Want to buy an ATI card, but having doubts

[Acanthus]

If he can afford a 4850 X2 2GB for $210 that's far the fastest card on the market for its price - roughly 5850 performance level minus DX11.

I tend to try to dodge multi-card setups.

Even though there is a lot more support game-wise... theres still a lot of configuration i dont want to mess with every time i play a game.

 

[HannibalX]

I'm planning to build a new computer soon, and i'm having an awfully hard time deciding between the two graphic card brands.

I've been a long time user of nVidia cards, having 5-6 of them over the last two decades. I never had any problem whatsoever with them. However, the two times that I have become daring and purchased ATI cards, they have both had horrible problems which promptly got them returned. As you can guess, this makes me wary of ATI cards, even though I know it's anecdotal evidence.

Problem is, ATI cards are currently the only ones in my $100-$150 budget range (HD 5750 and HD 5770) that support DirectX 11. I think DX11 has a decent chance of taking off within the next five years, so for future proofing, i'd really like to buy one of those DX11 cards.

Even bigger problem is that according to newegg reviews, both the 5750 and 5770 have horrible driver problems on Win 7 64-bit, with crashes galore. I'm deathly afraid of crashes - I would go to terrible lengths to have a crash-proof PC like the one i've currently had for 6 years. And there lies my difficult decision between ATI or nVidia once again. Any advice to sway me one way or the other? (PS: the nVidia card i'm considering is the GTS 250.)

So how much is nVidia paying you?

 

[Jacky60]

Have to say that fan boy style loyalty to either manufacturer is misplaced. ATI are great as are Nvidia generally. I've owned loads of cards from both of them from Rage Fury Max and original Geforce to present day 4890 xfires. I'd buy ATI again -5970 ordered- but if Fermi performed better I'd buy that. Choose from trusted review sites like Anand and don't be get sucked into believing some of the dreadful obstinate 'Nvidia suck' or 'ATI are crap' nonsense that too often gets trotted out in forums.

 

[sandorski]

It's amazing how long such ideas last. ATI has been as good or better(at times) than Nvidia for many years now.

 

[mindless1]

I too find ATI cards (due to the drivers) far more problematic. I could care less if I get more performance per $ with ATI, which is the case right now, there is just too much wrong with the ATI philosophy about driver support.

ATI drivers are such a joke they never even fix glaring problems when the next series comes out, they just assume you will buy from them again. I still have servers I can't even uninstall the Rage Pro driver from, motherboards where it wouldn't allow setting custom resolutions, and people telling me I need special driver cleaners because they can't do a proper uninstall routine.

It's outrageous, even moreso that people try to imply this is as good as nVidia for many years.

Game bugs are a different matter, I do agree ATI has gotten more agressive in fixing those.

I'm no fanboy of nVidia, I am just against going through BS to get ATI software to work properly. Since most people seem to disagree, I've love for nVidia to pay me (lol) but then I wouldn't say a word as it would then truly be biased instead of a plain factual statement that ATI drivers have been much more problematic for me and my customers. The shame is, the opposite seems true of the hardware itself, I like ATI hardware more and the nVidia bumpgate fiasco left a bad taste in my mouth. Then there's Intel, far better debugging and the market leader. We need the more responsible people from these three companies to leave them behind and start a 4th video card company.

 

[Acanthus]

Their drivers have dramatically improved over the years.

I strongly suggest giving them a second chance if you were turned off by their drivers long ago.

They update more than nV nowadays.

 

[Tempered81]

I agree that the drivers don't do justice to the enormous potential engineered into the cards... kind of sad.

 

[Arkaign]

I agree that the drivers don't do justice to the enormous potential engineered into the cards... kind of sad.

Their cards are awesome. The drivers are better for the most part, but definitely not as historically solid as the NV drivers. NV did have a rough spot when they went from the 9x.xx to 1xx.xx, but overall their drivers are better.

^^ All that said, if you want to buy a single ATI GPU, there's never been a better time ever, perhaps besides the 9700p days.

 

[bryanW1995]

Thanks, that's something I hadn't considered. DX11 is more demanding on the video card than DX10, isn't it. So I would get more mileage out of running a card in DX10 at similar settings in theory.

I'm hoping to not have to upgrade the video card for at least 4-5 years. I should mention that I don't do a great deal of gaming on the computer, just a game or two a year. These are the specs of the prospective computer I intend to build. I'd like to stay in the $100-$150 range in the graphics card.

AMD Phenom II X4 955, 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM, 550W OCZ PSU with +12V1 @ 25A and +12V2 @ 25A, Gigabit GA-MA790GPT-UD3H Mobo, and Win7 64-bit as mentioned.

dx11 is actually easier on the graphics card but offers better performance. dx 10 was supposed to also be like that but didn't live up to expectations.

 

[Wreckage]

dx11 is actually easier on the graphics card but offers better performance. dx 10 was supposed to also be like that but didn't live up to expectations.

Granted there is not much to go on yet, but looking at the Dirt 2 benchmarks enabling DX11 causes a serious hit to performance. The sub $200 cards don't do very well.

 

[dguy6789]

Most games do not maintain the same detail level when you switch to a higher DX level. Newer Direct X versions are more efficient at running complex visuals, but pretty much every game that lets you pick between them increases the complexity of what is being rendered when you switch to the newer Direct X so you don't see an increase in performance in most cases.

 

[blanketyblank]

My 5770 has no problems playing dirt 2 in dx11. I'd suggest getting a 5770 now and a second later on if the price drops greatly or it's not performing well enough. Performance in crossfire will beat out a 5870 so it should be enough for anything and based on heaven benchmark it should play even demanding DX 11 games over 30 fps at 1900 x 1200 resolution. Honestly nothing is as future proof as money. So if you can save half the cost now and still get the performance you want, you can use the money you saved to get something better/cheaper in 2-3 years which would probably outperform the more expenisve present option.

 

[gmjimmy]

Since the HD5770 has been mentioned here quite a bit, which would you choose. The Sapphire Vapor-X or the base HD5770?? I just bought the HD5770 but haven't opened it yet. The reviews sound good.

http://techgage.com/article/sapphire_radeon_hd_5770_vapor-x/

 

[NoQuarter]

Base if you're going to leave it at stock speed is fine, Vapor-X could be worth it if you plan to overclock it or Crossfire. Since all the cards are ~$165 right now I'd grab the $165 XFX one just for the warranty though.

 

[dguy6789]

5770 Crossfire can only match a 5870 in the absolute best case scenario(100% scaling which almost never happens). At 100% scaling, it would only match a 5870, it wouldn't even beat it. A 5870 is superior to 5770 Crossfire.

 

[NoQuarter]

5770 Crossfire can only match a 5870 in the absolute best case scenario(100% scaling which almost never happens). At 100% scaling, it would only match a 5870, it wouldn't even beat it. A 5870 is superior to 5770 Crossfire.

They really got Crossfire working well now or something because the 5770 CF ties or beats the 5870 in every game (check 1920x1080 res): http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5770-hd5750-crossfirex_7.html

So it seems like it's no fluke and a safe way to plan.. but still I agree you should aim for the single best card you can get first, and use Crossfire as an upgrade path later on.

Also was really interested to find that a 5770+5750 in Crossfire actually performs as a sum of the two parts, ie halfway between 5750+5750 and 5770+5770.. rather than downgrading the 5770.

 

[Knowname]

bad reviews:

SAPPHIRE 100284L Radeon HD 5750 1GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-859-_-Product

XFX HD-575X-ZNFC Radeon HD 5750
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-448-_-Product
...

Here is the GTS 250 in comparison:
PNY VCGGTS2501XPB GeForce GTS 250 1GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...66-_-Product"]

one must remember that most ppl who speak up only do so cuz they have something to complain about. I'm perfectly happy to keep quiet when I'm happy. Keep that in mind when reading Newegg's reviews. Now there's also those that just like to tell the world about everything they got as well, but you can't really fault something that has a bunch of bad reviews, there may just be a lot of satisfied customers that had not spoken up.

 

[happy medium]

one must remember that most ppl who speak up only do so cuz they have something to complain about. I'm perfectly happy to keep quiet when I'm happy. Keep that in mind when reading Newegg's reviews. Now there's also those that just like to tell the world about everything they got as well, but you can't really fault something that has a bunch of bad reviews, there may just be a lot of satisfied customers that had not spoken up.

I also have some worries about the 5xxx series line up....

It's not just newegg reviews ,Tomshardware is one site that seems to have the guts to post thats there is indeed something wrong .

Read this..

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ATI-Radeon-Gray-Screen-Crash,9529.html?xtmc=radeon&xtcr=1

As a 5750 owner, I can tell you these problems are real guys.

A thread on our forum also..

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2046540

 

[Knowname]

Nobody's denying the existance of bugs in either camp, we're just saying their not deal breakers :| if nvidea's h/w is better, buy nvidea. if ati's h/w is better buy ati.

 

[happy medium]

Nobody's denying the existance of bugs in either camp, we're just saying their not deal breakers :| if nvidea's h/w is better, buy nvidea. if ati's h/w is better buy ati.

I made the switch about a week or 2 ago from a gtx 260 and I have been having some problems. Random? yes, but problems never the less.

I can tell you this, my drivers for my ti 4400,7800gs,8800gt,9800gtx 1gb and my gtx 260 never gave me one problem in 7 or so years.

Not knocking ATI but, I hope they fix these issues or no crossfire for me.:\

 

[Acanthus]

I made the switch about a week or 2 ago from a gtx 260 and I have been having some problems. Random? yes, but problems never the less.

I can tell you this, my drivers for my ti 4400,7800gs,8800gt,9800gtx 1gb and my gtx 260 never gave me one problem in 7 or so years.

Not knocking ATI but, I hope they fix these issues or no crossfire for me.:\

Fresh format?

 

[happy medium]

Fresh format?

2 month old windows 7 which ran my gtx 260 just fine.
Did the safe mode driver sweeper thing also.

 

[bryanW1995]

They're all great cards for casual gaming so don't overthink it. In your case, I'd wait until the Fermi release comes out. (If you don't want to wait, just use the IGP short-term -- the 790GX works just fine for low-res gaming.)

Then pounce on the 5770 or GTS 250 -- whichever has the best deal at that time. The 5850 is unlikely to drop into your price range, but if it does so much the better.

um, how is a high end release going to drop prices on the mid/low end? are you expecting them to drastically drop prices as gts 250 goes eol or 5850 drops in price? There is an enormous price gap between 5770 and 5850, so don't expect even a drastic 5850 price drop to immediately lower 5770 prices. And nvidia isn't rolling out anything expected to be priced below $300 anytime soon, so...um...yeah....

I'm not saying that the OP shouldn't wait, but if he does it should be to snag a better price on 5850 or its fermi equivalent. Or maybe 5830 will finally come out one of these days and finally render 4890 obsoleet.

 

[JACKDRUID]

I'm planning to build a new computer soon, and i'm having an awfully hard time deciding between the two graphic card brands.

I've been a long time user of nVidia cards, having 5-6 of them over the last two decades. I never had any problem whatsoever with them. However, the two times that I have become daring and purchased ATI cards, they have both had horrible problems which promptly got them returned. As you can guess, this makes me wary of ATI cards, even though I know it's anecdotal evidence.

Problem is, ATI cards are currently the only ones in my $100-$150 budget range (HD 5750 and HD 5770) that support DirectX 11. I think DX11 has a decent chance of taking off within the next five years, so for future proofing, i'd really like to buy one of those DX11 cards.

Even bigger problem is that according to newegg reviews, both the 5750 and 5770 have horrible driver problems on Win 7 64-bit, with crashes galore. I'm deathly afraid of crashes - I would go to terrible lengths to have a crash-proof PC like the one i've currently had for 6 years. And there lies my difficult decision between ATI or nVidia once again. Any advice to sway me one way or the other? (PS: the nVidia card i'm considering is the GTS 250.)

DX11 is a non-issue... any videocard bought today would probably go obsolite by the time DX11 become popular.

make your decision based on:

software:
ATI software isn't as good as nvidia, but it isn't bad... still not as good but its not bad at all.

Physx:
Nvidia is the only one supporting it now... big deal for me but not so much for others. I have played at my friend's house and it REALLY makes the game better if the game supports it.

speed and dx11:
ATI won no question about it... I would prefer Nvidia winning however ATI has done an undeniable job uping price/performance.

 

[zerocool84]

DX11 is a non-issue... any videocard bought today would probably go obsolite by the time DX11 become popular.

make your decision based on:

software:
ATI software isn't as good as nvidia, but it isn't bad... still not as good but its not bad at all.

Physx:
Nvidia is the only one supporting it now... big deal for me but not so much for others. I have played at my friend's house and it REALLY makes the game better if the game supports it.

speed and dx11:
ATI won no question about it... I would prefer Nvidia winning however ATI has done an undeniable job uping price/performance.

There's practically no good games that use Physx well at all to make a difference and the ones that are good, the Physx effects aren't that big at all to sway someone from one card to another. This is my first ATI card ever and I'm extremely happy I bought it. Just buy the card with the better bang for the buck and that's what ATI offers and the #1 reason why I went with them.