Walk away or take the beating?

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AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: osgoor
This is one of the reasons I have my carry permit. I will do my best to avoid the confrontation but I am taking a beating from no one.

Trust an American to turn a fist fight into a gun fight. :disgust:

Coming from someone who lives in a country populated with Soccer hooligans who travel to other countries to make asses of themselves, you have a lot to be proud of.
stfu
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
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Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: osgoor
This is one of the reasons I have my carry permit. I will do my best to avoid the confrontation but I am taking a beating from no one.

Trust an American to turn a fist fight into a gun fight. :disgust:

Why should innocent people suffer a beat down if they try everything possible to avoid the conflict (which they didn't even instigate)?

If you have a CCW, can you legally draw your weapon in defense if you are threatened by seemingly unarmed people?

Given the size of the other guys who were egging the other guy on, I would say there could be a legitimate fear for ones life.
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
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Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: Raduque
Originally posted by: Atheus

I side with not shooting people, is that so difficult to understand?

If someone punches you - punch back. Only a coward would use a firearm for 'defense' in this case.

Actually, what's hard to understand is why you would take it. If it's completely unprovoked (as was the OPs situation), would you simply start fighting for no reason? I know I wouldn't. I'd do as the OP did and turn and walk away. I'm not going to get hit for something I haven't done - and those drunk asses would learn it the hard way. The gun wouldn't come out till there was no other option.

No option other than fighting fair that is.

There is no such thing as a "fair fight"on the street.

There are no Marquis of Queensbury rules in a street fight.
There are no rules at all in a street fight.
Check with your soccer buddies for confirmation on that.
You're foolish to think otherwise.

IF I am forced to engage someone on the street, he is only moments away from real hurt.
I will, and have, used objects at hand to achieve dominance of a situation, and if I believe I can't achieve that level in a matter of seconds, I will, and have, run like hell.
Living = winning in a street fight.

Standing toe to toe and boxing it out is only in the movies.
 

AlienCraft

Lifer
Nov 23, 2002
10,539
0
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Originally posted by: Atheus

If they are stronger and faster and better than me whose fault is that? Only mine. Should have trained harder or swallowed my pride and run away. If they don't have guns you can always run away, it's not worth a life, even the life of a thug.

OK - if you were cornered in an alley with no help in sight and there were 5 big guys saying 'we dont want your money were just gonna beat you to death' then it might be accepable. That was *not* the OP's situation however.
You can make up situations to fit your rationale until the cows come home.
It still has no basis in what really happens in a street fight, something you obviously only know in the academic sense.



 

Dudewithoutapet

Golden Member
Oct 10, 2005
1,854
0
76
I'm proud of you. I'm sure the girls appreciated you not getting into a fight. Shows you're more mature than a bunch of hicks.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Anyone who mentions CCW in this thread should lose theirs.

He was DRINKING and in and out of BARS. He also had the opportunity to WALK AWAY.

He was CHALLENGED. NOT threatened.

All of these are perfect examples of when NOT to brandish a weapon.

Anyone who pulled and fired on these idiots would be charged with murder.
 

michaels

Banned
Nov 30, 2005
4,329
0
0
Memphis's crime problem is out of control, just over Memorial Day weekend there was 6 or 7 murders. And you do not wanna stray past Beale, that is where all the gang bangers hang.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
68
91
Antisocial, aggressive people are in prisons for a reason. Most of the guys who pick fights like that are going to end up in prison, or at least go to jail a few times... which will lead to them losing their jobs and spiraling down into lower class where they belong.

I know the thought of "showing them you're a man" is very tempting... but you did the right thing.
How do you explain to your employer that the reason you weren't at work on Monday was because some guys were talking trash to you, so you punched them, got your ass kicked and spent the weekend in jail.

This situation will play over and over again in your head. Yeah, you could have punched the trash talker as soon as he walked up to you. Yeah, you could have kicked him in the nuts. Yeah, you could have tackled him and put him in a choker hold and made him sing "I'm a little teapot" for his friends.

But... you did the right thing. You are not trash.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,997
37,170
136
Originally posted by: Amused
Anyone who mentions CCW in this thread should lose theirs.

He was DRINKING and in and out of BARS. He also had the opportunity to WALK AWAY.

He was CHALLENGED. NOT threatened.

All of these are perfect examples of when NOT to brandish a weapon.

Anyone who pulled and fired on these idiots would be charged with murder.

Most of that was in relation to similar situations where physical violence has already started, not necessarily the OP's situation.

 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Amused
Anyone who mentions CCW in this thread should lose theirs.

He was DRINKING and in and out of BARS. He also had the opportunity to WALK AWAY.

He was CHALLENGED. NOT threatened.

All of these are perfect examples of when NOT to brandish a weapon.

Anyone who pulled and fired on these idiots would be charged with murder.

Most of that was in relation to similar situations where physical violence has already started, not necessarily the OP's situation.

I just saw comments hwere people said "this is why I CCW." But I'll admit I skimmed over the posts.

At any rate, it's NEVER a good idea to CCW when bar hopping and drinking. If you want to CCW, you should be stone cold sober.
 

oldsystem

Member
May 21, 2007
36
0
0
Been bugging you!!???! You said that these people pick fights. Why would you give them what they wanted? Your nite went on, be thankful you made that choice.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,997
37,170
136
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Amused
Anyone who mentions CCW in this thread should lose theirs.

He was DRINKING and in and out of BARS. He also had the opportunity to WALK AWAY.

He was CHALLENGED. NOT threatened.

All of these are perfect examples of when NOT to brandish a weapon.

Anyone who pulled and fired on these idiots would be charged with murder.

Most of that was in relation to similar situations where physical violence has already started, not necessarily the OP's situation.

I just saw comments hwere people said "this is why I CCW." But I'll admit I skimmed over the posts.

At any rate, it's NEVER a good idea to CCW when bar hopping and drinking. If you want to CCW, you should be stone cold sober.

True enough.
 

JDMnAR1

Lifer
May 12, 2003
11,984
1
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: Amused
Anyone who mentions CCW in this thread should lose theirs.

He was DRINKING and in and out of BARS. He also had the opportunity to WALK AWAY.

He was CHALLENGED. NOT threatened.

All of these are perfect examples of when NOT to brandish a weapon.

Anyone who pulled and fired on these idiots would be charged with murder.

Most of that was in relation to similar situations where physical violence has already started, not necessarily the OP's situation.

I just saw comments hwere people said "this is why I CCW." But I'll admit I skimmed over the posts.

At any rate, it's NEVER a good idea to CCW when bar hopping and drinking. If you want to CCW, you should be stone cold sober.

In most state regs I have read, it is illegal to carry when consuming alcohol. For that matter, here in Arkansas it is illegal to even carry into an establishment that servers alcohol where a certain percentage of their revenue is not generated by food sales.

 

DefDC

Golden Member
Aug 28, 2003
1,858
1
81
Originally posted by: eleison
Why is it always fair for the bigger man to intimidate the smaller guy? Walk away????? That makes no sense... How is it fair/right for the bigger guy to make fun of the smaller guy. What happens if the smaller guy is with a girl? Its called dignity... so its okay for the bigger man to take away the guys dignity -- in front of his girl that he's trying to impress?

Its unfair. Just because someone can walk over a smaller person because they are bigger doesn't make it right. I say if people "really" want to fight. Bring out the guns. Everyone has rights too. Everyone should be allowed to have dignitiy. Its like calling someone's mom a biatch and a hole.... its not right... people should not be allowed to do it. People should not be made to "just walk away" like a coward.

Big tough guys who want to fight... do it in the boxing ring or the wrestling matt.. or the Ultimate fighting circuits... But bring it to the real world where people just want to live their lives peacefull... I have no qualms about bringing out the guns.. In a civilized environment, fighting is for idiiots who are asking for a 9mm bullet to the head...

Yeah. I believe that this is a lose/lose situation.

My natural instinct would have been to pick up my cell phone, dial 911, and say "Some thugs on X street are threating me with a GUN. Please send the police"

They, of course, would have said "What the hell? We didn't threaten you with a gun!".

And I would say, "Yes you did... Right after I looked at you funny".

And I would have walked away...


Use your noggin. No guns necessary. Pulling your gun will just make every @sshole carry one. Then we all lose.

Edit: Worser grammer
 

Juno

Lifer
Jul 3, 2004
12,574
0
76
if i were you, i wouldn't take the fight.

1. let them to hit you
2. report cops on them
3. ...
4. profit!
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Anyone who mentions CCW in this thread should lose theirs.

He was DRINKING and in and out of BARS. He also had the opportunity to WALK AWAY.

He was CHALLENGED. NOT threatened.

All of these are perfect examples of when NOT to brandish a weapon.

Anyone who pulled and fired on these idiots would be charged with murder.

That's rediculous. Any phyisical challenge to myself is dealt with as a threat. I don't take kindly to "fronting", whether it be rednecks or thugs.

Not everyone feels so comfortable with being surrounded by big stinky white bastards, who are intent on fighting you. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable turning my back on retards like this.

Stupid no good thugs should learn their place and back off, or learn the hard way. :thumbsdown:
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: Amused
Anyone who mentions CCW in this thread should lose theirs.

He was DRINKING and in and out of BARS. He also had the opportunity to WALK AWAY.

He was CHALLENGED. NOT threatened.

All of these are perfect examples of when NOT to brandish a weapon.

Anyone who pulled and fired on these idiots would be charged with murder.

That's rediculous. Any phyisical challenge to myself is dealt with as a threat. I don't take kindly to "fronting", whether it be rednecks or thugs.

Not everyone feels so comfortable with being surrounded by big stinky white bastards, who are intent on fighting you. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable turning my back on retards like this.

Stupid no good thugs should learn their place and back off, or learn the hard way. :thumbsdown:

ANY "threat" you can walk away from is NOT a situation in which you should brandish and/or fire your weapon.

The OP KNEW he could walk away from the start. He never doubted it. His only question was SHOULD he walk away.

The only person learning anything the "hard way" here will be you, when you are convicted of murder for shooting someone who is not an immediate threat to your life. And the fact that you'd be carrying and using your weapon while drinking will add mitigating circumstances to your conviction.

In short, you're a damn fool who should march down to the nearest sheriff's office and turn in your CCW permit... if you even have one.
 

JDMnAR1

Lifer
May 12, 2003
11,984
1
0
Originally posted by: Amused

ANY "threat" you can walk away from is NOT a situation in which you should brandish and/or fire your weapon.


Not saying I agree or disagree with you, but as I previously posted, in TN (where this occurred) there is no duty to retreat prior to either threatening to use, or using, deadly force to defend yourself. That in and of itself would not guarantee a conviction, but alcohol consumption could definitely be an issue.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: Amused
Anyone who mentions CCW in this thread should lose theirs.

He was DRINKING and in and out of BARS. He also had the opportunity to WALK AWAY.

He was CHALLENGED. NOT threatened.

All of these are perfect examples of when NOT to brandish a weapon.

Anyone who pulled and fired on these idiots would be charged with murder.

That's rediculous. Any phyisical challenge to myself is dealt with as a threat. I don't take kindly to "fronting", whether it be rednecks or thugs.

Not everyone feels so comfortable with being surrounded by big stinky white bastards, who are intent on fighting you. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable turning my back on retards like this.

Stupid no good thugs should learn their place and back off, or learn the hard way. :thumbsdown:

ANY "threat" you can walk away from is NOT a situation in which you should brandish and/or fire your weapon.

The OP KNEW he could walk away from the start. He never doubted it. His only question was SHOULD he walk away.

The only person learning anything the "hard way" here will be you, when you are convicted of murder for shooting someone who is not an immediate threat to your life. And the fact that you'd be carrying and using your weapon while drinking will add mitigating circumstances to your conviction.

In short, you're a damn fool who should march down to the nearest sheriff's office and turn in your CCW permit... if you even have one.

I don't own, have, or believe in firearms, and I don't drink alcohol, ever.

My point was that these people are pathetic and shouldn't be bullying people on the streets, and any injury or pain that comes to them is 100% their fault.

You make me laugh, Amused.

EDIT: Take a hypothetical situation into mind; These retards start fronting at a cop instead of a regular person. What is that cop going to do? He's going to take his night-stick/9mm out and threaten their health with it.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: JDMnAR1
Originally posted by: Amused

ANY "threat" you can walk away from is NOT a situation in which you should brandish and/or fire your weapon.


Not saying I agree or disagree with you, but as I previously posted, in TN (where this occurred) there is no duty to retreat prior to either threatening to use, or using, deadly force to defend yourself. That in and of itself would not guarantee a conviction, but alcohol consumption could definitely be an issue.

The guy I responded to is from MN:

624.7142 Carrying while under the influence of alcohol or a controlled substance.

Subdivision 1. Acts prohibited. A person may not carry a pistol on or about the person's clothes or person in a public place:

(1) when the person is under the influence of a controlled substance, as defined in section 152.01, subdivision 4;

(2) when the person is under the influence of a combination of any two or more of the elements named in clauses (1) and (4);

(3) when the person is knowingly under the influence of any chemical compound or combination of chemical compounds that is listed as a hazardous substance in rules adopted under section 182.655 and that affects the nervous system, brain, or muscles of the person so as to impair the person's clearness of intellect or physical control;

(4) when the person is under the influence of alcohol;

(5) when the person's alcohol concentration is 0.10 or more; or

(6) when the person's alcohol concentration is less than 0.10, but more than 0.04.

Subd. 2. Arrest. A peace officer may arrest a person for a violation under subdivision

He should know this if he really has a CCW permit.

At any rate, the OP knew he could walk away. The only thing that escalated that whole scene was his foolish pride.

And manowar821's foolish pride is going to land him in jail one day. He feels he has a right to use his CCW to "teach a lesson" to bullies rather than just walk away.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: manowar821

I don't own, have, or believe in firearms, and I don't drink alcohol, ever.

My point was that these people are pathetic and shouldn't be bullying people on the streets, and any injury or pain that comes to them is 100% their fault.

You make me laugh, Amused.

I make you laugh???

You're advocating breaking numerous laws and landing a CCW holder in jail... and I make YOU laugh?

Your point was absurd.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: manowar821

I don't own, have, or believe in firearms, and I don't drink alcohol, ever.

My point was that these people are pathetic and shouldn't be bullying people on the streets, and any injury or pain that comes to them is 100% their fault.

You make me laugh, Amused.

I make you laugh???

You're advocating breaking numerous laws and landing a CCW holder in jail... and I make YOU laugh?

Your point was absurd.

Tell me where in my responses did I mention breaking any laws?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: manowar821

I don't own, have, or believe in firearms, and I don't drink alcohol, ever.

My point was that these people are pathetic and shouldn't be bullying people on the streets, and any injury or pain that comes to them is 100% their fault.

You make me laugh, Amused.

I make you laugh???

You're advocating breaking numerous laws and landing a CCW holder in jail... and I make YOU laugh?

Your point was absurd.

Tell me where in my responses did I mention breaking any laws?

When you posted this pile of crap:

Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: Amused
Anyone who mentions CCW in this thread should lose theirs.

He was DRINKING and in and out of BARS. He also had the opportunity to WALK AWAY.

He was CHALLENGED. NOT threatened.

All of these are perfect examples of when NOT to brandish a weapon.

Anyone who pulled and fired on these idiots would be charged with murder.

That's rediculous. Any phyisical challenge to myself is dealt with as a threat. I don't take kindly to "fronting", whether it be rednecks or thugs.

Not everyone feels so comfortable with being surrounded by big stinky white bastards, who are intent on fighting you. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable turning my back on retards like this.

Stupid no good thugs should learn their place and back off, or learn the hard way. :thumbsdown:
 

eleison

Golden Member
Mar 29, 2006
1,319
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused

ANY "threat" you can walk away from is NOT a situation in which you should brandish and/or fire your weapon.

The OP KNEW he could walk away from the start. He never doubted it. His only question was SHOULD he walk away.

The only person learning anything the "hard way" here will be you, when you are convicted of murder for shooting someone who is not an immediate threat to your life. And the fact that you'd be carrying and using your weapon while drinking will add mitigating circumstances to your conviction.

In short, you're a damn fool who should march down to the nearest sheriff's office and turn in your CCW permit... if you even have one.



Agreed... don't branish the gun. Just yell out: "Stop harrashing me!!! I've done nothing to you and your drunk buddies. I am smaller than you, but I have a gun and I WILL BRING IT OUT if you insist on trying to start a fight... "

That is within the laws (assuming you are kosher with CCW)... also in 99.99% of the cases, the big bad ultimate fighter wannables will leave you in peace and maybe pick on someone their own size or someone with the same numbers...

Besides, in most cases, if you are smaller than them and have no fear... in places where there are CCW. The bigger guys will assume you have a gun. It happened to my dad. Some guy tried to start something threating my dad by saying "you know I'm twice as big as you. If I wanted I can throw you in the river without even sweating". My dad stood his ground... basically saying, "if you want to start somthing, I've like to see you try.. take one more step and you are going to be in a world of hurt..." obviously, my dad having his hand in is pocket made the guy think twice (actually, my dad was carrying). It quickly difused after that and nobody got hurt.