WARNING: Off Topic is approaching critical mass.

[Nemesis77]

I don't think OT is THAT bad. Yes, there are occasional "heated discussions", but that's what you get with 90.000+ members. There is bound to be differences when it comes to politics, ethics, moral, values, religion, thought hobbies and god knows what. And we shouldn't limit those. Personal attacks should be completely banned, but I rarely see that.

What could we do to cut down the number of useless threads/posts? Well, two things comes to my mind:

1. Every new thread must be approved by a mod. Now, that increases the workload of the mods ALOT, and it also causes latency. So that might not be feasible. A system similar to this is already being used in linuxtoday.com (altrough they moderate every post)

2. Easy way to report stupid posts/threads to mods. A button that says "Report this thread/post to moderators". It would only take one click to do it. This introduces the potential of abuse in the system. People reporting posts made by people they happen to disagree with. But that could be eliminated with strict punishments for abusing the system.

Other than that... Is it possible for users to ignore certain members? Like if someone constantly nefs, people could click a button that would but that user on their ignore-list. Posts by that user would be invisible from that moment on.

Making OT subscriber only is a bad idea. We would get the "Hey, I'm paying for this, I'll do whatever I want!" problem.

But, in the end, this "problem" seems to boil down to the fact that people are interested in different things. I think many of the threads in OT are waste of space, but for someone else they might be important. Can we really decide what threads are worthy and what are not? If you don't like OT, then stay out of it! I don't whine about the trolls in FS/FT, since I don't read that forum (I'm not a trader).

OT is an open forum. With that freedom comes the losers and stupid posts. But I trust that the mods can take care of the occasional lamer.

 

[kami]

Last night was ridiculous. I wish some of the offending members got vacations to set an example....it was pure stupidity. I won't name anyone, but some of them seem to have racked up 100+ posts in a 1-2 hour period...what a waste of bandwidth.

OT is degenerating into an AOL chatroom

3 of them did earn vacations because of their activities last night.

 

[Shuxclams]

And I wasnt involved? DAMN I always miss out on all the fun!!












SHUX

 

[aphex]

Narzy, it think having this group of Teenagers/ Silly adults nef and troll late night at ATOT is better than them doing it at the Hardware Forums.

Very good point Red. Wasnt this the reason for OT opening in the first place?

 

[networkman]

Making OT subscriber only is a bad idea. We would get the "Hey, I'm paying for this, I'll do whatever I want!" problem.

Not necessarily - even now, as a subscriber, one still has to follow the rules or risk getting banned. And read the fine print - there are NO refunds on the subscription, so if someone subscribes and nefs enough to get themselves banned, that's just too bad, they just wasted their money.

 

[OS]

I know lately I've done my share of filling the forums with garbage, but that's just how the place is these days.

Not that long ago I tried starting a sort of philosophical thread about cleaning up one's thought processes and it got exactly zero replies.

No offense to anyone, but like the cliche goes, how can I soar like an eagle when I'm surrounded by turkeys?

 

[bizmark]

Originally posted by: networkman
Making OT subscriber only is a bad idea. We would get the "Hey, I'm paying for this, I'll do whatever I want!" problem.

Not necessarily - even now, as a subscriber, one still has to follow the rules or risk getting banned. And read the fine print - there are NO refunds on the subscription, so if someone subscribes and nefs enough to get themselves banned, that's just too bad, they just wasted their money.

I've already seen multiple examples of the "I'll waste bandwidth b/c I'm paying for it" syndrome here. The problem is that banning simply doesn't happen for neffing. Nobody, subscriber or non-subscriber, has been banned for neffing lately (although the 3 vacations from last night are a positive sign).

 

[UberNeuman]

ZapZilla and bizmark have offered a good approach in dealing with problems that this bbs faces... I'd like to offer this as well... If a member aproaching being banned (and has been warned, but keeps going), then that member "banned" should lose their member title and post count as well, thus going back to zero...

 

[etech]

UberNeuman

That was or is one of the problems, no one was being banned or even being warned for huge amounts of nefing. Even with the three of last night I'm not sure that policy has changed. I haven't seen any sign of it yet.

If I have missed it will someone please point it out to me.

edit
Forgot one

Can anyone please tell me why we cannot get rid of the top ten poster list on the today page.

edit 2, grammar

 

[networkman]

Can anyone please tell me why we cannot get rid of the top ten poster list on the today page.

Amen! Good question!

 

[aphex]

Can anyone please tell me why we cannot get rid of the top ten poster list on the today page.

*GASP* Etech and i agree on something??? (aphexII faints)

It does seem pretty pointless if ya ask me.. But then again, who the hell looks at the Today page? I dont think i even found that till my 6-7th month on these boards, and that was prolly the only time i ever looked at it.

 

[etech]

But then again, who the hell looks at the Today page?

The postcount++ juvies who are filling the forum with garbage to move their name up the list.

 

[narzy]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Did anyone notice that 95% of the truely stupid topics pop up at night? Every nef thread pops up after some of the mods go off duty. There is the real problem. Too many people stay up late just to see what they can get away with on a message board.

All those threads seem to have been deleted. So I guess it's much abo about nothing (unless some of those members had their posting priveleges suspended for breaking the rules.) Narzy, it think having this group of Teenagers/ Silly adults nef and troll late night at ATOT is better than them doing it at the Hardware Forums.

point taken red.

It would be nice if we could get some stats on how much bandwidth is used on Off-Topic alone.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Paulson
The only simple solution to everything is to delete the little thing called a post count

Who gives a damn about how many posts people have? I don't. I'm just here to read the material folks, not gawk at who's elite and who's not, and sure as hell not to compare "who's got more posts than everybody else"...

I'm sorry, but we could do a lot of good getting rid of post count. It's not necessary, and would fix so many freakin problems.

Well Paulson, you used to be the uber-nef, so why don't you just can it...

 

[Gaard]

I'm almost to the point where I've changed my mind...almost.

My stance was (is, actually) that anything that was detrimental to the forums should be barred. I don't think there's a single member here who would disagree with that statement. Even the kids who shout "I've paid for my subscription, I'll use the bandwidth however I want to as long as it's within the parameters of the rules!" would agree, right? The part that I'm having second thoughts on is this...what is detrimental to the forums?

Every now and then I hear some old timer talking about how much better the forums were back in the day. Registered members were a fraction of what they are now but it was a so much more smooth running forum. Nefs and trolls were something that passed thru now and then, unlike today where they are commonplace. And when they did raise their ugly heads the membership took it upon themselves to handle it.
What about the moderators? Did they take part in the handling of nefs and trolls? If you were a mod back in the day could you please shed some light on this? Today, the mods lock a thread here and there, give out a vacation now and then...but don't seem too involved in weeding out nefs. This leads me to believe that neffing, in general, isn't frowned upon like it had been.

So now comes the part about maybe I've been wrong all along. I used to think that nefs should be run out on a rail because they were detrimental to the forums. I used to think that bigotry and racism (and they both run rampant throughout these forums) should be stomped out like a hot cigarette butt. I used to think that people who constantly spew insults and put down fellow AT members with every breath should be shown the door.

But the nefs are left alone. The bigots and racists are allowed to spew their filth (I can't believe someone a few weeks ago got banned for using the word japs and yet others are allowed free reign to express their racist views). And those who can't open their mouths without insulting another person do so without fear of consequences.

So I started to think. Why? Why are those things allowed to go on. Surely, the powers that be wouldn't allow those things to happen if they were somehow detrimental to the forums. So, logic tells me that those things are not detrimental to the forums. I think it was Red Dawn who, a week or so ago, said something like "Everyone here has a roll to play." Maybe that's why those things are alowed to go on. It's a roll that somebody has to fill. Maybe without the nefs, trolls, bigots, racists, mudslingers, you name it...sure this place might run like a well-run computer tech forum, but would it hold the...I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for...mystique that it does now. Would all of the people still come here without the daily contraversy. Maybe without those things AT would be just another tech board. (Could one of the old timers shed some light on this...what was AT like, numbers...activity...etc, compared to the other tech boards?) These days every spinoff board (Adul's, Danny's, Shawn's, etc) has a thread about AnandTech every now and then. If AT were just another board would that be true? I'm sure Anand doesn't mind the free publicity that AT gets from these other forums, and if the daily neffests/contraversy keeps increasing the membership here how can that be a bad thing for him?

To sum it all up...maybe these things are bad things, but maybe they aren't bad for the forums. I'll always think nefs, bigots, mudslingers, etc are a**holes...but if Anand and the powers that be don't have a problem with them on these forums, maybe they'rea welcome part of AT and should be tolerated to the best of your ability.

**One more thing. Sorry about all of the paragraphs. I think it's easier to read this way but I never really learned what the proper criteria is for beginning a new paragraph. I think I did it ok.

 

[Azraele]

"Everyone here has a roll to play."

That brought a smile to my face, I don't know why.

 

[Gujski]

Originally posted by: baffled2
Why not just go ahead and make ATOT subscriber only ? It would solve much of the problem,end a lot of the bickering and be less rigid and restrictive than a ton of new heavy duty rules.I think people value things in direct proportionate to how much they pay for them.If people must pay to use ATOT I feel the quality of the forum would improve muchly

If they did this I would definately subscribe. Even if they just added 1 subscriber only forum i would most likely subscribe.

 

[etech]

Gaard
I respect your opinion and you do raise an interesting point. I'd like to address a few points.

Every now and then I hear some old timer talking about how much better the forums were back in the day. Registered members were a fraction of what they are now but it was a so much more smooth running forum. Nefs and trolls were something that passed thru now and then, unlike today where they are commonplace. And when they did raise their ugly heads the membership took it upon themselves to handle it.
What about the moderators? Did they take part in the handling of nefs and trolls? If you were a mod back in the day could you please shed some light on this? Today, the mods lock a thread here and there, give out a vacation now and then...but don't seem too involved in weeding out nefs. This leads me to believe that neffing, in general, isn't frowned upon like it had been.

Something has changed in the way the forums are being run. The orginal nef was quickly banned. Members today are out nefing the orginal nef by a wide margin and are still here and being celebrated(The Prince of Nefs thread, X got lifer threads etc.). The handling of nefs can only be left up to the mods. A member may complain but that usually only stimulates the adolescent nefs to even more posting.


The biggots and racists are at least expressing an idea. It may be a stupid and wrong idea but then it can be discussed, some people learn something by the discussion and at least there is the hope that some reader may come away a little wiser.
Nefs on the other hand contribute nothing and only take up space on the boards. I do not see any positive contribution they are making. I do see them driving away members and turning the board into an AOL chatroom.

To sum it up, a discussion with thought put into it is good for the forums. I do not see any good by someone posting one to three words replies to hundreds of threads solely to up their post count.

I was ready to subscribe to the forums until I became painfully aware that the nefs had taken over. Until they are cleaned out I do not see any reason to. I don't need to spend money to see the crap that they spew any faster. I wonder how many others feel the same way?
Making the forums ,even just ATOT, subcriber only will not help the nef situation. Many of the worst nefs already subscribe. They had to so they could post faster and keep their post count up.


BTW - I liked the paragraphs.

 

[bizmark]

say, here's an idea! The top-ten list on the "Today" page says "Top 10 User Listing". Which is pretty retarded IMO, since it just lists the top-10 posters by postcount..... how about (if not getting rid of it totally... which has been suggested repeatedly but hasn't happened, leading me to think that the powers-that-be have some good reason for leaving it there) putting up the top 10 members by User Rating, and limit it to those having 50 or more votes, or 1500+ posts, so that the only people listed are well-established and some newbie who gives himself a 10 won't be at the top of the list .

This will perhaps finally give some meaning to the as-yet-pointless User Rating, and also get rid of the retarded way that we currently have of determining our "Top Ten Users" (and thereby, according to some members, reduce the incentive to nef.... although I'm not sure I buy this completely). It would give people an incentive to allow user ratings in their profile, and also for people to be thoughtful when rating others rather than lashing out in anger when someone's political beliefs don't quite match up with theirs

.

 

[networkman]

An interesting thought, except that there's no limit on the number of people that one can "rate" AND all ratings are final with no appeal available if someone gets a low rating. As it is now, a Member can go around and rate as many people as he or she can with a "1"(worst) for no reason whatsoever with complete impunity; this is one reason why quite a few people(including myself) have the rating turned off, because it doesn't mean anything.

If people have to judge me, let 'em do it by my Heatware rep, my eBay rep, or just watch and see what I do for the good of the TA community.

EDIT: Bringing up ideas is a good thing though.. I'd give you a good rating.

 

[bizmark]

Originally posted by: networkman
An interesting thought, except that there's no limit on the number of people that one can "rate" AND all ratings are final with no appeal available if someone gets a low rating. As it is now, a Member can go around and rate as many people as he or she can with a "1"(worst) for no reason whatsoever with complete impunity; this is one reason why quite a few people(including myself) have the rating turned off, because it doesn't mean anything.

But they can only do it once, and over the long run, it wouldn't affect this top-ten listing, since everybody would be affected in the same way, (i.e. everyone would have the same '1' from this hypothetical idiot). It's like at hotornot.... the 9.9 people don't get all 10's, in fact they get a fair number of 1's, but the overall ranking is done on a relative basis --one user compared to the next. Just the way that a Top Ten would be. Plus, there are thousands of users who won't give everybody 1's, but rank people in some meaningful way. There are always individual aberrations, but over the course of 50-75 ratings from different people, one's overall user rating should be pretty close to a realistic appraisal of one's worth to the community, to the extent that such things can be measured.

If people have to judge me, let 'em do it by my Heatware rep, my eBay rep, or just watch and see what I do for the good of the TA community.

But that's supposedly what this User Rating is supposed to embodify, right (what you've done for the good of the AT community that is)? And heatware/eBay only says that you're not a thief.... it doesn't tell anything about your charm/intelligence/humour/helpfulness/etc., all of the things that are valued in a community of minds

EDIT: Bringing up ideas is a good thing though.. I'd give you a good rating.

Danke!

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: networkman
An interesting thought, except that there's no limit on the number of people that one can "rate" AND all ratings are final with no appeal available if someone gets a low rating. As it is now, a Member can go around and rate as many people as he or she can with a "1"(worst) for no reason whatsoever with complete impunity; this is one reason why quite a few people(including myself) have the rating turned off, because it doesn't mean anything.

If people have to judge me, let 'em do it by my Heatware rep, my eBay rep, or just watch and see what I do for the good of the TA community.

EDIT: Bringing up ideas is a good thing though.. I'd give you a good rating.

agreed, if you notice, women generally have a higher rating on this board, not because they are better, but because they are female. Many people on this board are so starved for sex that they feel the need to rate them higher.

 

[etech]

My aplogies, this will be short.

Why have a ranking system at all? We definately don't need one celebrating post count and personally I don't see the need to even have one based on other members opinions.

My vote is to just remove the top ten and leave it at that. It shouldn't take but just a minute to remove that one small bit of code from that one page.


If the "powers that be" have some reason for keeping it up on the today page I would really like an explantion as to why.

 

[FreeFrag]

Well, it's been a while since I've graced the AT Forums, but I'm back! I've been a member of the Overclockers Australia forums for about a year now (registered a day after they came back up) and we although I'm not sure what the problem is with your Off Topic Forum, we had problems with our "Pub".

I noticed that a few earlier posts have been discussing the issue of user ratings. We dont have them at OCAU....one reason being you will always get those people who go around rating everyone bad. This kind of tied in with people using Post Counts as a way to rate people, but then they started spamming in The Pub (OT Forum) so Agg (OCAU Owner) made posts in The Pub not count toward a user's post count. Although there was outcry at the start (mainly from the spammers) it was soon accepted and seems to be working well. Agg tied this in with his policy of "Forum Quality"; a reform of The Pub which allowed no crap to be posted. Abuse of other members, Pointless threads/posts, and discussion of illegal activities are now banished, and in some cases members have been dealt with by temp bans, and in one particular case, the member was banned indefinatly.

This has, to a point, improved the overall "quality" of The Pub, and reduced the amount of CRAP that was posted there. Although people complain about changes, most of the time they are for the best, which has been proved at OCAU

Kieran

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Azraele

Originally posted by: etech
So, would anyone in charge of the forums like to add their thoughts? Will this thread just turn out to be a forlorn gripe thread and the status quo maintained or will any of the suggestions be advanced to be debated and then acted on.

In other words, does anyone in charge care about the concerns with the direction of the forum that some of us have advanced?

I believe the mods had said that they're discussing it, though I don't know what, if anything, they've concluded.

Are they still discussing it?

A lot of suggestions have been made. It would be nice to have some feedback on what has or is being considered and if something has been rejected out of hand(top ten list removal) why it has been rejected. This is a forum of members. The mushroom theory should not be applied in this situation.

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