china manipulates is currency too be cheaper than it overwise should be. i'm surprised you aren't having an aneurysm over it
brandonbull
Diamond Member
- May 3, 2005
- 6,365
- 1,223
- 126
So you think the people working at Walmart are better off sewing clothes at a sweatshop?
Yes, the people that were in manufacturing are now working for Apple and the Googles. Kids these days don't have to go work at the plant after graduating high school. Now they go to college and get recruited to work for corporations.
brandonbull
Diamond Member
- May 3, 2005
- 6,365
- 1,223
- 126
Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 39,230
- 701
- 126
Have you been to a US manufacturing plant? I bet you've not so far as seen the outside of one much less being inside one. Sweatshop my ass. We're not talking about the foreign sweatshops that Walmart and other stores get their shit from. We're talking about quality US manufacturing jobs in decent plants and good working conditions + benefits.
Bullshit that the millions of folks that used to make stuff now work for Apple and Google. Those same folks now work for Walmart and other low paying jobs with little to no benefits just to make a living (and that's usually low enough they they get some of your and my tax money in form of EIC's and Medicaid).
CrackRabbit
Lifer
- Mar 30, 2001
- 16,642
- 62
- 91
Have any of you been in a K-mart, Rite-Aid or Toys R' Us recently?
They are the cause of their own problems, the stores are outdated, disorganized, generally dirty and staffed by people that don't care to improve any of it.
The Rite-Aid I used to live close to hadn't been remodeled since the late seventies and still used POS equipment from when Ronald Reagan was still in office. The merchandise didn't make much sense (who goes to a pharmacy to buy a crap vacuum cleaner or pots and pans?), and the store had a yellow dinginess to everything.
The only reason I ever went in there was because it was next to the laundromat where I washed my clothes and I could get a cold drink there when the coolers weren't broken.
How is any of that Wal-Mart's fault?
They are the cause of their own problems, the stores are outdated, disorganized, generally dirty and staffed by people that don't care to improve any of it.
The Rite-Aid I used to live close to hadn't been remodeled since the late seventies and still used POS equipment from when Ronald Reagan was still in office. The merchandise didn't make much sense (who goes to a pharmacy to buy a crap vacuum cleaner or pots and pans?), and the store had a yellow dinginess to everything.
The only reason I ever went in there was because it was next to the laundromat where I washed my clothes and I could get a cold drink there when the coolers weren't broken.
How is any of that Wal-Mart's fault?
The problem is how do you convince Americans to pay more for their "stuff"? People bitch about outsourcing all day long but most will gladly buy a Chinese made shirt if its a buck cheaper. Walmart is not the problem, the problem is the consumer.
Just wait until the Chinese start selling us cars. WE will gladly run the remainder of our auto sector out of business to save a few bucks.
I agree with you on what the problem is, unfortunately I have no good or feasible ideas on how to fix it.
Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 39,230
- 701
- 126
You're right, you can't. They cut their nose off spite their face. Not realizing that they are the very reason that their own pay isn't advancing at a faster pace (if at all after inflation). We will become a nation of people selling cheap shit to each other. I guess it will work OK as long as we can keep the printing presses going and the rest of the world taking our paper for their plastic.
I find it amusing that most people think that offshoring manufacturing only removes low paying operator jobs. That's so far from the truth, it isn't funny (I've seen it first hand for nearly a decade as hundreds if not thousands of skilled trade workers as well as college educated alike (engineers, managers, quality personnel, designers, research, etc) are displaced as the factories move offhsore (not to mention the tax base that those factories take with them).
Technically, WalMart is known for making manufacturers "adjust" how things are made to make them cheaper. Product quality may often be sacrificed to get it sold at WalMart.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
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Really? Can you give a name brand example of two products, with different manufacturing standards?
Sweat shop crap. I only buy Japanese selvedge denim. The workers make between $14 and $20 an hour.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
It is different because Walmart uses their size to bully manufacturers. It is very similar to how the mob worked in the 1920's. Ours is the only store in this community, if you want to succeed you sell at our price or fail. The walmart slogan is well known by manufacturers "keep the lowest price at any cost", not at all like the founder wanted. Read up on what happened with Levi Strauss. Levi could not keep up with the demand from walmart to lower prices and stay a USA company, so they sold out and thousands of Americans lost jobs. Now Levi is a joke brand, it isn't quality anymore.
When you sign a contract with walmart you agree to sell to them 5% cheaper every year. Many companies cannot do that and keep quality high. I have to commend Snapper mowers. They were sold at walmart, but when walmart told them to lower the quality of the product so walmart could sell it cheaper, Snapper refused and ended the contract.
about walmart:
You can say that kmart, target ,etc all do the same thing, but the difference is how they do it. It is one thing to choose manufacturers who want to sell at one price, it is another thing entirely if you force the manufacturer to sell at a price . Many cities only have walmart as the main retailer. If walmart tells a manufacturer, lower your price or you can't sell in this city, how is that not mob like tactics ?
halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
- 25,696
- 1
- 81
Yeah but they keep a spread from the chinese made stuff, so it's arguably a net loss for consumers.
If I can replace a US made widget with a cost of $1 ($1.5 retail) by a chinese made widget with a cost of $0.3, I can now sell it for $1 (lower price) AND increase my margin by 20c.
So the cost if borne by the worker/consumer by losing jobs etc. and the benefit is borne by both consumer/worker and walmart. When you net it out, consumer/worker loses and walmart wins.
It's still more efficient to manufacture things there, but the above is an argument for unionizing and/or similar practices in companies that benefit from free trade. Otherwise you're looking a wealth transfer.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
- 25,696
- 1
- 81
It's moreso the issue of putting pressure on suppliers to move to LCM countries. CNBC had a good special on walmart and one of the former supplier was talking about his experience and how the walmart reps constantly dropped hints and suggestions that he should move his mfr. base.
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
- 9,002
- 115
- 106
Coming from a state that was once heavy into the textile industry, the answer is a resounding YES. The conditions, pay, and benefits were much better at the factories than at walmart.
Sept 9, 2009
Wal-Mart will settle the lawsuit brought by 116,000 California workers who won a landmark $172 million judgment against the company in 2005 for illegally denying them meal breaks.
In its quarterly report filed Wednesday, the world's largest retailer revealed that it had agreed July 13 to settle the class-action lawsuit led by prominent Sonoma County attorney Fred Furth.
The suit, Savaglio v. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc., accused the company of denying its workers meal and rest breaks.
State law require employers to provide an unpaid 30-minute meal break after five hours of work, and a second such break if the employee works more than 10 hours per day.
?I think it sends a message that Wal-Mart wants to get these kinds of practices behind them,? Furth said. ?I think it also sends a message to other companies that the law on meal breaks is a serious law.?
Wal-Mart officials could not be reached for comment Wednesday.
An Alameda County Superior Court jury in 2005 ordered the company to pay $57 million in general damages and $115 million in punitive damages following a three-month trial. The company appealed.
In July, Wal-Mart agreed to pay between $77 million and $152 million, depending on the number of current and former workers who step forward. The settlement is ?probably the largest employment lawsuit settlement in history,? Furth said.
Text
Wal-Mart will settle the lawsuit brought by 116,000 California workers who won a landmark $172 million judgment against the company in 2005 for illegally denying them meal breaks.
In its quarterly report filed Wednesday, the world's largest retailer revealed that it had agreed July 13 to settle the class-action lawsuit led by prominent Sonoma County attorney Fred Furth.
The suit, Savaglio v. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc., accused the company of denying its workers meal and rest breaks.
State law require employers to provide an unpaid 30-minute meal break after five hours of work, and a second such break if the employee works more than 10 hours per day.
?I think it sends a message that Wal-Mart wants to get these kinds of practices behind them,? Furth said. ?I think it also sends a message to other companies that the law on meal breaks is a serious law.?
Wal-Mart officials could not be reached for comment Wednesday.
An Alameda County Superior Court jury in 2005 ordered the company to pay $57 million in general damages and $115 million in punitive damages following a three-month trial. The company appealed.
In July, Wal-Mart agreed to pay between $77 million and $152 million, depending on the number of current and former workers who step forward. The settlement is ?probably the largest employment lawsuit settlement in history,? Furth said.
Text
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
Well, here's my view. And maybe its simplistic. Like it or not, we are in a world economy now. If I manufactured widgets at a cost of $2.00, and a company like WalMart approached me and suggested I move operations, I would look into it. If I found I could have the same widget made in Mexico for a net cost of $1.65, added to a contract from the largest retailer in the world to market my widget, you bet your ass I would do it.
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