as well as being switchable to being used in a "normal" PC.
Has anyone considered that idea?

 

[Seero]

A "bios switch" might be useful for having just one standard video card that could be used both: in a Mac Pro (with it's special Apple bios requirements), as well as being switchable to being used in a "normal" PC.
Has anyone considered that idea?

It isn't dual bios that is causing problems, it is the way it is being use that is causing problmes. The problem doesn't affect user much as if something goes wrong, then RMA the card, but who is going to pay for repairs on things are not a result of defects?

Unfortunately, customers as a whole do have control over how things should work. I say 99% of bugs will not exists if every piece of software/hardware is being used the way they are designed to and operates at designed environment/condition.

It all comes down to money talk. Manufacturer is at fault shall they find ways to escape from responsibilities when they are the one causing the problem, but it is okay for them to build products that are more robust. If ditching the switch reduces the number of RMAs/died cards, then they should ditch it. If any part used within a product is deem to cause problems, ditching/replacing it is the right thing to do.

Think of insurance. If you do drive you should know that car insurance kills. Why? Well it really has nothing to do with your skills, experience, or age, but the fact that the total number of revenue must be greater than expenses or they will go backrupt. Since they must pay for claims that appears to be legitimate, hence average Joe who really did nothing wrong have to suffer. The same is, or has been, happening to computer parts.

Just like everything else, our benefit was removed due to those who abuse it. When it comes to video cards, we care about if it is AMD or Nvidia and how fast can it run for the price. What are manfacturers? well all we care about is their claim records. Not the number of claims, but rather the success rate of claims and do they make customer jump through loops. We see them as insurance of our purchase.

This particular event is a good example where all finger points to manufacturer, XFX as if they only sell defective goods, products built with cheap parts, doesn't sell as advertise, blood sucking SoB.

That is okay, they have lots of PRs for that reason. At the end we are the ones who pay more for less.

Welcome to the real world.

 

[Outrage]

1)The functionality of the switch. May it 6990, 6970, or 6950, the functionality is the same. Flashing bios isn't something a user should do as failure will kill the card, only do it when absolutely necessary. This goes to all hardwares with flashable bios. However, with dual bios, people ain't afraid of killing the card by flashing the card, and therefore take advantage of it. Really, the switch is for that purpose. Flash it with superclocked bios, flash it with supersuperclocked bios, even flash it with a bios for a different card. Flash a 6850 to a 6870.

Tell me you are not aware of this.

The switch on the 6950/70 is different from the 6990, and i hope you are aware of that.

the switch on the 6950/70 shouldent have been there from the beginning, since it's useless to the majority of users.

 

[XFX Support]

We would like to apologize for any inconvenience that this revision change has caused anyone. I would like to clear up a few misconceptions about the revision 1.1 6970. The PCB used on this card is an AMD design that other manufacturers are using on their 6970s as well. It does not have an AMD logo on the PCB as the circuit board is made by us to their design. The components used on the second revision cards are not inferior in their ability to perform to the first revision. If there are any questions or concerns in regards to modifying the cooling solution to this or ANY other XFX product we would love the opportunity to discuss it with our customers. You can reach us at 800-880-3225 or through our support page at www.XFXFORCE.com.

 

[3DVagabond]

It isn't dual bios that is causing problems, it is the way it is being use that is causing problmes. The problem doesn't affect user much as if something goes wrong, then RMA the card, but who is going to pay for repairs on things are not a result of defects?

Unfortunately, customers as a whole do have control over how things should work. I say 99% of bugs will not exists if every piece of software/hardware is being used the way they are designed to and operates at designed environment/condition.

It all comes down to money talk. Manufacturer is at fault shall they find ways to escape from responsibilities when they are the one causing the problem, but it is okay for them to build products that are more robust. If ditching the switch reduces the number of RMAs/died cards, then they should ditch it. If any part used within a product is deem to cause problems, ditching/replacing it is the right thing to do.

Think of insurance. If you do drive you should know that car insurance kills. Why? Well it really has nothing to do with your skills, experience, or age, but the fact that the total number of revenue must be greater than expenses or they will go backrupt. Since they must pay for claims that appears to be legitimate, hence average Joe who really did nothing wrong have to suffer. The same is, or has been, happening to computer parts.

Just like everything else, our benefit was removed due to those who abuse it. When it comes to video cards, we care about if it is AMD or Nvidia and how fast can it run for the price. What are manfacturers? well all we care about is their claim records. Not the number of claims, but rather the success rate of claims and do they make customer jump through loops. We see them as insurance of our purchase.

*This particular event is a good example where all finger points to manufacturer, XFX as if they only sell defective goods, products built with cheap parts, doesn't sell as advertise, blood sucking SoB.

That is okay, they have lots of PRs for that reason. At the end we are the ones who pay more for less.

Welcome to the real world.

Please present your evidence that there have been warranty issues caused be the bios switch. Until then you haven't even shown a motive for what you are claiming. You have taken the bios switch being removed from a card and just run and run with it.

*What?

 

[3DVagabond]

We would like to apologize for any inconvenience that this revision change has caused anyone. I would like to clear up a few misconceptions about the revision 1.1 6970. The PCB used on this card is an AMD design that other manufacturers are using on their 6970s as well. It does not have an AMD logo on the PCB as the circuit board is made by us to their design. The components used on the second revision cards are not inferior in their ability to perform to the first revision. If there are any questions or concerns in regards to modifying the cooling solution to this or ANY other XFX product we would love the opportunity to discuss it with our customers. You can reach us at 800-880-3225 or through our support page at www.XFXFORCE.com.

No offense, but 5 pages of discussion in this thread about the ethics, or lack of, by your company and AMD isn't addressed to well by this response. While aftermarket cooling solutions not fitting was the concern that brought this to the light of day, what about all of the other concerns and accusations? Main concern is the apparent bait and switch of presenting it as the original reference design when it's not.

 

[Firestorm007]

No offense, but 5 pages of discussion in this thread about the ethics, or lack of, by your company and AMD isn't addressed to well by this response. While aftermarket cooling solutions not fitting was the concern that brought this to the light of day, what about all of the other concerns and accusations? Main concern is the apparent bait and switch of presenting it as the original reference design when it's not.

Very well said! Sorry there XFX rep, I'm not buying the spin. Please address the original issue, in that you have cannabilized the original AMD reference design and cheaped out to make more money. That's a fact. The problem isn't that you did this. You're out to make money like anyone else. The fact of the matter is that you retained the original SKU on a product that doesn't resemble the original and tried to pass it off as that. In fact, Sapphire has done it and changed the SKU. You could learn a lesson from them. Nevertheless, you've lost my business for good.

 

[timma]

Gigabyte/msi/ASUS still have it.:sneaky:

 

[3DVagabond]

Gigabyte/msi/ASUS still have it.:sneaky:

I wouldn't let this one vendor drag down any others. Those you've mentioned are excellent companies for both GPU brands. There are others too, on one side or the other.

I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and blame it on the retailer not updating their site. No real explanation from the XFX rep doesn't instill any confidence though. It's a bit late to tell someone to contact customer support after they've bought the card, waterblock, and who knows how much other gear, and the card isn't the right one. Especially since they are aware of the problem now. It needs to be addressed so as not to inconvenience the customer. You know, the one who pays the bills. And not after they buy it. Very cavalier attitude, IMO.

 

[Seero]

The switch on the 6950/70 is different from the 6990, and i hope you are aware of that.

the switch on the 6950/70 shouldent have been there from the beginning, since it's useless to the majority of users.

Dude, what is different between the cards isn't the switch, but the bios. The function of the switch is the same, switch between 2 bios. You can pretend you don't know or ain't using it that way. I am saying that there are people who are using it to OC and flash it with BIOS that causes problems. Dig this very forum for proof.

Please present your evidence that there have been warranty issues caused be the bios switch. Until then you haven't even shown a motive for what you are claiming. You have taken the bios switch being removed from a card and just run and run with it.

My motive? Why don't we talk about your motive? What is your motive? What evidence do you have behind your claims? Non-Reference? I have a picture of proof as well as word straight from XFX rep that it is a new Reference board from AMD. Where is your side of the evidence?

As to the cheap parts claim, again we have a XFX rep's word that it is not inferior than the original BoM. Is this evidence? I showed you that the new one runs 900/1400 and the old one runs 880/1375. Is this evidence? The new version are more expensive, is this evidence? Now let me see your evidence.

As to aftermarket parts. Please look up the word aftermarket and the meaning of aftermarket parts. They don't always fit. It happens to cars a lot. It is a new idea to be that a company must design stuff around aftermark parts. Can you show me one piece o f evidence that any product making company build their product around aftermarket parts? I will like to see it.

*What?

No offense, but 5 pages of discussion in this thread about the ethics, or lack of, by your company and AMD isn't addressed to well by this response. While aftermarket cooling solutions not fitting was the concern that brought this to the light of day, what about all of the other concerns and accusations? Main concern is the apparent bait and switch of presenting it as the original reference design when it's not.

What *What?? You have a rep kind enough to jump in here and give us a clear picture of what is going on. You can take it as their version of truth. The rep isn't her to argue with others, but simply state facts. You however question him about ethics. Either you don't really understand the word "ethic" means, or being unreasonable. Pick one.

You almost have me convinced that you are the person who brought the aftermarket waterblock. Hey, even if you are the person, no one owes you anything. If you are not the person, then your action is nothing but spreading FUD. If you dear to reply without any sort of evidence on your next reply than you are admitting you have no evidence to your claim. In other words, you are making baseless claims. In urban terminology, those are called spreading FUD.

 

[3DVagabond]

My motive? Why don't we talk about your motive? What is your motive? What evidence do you have behind your claims? Non-Reference? I have a picture of proof as well as word straight from XFX rep that it is a new Reference board from AMD. Where is your side of the evidence?

I wasn't asking for your motive. I was talking about AMD's motive, which according to you was they dropped the switch to reduce warranty claims. We have no evidence of that, Just you saying so.

The rep simply states that it is an AMD design. Nowhere, that I saw, does he claim it as a new reference design.

As to the cheap parts claim, again we have a XFX rep's word that it is not inferior than the original BoM. Is this evidence? I showed you that the new one runs 900/1400 and the old one runs 880/1375. Is this evidence? The new version are more expensive, is this evidence? Now let me see your evidence.

You want to accept that, fine. It's not the jist of the discussion.

As to aftermarket parts. Please look up the word aftermarket and the meaning of aftermarket parts. They don't always fit. It happens to cars a lot. It is a new idea to be that a company must design stuff around aftermark parts. Can you show me one piece o f evidence that any product making company build their product around aftermarket parts? I will like to see it.

The aftermarket parts don't fit because the board has been revised. The OP bought the part because it was claimed to be the part his blocks fit on. It wasn't. It was a different part being marketed under the old sku.

What *What?? You have a rep kind enough to jump in here and give us a clear picture of what is going on. You can take it as their version of truth. The rep isn't her to argue with others, but simply state facts. You however question him about ethics. Either you don't really understand the word "ethic" means, or being unreasonable. Pick one.

The rep isn't being kind. He's doing his job as an XFX representative, which he is paid for.

The What was that I couldn't make sense of the sentence that I also highlighted in red.

You almost have me convinced that you are the person who brought the aftermarket waterblock. Hey, even if you are the person, no one owes you anything. If you are not the person, then your action is nothing but spreading FUD. If you dear to reply without any sort of evidence on your next reply than you are admitting you have no evidence to your claim. In other words, you are making baseless claims. In urban terminology, those are called spreading FUD.

What claim of mine would you like me to provide evidence of?

 

[happy medium]

The rep isn't being kind. He's doing his job as an XFX representative, which he is paid for.

:thumbsup:exactly!

 

[Skott]

^ Yep, the Rep is just doing and saying what he's told to say and do. That's his job.

 

[Outrage]

Dude, what is different between the cards isn't the switch, but the bios. The function of the switch is the same, switch between 2 bios. You can pretend you don't know or ain't using it that way. I am saying that there are people who are using it to OC and flash it with BIOS that causes problems. Dig this very forum for proof.

When you buy a 6950/70 the bios in position 1 and 2 are the same. by your previous posts i dont think you know this.

The reminding question isn't about the switch, but whether the card can be OC as if it is using BIOS2. If it can't, then fanboys who believes they are once self proclaim enthusiast and overclocker can cry on streets as their dream has just got shattered.

Surf's up, got to hit the waves

 

[Silverforce11]

I don't think many ppl would give a damn if it had the switch or not. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

But it should be made clear regardless. People should receive what they paid for. If they thought they paid for a card with a switch and didn't, then its marketing at fault.