"WAKE UP AMERICA. AND CANADA"

[kogase]

Originally posted by: BBond
I think someone is pulling the OP's leg and e-mailed them a Rush Limbaugh Show trasncript.

Hmm... I thought Michael Savage was the big paranoid W.A.S.P. pundit?

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Just thought I'd point out that Canada has been an Official MultiCultural/MultiLingual Nation for a long time. Multicultural for some 30 years, Multilingual since its' inception in 1867. Despite some issues between Quebec and the rest of the Country things have been going very well.

I think the article/speech is a load of crap. Even though Multiculturalism would appear to cause Multiple Societies to exist, in reality most Immigrants assimilate into the greater Society and within a few generations it is hard to differentiate between all the varied Cultures as they Mix together anyway. What he seems to fear is the fact that Immigrants don't simply adopt the "American" Culture, but actually change the "American" culture. From the begining of the US, Immigrants have been changing the existing culture in the US, so it appears to me like the guy doesn't even understand that what he fears has been the norm for centuries already.

Sandorski, have you lived in Canada and where? While the various groups that formed the bulk of the early Canadian immigration (Scottish, Irish, English, Ukrainians, Italians) have both formed a homogenious society and simultaneously maintained their culture, this is no longer the case with the largest immigrant groups. The case nowadays with the Chinese, and some smaller immigrant groups is that they DO NOT assimilate into the greater society, as you put it. I've taught 3rd generation Chinese kids in Vancouver who barely speak English, let alone French. Most of them will never go out of their community, they will shop in Chinese stores in Richmons, read the Chinese press, watch theChinese TV, and probably work in some of the small Chinese companies in the area whose workforce is 100% Chinese. Of course, Victor Chan (look him up), is very vocal about the workforce of other companies being "representative" of the diverse population of the Vancouver area.

On the other hand, Canada has little problem with illegal immigration, I have to commend them for having well-defined immigration policies and following them.

Contrast that with the situation here, where illegal immigration is rampant and no one wants to do anything about it. The Mexicans are openly talking about the re-conquest of California, Arizona, etc., and their government is up in arms whenever some benefits are denied to illegal immigrants. This is really hypocritical, since the Mexican government have one of the strictest immigration policies. Have you tried to work in Mexico without paperwork? A relative of mine worked as researcher in a Mexican university for six months. She was fingerprinted, her passport was taken and returned when she was left, she had absolutely no rights to any of the benefits provided by the Mexican government, etc, etc.

Countries of South America are taking notice of the failed immigration policy of the US, and to a certain degree in Canada. I remember when I was applying for a visa to Chile for the first time, I was shocked when the consul casually mentioned that I was lucky I was not from Asia as they have very strict visa requirements for Chinese, Koreans, etc. He said that they don't want to become the California or Canada of the immigration debacle. Imagine my surprise when a few years later I was talking to an official in the Brasilian consulate in LA, and he basically said the same thing.

 

[ValuedCustomer]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer
Think about this: I decide I want to live in Portugal. I stow away on a boat, sneak off when I get to a port and forgo any legal "hassles" to make myself legal.. and then proceed to start making demands or at least start to expect the good folks of Portugal to educate me and my family, learn my language, pay my medical bills, provide me w/ driving license etc and generally change their way of doing things cuz I'm from a different culture who's traditions and values are some how as important as the country's who I just invaded. - that wouldn't be real cool would it? As a matter of fact I'd likely be considered that ugly-American the world so despises.. so how come what's good for the goose is somehow NOT good for the gander?

Huh?

uh, it's called a hypothetical example/scenario. think about it. - it wasn't in reply to your little rant, btw.

Ok, fair enough. It doesn't work that way though. 1 person and their family doesn't make a Community. Now if 10s of thousands did the same and lived in a certain local location, then there might be a need for such things. However, in Canada anyway, Multiculturalism doesn't go as far as providing schools and other forms of services. Schools still teach the Official Language(French in Quebec, English everywhere else), but in many parts of the country Government services can be had in many unOfficial languages, especially in Courts.

About the only thing the Government does unique to each Culture is that it provides funding for the establishment of Cultural Centers for each Culture of significant size where those persons can gather together and do whatever. They also are a good way for that particular Culture to interface with the Greater Community. In these parts(Greater Vancouver, BC) there are Italian, Croatian, Korean, and many other Cultural centers and one of the annual events are when the Italian Cultural Center holds their festival celebrating their culture with Food and other attractions. Other times important persons from the Home Country of particular Cultures use the Cultural Centers as a gathering place.

These Centers also provide a Political Voice to Immigrants and often raise concerns regarding situations(often very bad) in their Homelands. They also provide an Interface between certain Immigrant groups and the Police as many Immigrants come from Nations where the Police are feared so cooperation is quite difficult.

Probably the best effect of this policy though is that many Immigrants have actually returned to their Homelands to help initiate and guide Political Change. In the spotlight the last few years a number of Iranian-Canadian Immigrants have been very active in promoting change in Iran, sadly 1 such person, Zahra Kazemi, ended up giving her life in one such endeavour.

Certainly some groups bring their conflicts with them, Hindus/Punjabis, Jews/Arabs, and Croats/Serbs are some examples where incidents have occured, though there haven't been any significant clashes to speak of, just verbal exchanges for the most part. This is inevitable Multiculturalism or not, First Generation Immigrants carry a certain level of baggage from their Home country. Multicultural Centers actually help to alleviate such tensions though, as each side can be much better reached through Police or other Government Ministries to try and resolve such tensions.

I betcha we disagree about the good & bad w/ this issue but thanks very much for the information/somethin' to think about. :beer: --- that is what we're all here for, right? 😉

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer

Originally posted by: Kenazo
Wow, that's pretty harsh. Though to some extent I agree, in order for a country to be strong it needs to be united, however this guy seems to verge on the extreme.

I was sorta thinkin' the same thing at the first read but the more I thought about it (the gist) the more I think he's pretty darn right.

Member of NumberUSA?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: fornax

Originally posted by: sandorski
Just thought I'd point out that Canada has been an Official MultiCultural/MultiLingual Nation for a long time. Multicultural for some 30 years, Multilingual since its' inception in 1867. Despite some issues between Quebec and the rest of the Country things have been going very well.

I think the article/speech is a load of crap. Even though Multiculturalism would appear to cause Multiple Societies to exist, in reality most Immigrants assimilate into the greater Society and within a few generations it is hard to differentiate between all the varied Cultures as they Mix together anyway. What he seems to fear is the fact that Immigrants don't simply adopt the "American" Culture, but actually change the "American" culture. From the begining of the US, Immigrants have been changing the existing culture in the US, so it appears to me like the guy doesn't even understand that what he fears has been the norm for centuries already.

Sandorski, have you lived in Canada and where? While the various groups that formed the bulk of the early Canadian immigration (Scottish, Irish, English, Ukrainians, Italians) have both formed a homogenious society and simultaneously maintained their culture, this is no longer the case with the largest immigrant groups. The case nowadays with the Chinese, and some smaller immigrant groups is that they DO NOT assimilate into the greater society, as you put it. I've taught 3rd generation Chinese kids in Vancouver who barely speak English, let alone French. Most of them will never go out of their community, they will shop in Chinese stores in Richmons, read the Chinese press, watch theChinese TV, and probably work in some of the small Chinese companies in the area whose workforce is 100% Chinese. Of course, Victor Chan (look him up), is very vocal about the workforce of other companies being "representative" of the diverse population of the Vancouver area.

On the other hand, Canada has little problem with illegal immigration, I have to commend them for having well-defined immigration policies and following them.

Contrast that with the situation here, where illegal immigration is rampant and no one wants to do anything about it. The Mexicans are openly talking about the re-conquest of California, Arizona, etc., and their government is up in arms whenever some benefits are denied to illegal immigrants. This is really hypocritical, since the Mexican government have one of the strictest immigration policies. Have you tried to work in Mexico without paperwork? A relative of mine worked as researcher in a Mexican university for six months. She was fingerprinted, her passport was taken and returned when she was left, she had absolutely no rights to any of the benefits provided by the Mexican government, etc, etc.

Countries of South America are taking notice of the failed immigration policy of the US, and to a certain degree in Canada. I remember when I was applying for a visa to Chile for the first time, I was shocked when the consul casually mentioned that I was lucky I was not from Asia as they have very strict visa requirements for Chinese, Koreans, etc. He said that they don't want to become the California or Canada of the immigration debacle. Imagine my surprise when a few years later I was talking to an official in the Brasilian consulate in LA, and he basically said the same thing.

Born, raised, and lived in Canada for my total 39 years. Alberta(Fort McMurray)/British Columbia(in a small town in the middle of nowhere, Midway), now living in Coquitlam(just outside of Vancouver).

I won't deny that you may have seen a 3rd generation child who spoke Chinese, I'm sure that happens, but I think you're a little off on some things.

Richmond and the Chinese concentration there is a very recent phenomena. Well into the 1960's most Immigrants were of European descent. Now most Immigrants are of Asian descent coming from India. China, and all points in between. I think it's way too early to draw the conclusions you have, though it wouldn't surprise me that a Chinese Immigrant could live quite comfortably without knowing any English. They'll learn.

The groups you mentioned, "Scottish, Irish, English, Ukrainians, Italians, " have had a century or more to mix, and the first 3 were actually quite similar to begin with. Their initial arrivals were not without trouble, much the same you are implying with the current Immigrants. The current Immigration issues only really differentiate from previous issues in that the current Immigrants are for the most part very Visibly different.

I am not concerned or alarmed by this. Certainly Canada will be a very different country before I die, but so what? As long as Democracy, Liberty, and Prosperity is maintained for all, I'm not fearful of it.

 

[Jakebrake]

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door...as long as you speak english...and are white...and christian...

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Jakebrake
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door...as long as you speak english...and are white...and christian...

:thumbsup:

 

[Rainsford]

Different cultures in the same country can cause problems, yes, but think about these two points for a second. The first is whether or not an America with mostly white European immigrants should look different from an America with a mix of European, Hispanic, African and Asian immigrants. I think the answer is clearly yes for the very simple reason that culture is not some set of rules handed down by God. Culture should be a reflection of the people themselves. Let's be honest here, American culture initially developed through the different European cultures that came here. At no point was there a culture that every new immigrant had to conform to. I don't see why we have a right to deny that privledge to newer immigrants.

The second, and more important point, is that since culture is simply a reflection of the people, you can't dictate it. Whether or not you think America is being destroyed, there is very little you can do. You can make everyone learn English, and that's about it. A democracy such as we have can't tolerate attempts to dictate culture to anyone. I mean, how exactly do we make everyone coming in behave exactly like we do? That is the only way to find short term unity, unity will develop naturally given enough time, and a willingness on all sides to accept new cultures. And don't blame immigrants, this thread has made it clear that some Americans are just as stubborn when it comes to an unwillingness to accept real unity and not just conformity.

Now obviously there are issues that need dealing with, specifically the language issue, but those can be dealt with. And I know you guys will make a lot of noise about this not being true, but when you argue that other cultures have nothing positive to offer America (and that's the argument that's really being made), you might as well stamp racist on your forehead.

 

[ValuedCustomer]

Originally posted by: Jakebrake
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door...as long as you speak english...and are white...and christian...

Uh yea, sorry bub, this is about behavior not nationality and/or religious affiliation.. the race-card won't work on this one.. god forbid you enter a conversation w/out your crutches/labels :disgust: - you'll have to actually "think" this time.

 

[0marTheZealot]

I want to toss your salad (bowl).

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer

Originally posted by: Jakebrake
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door...as long as you speak english...and are white...and christian...

Uh yea, sorry bub, this is about behavior not nationality and/or religious affiliation.. the race-card won't work on this one.. god forbid you enter a conversation w/out your crutches/labels :disgust: - you'll have to actually "think" this time.

Sorry you can't handle the truth, but he is right.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
I want to toss your salad (bowl).

Dressing on the side, please.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer

Originally posted by: Jakebrake
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door...as long as you speak english...and are white...and christian...

Uh yea, sorry bub, this is about behavior not nationality and/or religious affiliation.. the race-card won't work on this one.. god forbid you enter a conversation w/out your crutches/labels :disgust: - you'll have to actually "think" this time.

Sorry you can't handle the truth, but he is right.

Yep. He's right alright.

The only mass migration of brown skinned people into the USA was on slave ships.

 

[BBond]

OH, or across the Mexican border.

 

[Vic]

Well... not surprisinging considering that he is a Democract. 😉

Probably not true though. Snopes.com says "research in progress" but I swear I have seen this "speech" years before.

 

[ValuedCustomer]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: ValuedCustomer

Originally posted by: Jakebrake
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door...as long as you speak english...and are white...and christian...

Uh yea, sorry bub, this is about behavior not nationality and/or religious affiliation.. the race-card won't work on this one.. god forbid you enter a conversation w/out your crutches/labels :disgust: - you'll have to actually "think" this time.

Sorry you can't handle the truth, but he is right.

So you really think this is about "race"?? Did you actually rtfa? - non-sensical sentence structure aside, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRANT BEHAVIOR AND TRENDS, NOT RACE OR NATIONALITY.. -- trying to compartmentalize this into the easy-breezy, tired 'ole "racist!" diatribe is just plain lazy, knee-jerk, arm-chair pseudo-sociology. and a poor attempt at that.

 

[Steeplerot]

:roll: get a grip limbaugh...

I am sure you have some mexicans to boss around don't you?

 

[Vic]

Question for the posters here: what's the traditional political party of the KKK? 😉

 

[Steeplerot]

easy answer: dixiecrats, which make up the middle american republicans since the 60's civil rights with the last of them jumping ship in the 80's for reagans neocon policys.

The lefties left the white racists in the dust ages ago....good riddance.

any more questions?

You know both parties were one in the same awhile ago also? your point?

 

[Vic]

Nope, except to clarify an error of yours there. Dixiecrats are not "middle american republicans." They are Southern Republicans. And FYI, the new Right is Left.

 

[Steeplerot]

southeners have filled in middle america and brought there racist values and evangelical fascism with them...duh!

Same group different party now...same old 'murican racist BS.

Ignorance feeds off of isolation from culture. Hence the inward crawl of red states.

 

[Vic]

Only if you believe in extreme leftist propaganda. Most Republicans I know aren't racists and don't go to church. Instead, they are small business owners who don't like getting fscked by the Democrats' socialist agenda. Yaknow, the kind where if they make a mistake and hire a lazy employee who won't do their job, they can't fire 'em and still have to pay them a certain wage and benefits, but no such protections exist for the business owner, who is apparently free to starve as far as Democratic "compassion" is concerned.

LOL, that's funny, you talking about isolation.... 😛

 

[Steeplerot]

Rush sure has you whipped Vic...thanks for sharing....nothing...
"socialist agenda"...you are such a tool :roll:

I would tell you to put a cork in the freeper rhetoric but I wouldn't want you to explode from all the pent up hot air...teh evul commie libs ohh noees! turn on fauxed news!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Rush sure has you whipped Vic...thanks for sharing....nothing...

LOL, gonna cry now. You know I hate that blowhard fascist Limbaugh. Is that the best you can come up with? Go back to your little leftist hole, where absorption into the Almighty State of Benevolent Government is the same as individuality, and cry that ludricous fantasies won't conform to reality.

edit: "Tool?" The Left doesn't even hide their socialism anymore. Hell, they're proud of it that I've seen.

 

[ValuedCustomer]

Originally posted by: Vic
Question for the posters here: what's the traditional political party of the KKK? 😉

<edit my misunderstanding>
roger that, the only party on the Hill w/ a documented x-KKK member is the Dem Party.. and he's a "leading Democrat" at that. yeesh

Originally posted by: steeplrot
I am sure you have some mexicans to boss around don't you?

jesus, and YOU are the one throwing around the race-card?? FYI, senora simpleton, 1) the word "Mexicans" is capitalized (show some fkn respect) b) I am 1/2 Mexican 3) my wife was born and raised in Brazil and 4) we adopted a child of African American descent 2 years ago and we've never been happier.. take your lame-as$, lazy, myopic, learning-challanged stereotyping and shove right back up the hole you pulled it out of.