Warning: Nvidia GPUs do not play well with others

[bystander36]

So, while trying to repair the damage Nvidia's drivers did to Windows (although I'm pretty much resigned right now to the fact that I'm going to need to do a fresh install), the Nvidia display driver just completely refused to uninstall when I tried to remove it in safe mode. Awesome. Fortunately there are third party programs that can do the job, but this is seriously scary stuff.

I'm going to return the GTX 980 and go back to my 7970 until 20nm AMD cards come out. I can't even begin to explain how seriously disappointed I am in Nvidia right now. After this experience I can't see myself buying one of their products again -- their drivers are dangerously sub par.

When safe mode does not allow driver removal, you usually can remove the device in the device manager, which will take care of the driver issue as well.

 

[DooKey]

Anecdotal experience. Hope you next video card experience works out better.

 

[escrow4]

"I run a fairly unique setup: 3 1920*1200 screens in surround, a rift, and an HDMI audio device (Smyth Realiser) attached to the HDMI output from the integrated graphics from my 4770K. "

Which makes you irrelevant with an issue that Nvidia likely never bother testing. As someone mentions, the more exotic the hardware, the more it will never work right.

On Nvidia's drivers I certainly prefer them over AMD and I doubt I will ever switch sides again.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I have a Microsoft OS, a PNY SSD, a Seagate hard drive, a Hitachi-LG DVD-ROM, G.Skill and Mushkin RAM, an Antec PSU, and a Gigabyte motherboard sporting Realtek audio, hooked into a Microsoft keyboard, Razr mouse, Samsung CRT, and Technicolor modem, and my Nvidia 9600GT works fine.

 

[SolMiester]

I've had more problems in two days with my GTX 980 than I did over the two years I've owned my 7970. Interesting how real world experience seems to be the exact opposite of internet propaganda, although I'm sure there are people out there who have had the opposite experience to us just based on luck of the draw.

I'm left with the thought that AMD drivers probably do have more issues (you certainly see more problems on the AMD side when it comes to compatibility with new releases), but when they fail it's more or less elegant. Nvidia drivers probably fail less often, but when they do they are more often to fail spectacularly -- eg. needing to uninstall the driver just to get back into Windows, or having Windows corrupted entirely. I haven't seen anything even close to this bad happen because of Catalyst.

Sounds like you have a very complex setup, any part of which could be interfering with the Nvidia drivers or causing the issues with windows....Do you have another disk to do a fresh install with that doesnt mean you have to trash your existing build to do some clean testing?

 

[HurleyBird]

Sounds like you have a very complex setup, any part of which could be interfering with the Nvidia drivers or causing the issues with windows....Do you have another disk to do a fresh install with that doesnt mean you have to trash your existing build to do some clean testing?

I've already done a new clean install, the GTX 980 is out of my system now.

 

[garagisti]

@OP
Nvidia didn't have hd audio streaming, and only provided for bit-streaming LPCM multi-channel on most of their cards, except some which supported bit-streaming of hd audio formats. Though some users suggest that it changed with GTX7xx series, but some other users reported problem with it. Personally, it is one thing that will stop me from switching to Nvidia. I need a high performance card, which does audio pass-through well, and given what top of the line cards cost, it is not too much to ask really.

Erm, i think you will have not as many problems with Nvidia if you were using Intel processors without IGP. The software at best is dodgy, and what works in one version, was broken by Intel in an update (4k video on HD4000 on i7 processor for me on a laptop with AMD GPU). This is why i'm currently considering moving to either Haswell-E and pay Intel tax so as to not suffer from their poorly written software. Or, the other option is to perhaps stick with something from AMD. Although, the latter is not ideal, given the performance difference in some windows based tasks. Then again, such a system costs about a third of Intel system.

Try your Nvidia card in another system, hopefully one without intel graphics software. I think you will have positive results.

 

[HurleyBird]

Try your Nvidia card in another system, hopefully one without intel graphics software. I think you will have positive results.

I'm sure I would have good results if I wasn't trying to run anything out of a different display controller, but because Nvidia's HDMI audio output support is severely lacking I don't really have that choice.

If I need to choose between a $3000 Smyth Realiser and a $550 GTX 980, the Realiser is going to win every time.

 

[garagisti]

I'm sure I would have good results if I wasn't trying to run anything out of a different display controller, but because Nvidia's HDMI audio output support is severely lacking I don't really have that choice.

If I need to choose between a $3000 Smyth Realiser and a $550 GTX 980, the Realiser is going to win every time.

I'm saying that Nvidia has its own issues, but it is the Intel software, that you perhaps need to check. I didn't have a pleasant experience with it. I had to employ a solution which needed 3 displays to work, as my receiver doesn't support 4k resolution. TV's the other display than my laptop (ivyb i7). On mobile, Intel software doesn't support more than 2 displays at a time with Ivybridge which is what i have. Could be some similar problem for you. Intel hardware is catching up when it comes to igp's, but the software is properly shocking at times. In my experience, they deliberately make it worse, even removing features as i found out after updating to a newer version. Which is why i recommended testing it in another system. Then again, i guess it is certainly easier to have a different card which already worked than labouring over it.

This is why i'm considering going all AMD (not very great for gaming), or Haswell-E series, or with some cheap Xeon system. No more Intel graphics software. One can dream

 

[HurleyBird]

I'm saying that Nvidia has its own issues, but it is the Intel software, that you perhaps need to check.

I don't think so. Firstly, the Intel software works perfectly alongside my 7970. Secondly, as I mentioned the blank screen issue would persist even after I did away with all the Intel stuff, and was only cured by removing Nvidia's drivers. Thirdly, the Intel support rep I talked to didn't see any reason both display adapters couldn't work together whereas I was told by two separate Nvidia reps that the combination wouldn't work.

 

[Mondozei]

I just wanted to escape the hell that was AMD's drivers.

This is literally ten times worse than all of the issues I've experienced with AMD's drivers COMBINED

The irony here is pretty supreme, but also indicative of the disconnect of the narrative of the "bad AMD drivers" and the opposite reality.

Yes, AMD had bad drivers, but that's no longer the case and hasn't been the case for at least a year if not longer.
People's perception are lagging. Just like we got a lot of high-quality TN panels around this time, whether it is for 4K monitors or the 1440p ROG Swift, people's heads are stuck in the past.
We all heard the whining about TN panels, even if reality was different. Same with "bad AMD drivers".

Generally speaking, you could ask Nvidia for help or at least monetary compensation if it all come to blows. They are, in part, responsible for this.

 

[HurleyBird]

Well, unlike NCIX Newegg doesn't like having items returned, so I guess I'm stuck with it. Maybe, just maybe, things will work better with a fresh Windows installation.

 

[DominionSeraph]

The irony here is pretty supreme, but also indicative of the disconnect of the narrative of the "bad AMD drivers" and the opposite reality.

Eh? While Nvidia drivers may not play well if you're trying to link up to INMARSAT with your CD-ROM laser through Realtek audio drivers, AMD drivers tend to have difficulties making their products work as graphics cards.

 

[iiiankiii]

Eh? While Nvidia drivers may not play well if you're trying to link up to INMARSAT with your CD-ROM laser through Realtek audio drivers, AMD drivers tend to have difficulties making their products work as graphics cards.

Except AMD doesn't have any more difficulties making products work as graphic cards than Nvidias. I've both AMD and Nvidia. They both have their shares of problems. Honestly, it varies from game to game. Marketing and perception is powerful.

 

[bystander36]

The problem is, this is not supported by Nvidia. So it isn't a matter of poorly supporting this feature. It is a matter of not having support for this feature.

You can't complain about the drivers, when that setup isn't supported.

 

[HurleyBird]

The problem is, this is not supported by Nvidia. So it isn't a matter of poorly supporting this feature. It is a matter of not having support for this feature.

You can't complain about the drivers, when that setup isn't supported.

Once again, not having compatibility issues with other hardware, specifically the most abundant display controllers in the world (Intel) is not a feature, it's a fundamental tenant of PC architecture.

 

[amenx]

I would venture that 99% of people who buy Nvidia cards dont give rats hiny about HDMI audio connections in their system and would probably opt for a decent sound card + regular connections if its an either/or choice between HDMI audio or a change of a highly regarded GPU. I can appreciate that there are dedicated sound enthusiasts with costly specialist equipment where the opposite matters more. But I doubt they are even 1 percenters, but rather fractions of that. And here the issue (that affects an extreme minority of peeps to the point of intense grief) is conflated as a big AMD vs Nvidia drivers problem that others should heed as a "warning". Classic.

 

[bystander36]

Once again, not having compatibility issues with other hardware, specifically the most abundant display controllers in the world (Intel) is not a feature, it's a fundamental tenant of PC architecture.

If you want to complain, complain that they don't support this feature, not that their drivers are bad at this feature. They told you what you want cannot be done, yet you keep trying and acting as if the drivers are bad. They just aren't designed for what you want.

 

[3DVagabond]

If you want to complain, complain that they don't support this feature, not that their drivers are bad at this feature. They told you what you want cannot be done, yet you keep trying and acting as if the drivers are bad. They just aren't designed for what you want.

It's not a feature. It's a fundamental operation of PC components to work in conjunction with each other. Especially the number one most used components, like Intel.

I don't consider that a lack of support, I consider that broken.

 

[amenx]

They told you what you want cannot be done, yet you keep trying and acting as if the drivers are bad. They just aren't designed for what you want.

I think it can be done and should be done. Just that they may not consider a priority if only an infinitesimally small number of peeps raise a stink about it.

 

[bystander36]

It's not a feature. It's a fundamental operation of PC components to work in conjunction with each other. Especially the number one most used components, like Intel.

I don't consider that a lack of support, I consider that broken.

Should they support it? Maybe, but they don't.

The point is, the complaint should be directed at the lack of support, and not the support given. No support is given, so it is not bad support. It is NO support.

Continuing to force it to work and complaining that it won't, after being told it won't is also rather hardheaded.

Complaining that AMD's support with this is bad, is also silly, as it too is not supported. He just managed to force it to work.

He should be complaining about the lack of support, not the quality of the support, as there is no quality to nothing.

 

[Vesku]

Have to consider that Nvidia has been adding a lot of features and driver updates recently, imo more so than historically. The 970/980 being Maxwell and not Kepler any owners are pretty much 'early adopters' in terms of stability and feature completeness. AMD had similar hiccups going from VLIW to GCN. Out of curiosity how does Nvidia handle having an AMD card in the same system, did you ever try putting your 7970 in just to see if the HDMI audio would work alongside the 980?

Shame Newegg isn't letting you return the card, are they simply refusing or sticking to their 15% restocking fee?

 

[HurleyBird]

Complaining that AMD's support with this is bad, is also silly, as it too is not supported.

Can you show me a statement from AMD to back up this claim? While AMD has their own driver problems working alongside Intel display controllers is not one of them.

Have to consider that Nvidia has been adding a lot of features and driver updates recently, imo more so than historically.

I hope you're right. In the meantime, disabling sleep mode seems to be the best course of action. I have a hunch that another workaround if I do need to restart my computer would just involve turning the HDMI audio device off until Windows has fully loaded, but I'm not going to test that until I need to.

Out of curiosity how does Nvidia handle having an AMD card in the same system, did you ever try putting your 7970 in just to see if the HDMI audio would work alongside the 980?

I haven't. If I did test it would be a mostly intellectual endeavourer as AMD's HDMI audio support is also far worse than Intel's, and having another graphics card in the system isn't exactly something I want.

Shame Newegg isn't letting you return the card, are they simply refusing or sticking to their 15% restocking fee?

Simply refusing. Whether or not you can return a component with the 15% restocking fee is determined on a per-component basis. I'll be more careful in the future when ordering parts from them.

 

[RussianSensation]

Eh? While Nvidia drivers may not play well if you're trying to link up to INMARSAT with your CD-ROM laser through Realtek audio drivers, AMD drivers tend to have difficulties making their products work as graphics cards.

So how come then R9 290X CF/295X2 is smoother than 780Ti SLI in 4K and multi-monitor gaming?

Also, I find that while NV cards perform very well in popular titles, they can be inferior to AMD's for older games, modded games and less popular titles that NV doesn't care to optimize for.

HL2: black mesa mod = 7950 is as fast as a 680!

A beautiful game you've never heard of but might want to play on Steam because you are bored of mainstream titles - but NV hasn't heard of this game either it seems. :$

Similarly, there are certain games that require a profile for CF to work while SLI might work out of the box in the first week the game comes out.

Your claims that AMD drivers don't work for their gaming graphics are just a pigment of your imagination as I can find 20+ games where both AMD and NV drivers are equally broken. Your continuously one-sided view doesn't provide any objectivity into the discussion. There are plenty of games where SLI and CF don't work well and even popular games like Watch Dogs where 290X CF is 30-40% faster than 780Ti SLI / Titan SLI but you never bring those cases up for some reason.

 

[Eric1987]

Yeah I never understood why people complain about AMD's drivers. I don't notice a difference.