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Waiting for ...... wikileaks

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PrinceofWands said:
mmmmm I cannot imagine the beauty of such a thing. Talk about a one-shot to rainbows and unicorns.
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Yeah, in some delusional utopian imagination we might live in the Star Trek world. However, in the real world the information would be used by foreign competitors to out maneuver domestic manufacturers and the world's playing field of IP and other items would be leveled. I am sure you would rejoice in such stupidity, but again, it's naive.
 
No one has yet mentioned that the "treasonous" crime being committed is by the people leaking the information to WL. WL and its staff are under no legal obligation to anyone to maintain any government documents as classified. Thus, the leaker is the one who decided that these files should be available to the public. WL is simply the vehicle enabling them. Whether you agree with WL releasing this or not, I think it's important to recognize this.
 
LegendKiller said:
What change? Do you really think that the world will get any different? Do you really think that the US will be able to do anything but the same thing in light of the issues?

You are utterly naive.

I have a hard time thinking that any of the founding fathers would agree that diplomatic dispatches to/from France or any other country that aided us to become independent, should be allowed to be released to the public in the name of "transparency" and "change".

Get a fucking grip.
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Unless we KNOW, there is 0% chance of change. While the odds may still be slim, it's the ONLY possibility.
 
PrinceofWands said:
The patriot is exposing the idiocy of those elected to serve as our representation. The stupidity is in the acts themselves, not the revealing of them so that change can be petitioned for.
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This guy is not a patriot he is a foaming at the mouth hater of the US who thinks little of the consequences of what may happen due to the release of all this information. Again how does releasing sensitive diplomatic communications which could destroy our diplomatic efforts and cause a war to break out help the US? Explain how this can serve to help keep peace in the world when both the Iranians and North Koreans have now been given more ammunition to continue their development of nuclear weapons considering the information leaked??
 
PrinceofWands said:
Unless we KNOW, there is 0% chance of change. While the odds may still be slim, it's the ONLY possibility.
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Again, what change? What do you think will change from this? Do you think the world is safer for the US now?

WE DO NOT LIVE ON AN ISLAND. THIS IS NOT STAR TREK. WE DO NOT LIVE IN UTOPIA.

It's amazing how fucking stupid some of you guys are.
 
LegendKiller said:
Yeah, in some delusional utopian imagination we might live in the Star Trek world. However, in the real world the information would be used by foreign competitors to out maneuver domestic manufacturers and the world's playing field of IP and other items would be leveled. I am sure you would rejoice in such stupidity, but again, it's naive.
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I absolutely would, you're right. But then I'm moral, and not a greedy, sorry, self-centered, piece of shit.
 
LegendKiller said:
Again, what change? What do you think will change from this? Do you think the world is safer for the US now?

WE DO NOT LIVE ON AN ISLAND. THIS IS NOT STAR TREK. WE DO NOT LIVE IN UTOPIA.

It's amazing how fucking stupid some of you guys are.
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Mirror:LegendKiller

Enjoy being a worthless waste of human flesh. The stupidity, sir, is entirely yours.
 
Drift3r said:
This guy is not a patriot he is a foaming at the mouth hater of the US who thinks little of the consequences of what may happen due to the release of all this information. Again how does releasing sensitive diplomatic communications which could destroy our diplomatic efforts and cause a war to break out help the US? Explain how this can serve to help keep peace in the world when both the Iranians and North Koreans have now been given more ammunition to continue their development of nuclear weapons considering the information leaked??
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People act differently when their actions are public knowledge. They tend to act morally, instead of selfishly. Moreover it allows the citizens of the nations to accurately judge the actions of their representatives and demand change if they disagree with those actions.
 
PrinceofWands said:
I absolutely would, you're right. But then I'm moral, and not a greedy, sorry, self-centered, piece of shit.
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No, you're a complete fucking dolt and most likely a socialist and/or communist.

The world isn't full of nice people.

Do you think the founding fathers would agree that the release of communications to the public with our allies would have "helped" us?
 
PrinceofWands said:
The truth is the ONLY thing that EVER matters. It may hurt in the short term, but overall, it's always the best option.
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Yes, of course. I'm sure offending the EU leaders, telling Arduan he's deranged right in his face and publicly admitting Arab countries cried for US help over Iran proliferation would do US just great. I'm also sure you go around in the street and tell fat women how disgusting they are.

You have your beliefs and the hell with reality.
 
PrinceofWands said:
People act differently when their actions are public knowledge. They tend to act morally, instead of selfishly. Moreover it allows the citizens of the nations to accurately judge the actions of their representatives and demand change if they disagree with those actions.
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I am sorry I have to say this but are you fucking retarded?

How morally will North Korea behave now that they have verifiable information that we and the South Koreans have drawn up plans on what to do for when fall of their regime happens?

How morally will the Iranians behave when they now have verifiable leaked information that they have just as much to fear from their Arab neighbors as they imagined they did with Israel and the US?

Who the fuck is going to demand change in either of these 2 nations which are on the brink of expanding their nuclear capabilities? Especially when the rest of the world is trying to get them to STOP their developments of nukes in order to put a halt to nuclear proliferation around the world.
 
PrinceofWands said:
The truth is the ONLY thing that EVER matters. It may hurt in the short term, but overall, it's always the best option.
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Sometimes you can be a gigantic idiot. Sometimes there's a need for state secrets, even the founders of this country would agree with that.
 
LegendKiller said:
No, you're a complete fucking dolt and most likely a socialist and/or communist.

The world isn't full of nice people.

Do you think the founding fathers would agree that the release of communications to the public with our allies would have "helped" us?
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He probably thinks they should've given the info of our troop movements to the British as well. Truth is the ONLY thing that matters right?
 
Drift3r said:
I am sorry I have to say this but are you fucking retarded?

How morally will North Korea behave now that they have verifiable information that we and the South Koreans have drawn up plans for the fall of their regime?

How morally will the Iranians behave when they now have verifiable leaked information that they have just as much to fear from their Arab neighbors as they imagined they did with Israel and the US?

Who the fuck is going to demand change in either of these 2 nations which are on the brink of expanding their nuclear capabilities? Especially when the rest of the world is trying to get them to STOP their developments of nukes in order to put a halt to nuclear proliferation around the world.
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You missed the part where he thinks what happens in other countries does not relate to him. As if USA is living on a planet of its own; this is the true, full color embodiment of the modern self-absorbed American.
 
LegendKiller said:
And the world is improved by us knowing this? If so, how? How is it improved by our enemies and competitors knowing?
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Yes, the world is improved by us knowing this. If nothing else, I personally have a better understanding of how much of a threat Iran is considered to be by its neighbours. It actually makes me more sympathetic to the strong rhetoric thrown at that country by Western leaders.

How about the information that indicates that scads of money are tossed around by the U.S. fruitlessly? Do you think that perhaps with oversight not only could that waste be reduced, but that effectiveness could also be improved?

It's quite likely that the cause of the leaks was a 22-year-old with very little security clearance. If he can get at that data, your enemies and competitors have had it for ages.
 
JD50 said:
Sometimes you can be a gigantic idiot. Sometimes there's a need for state secrets, even the founders of this country would agree with that.
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No they didn't. Obviously they told Great Britain *exactly* what we were doing. There was no such thing as misinformation and they released all communications with France to them. Furthermore, all communication between the US an other allies were released during the War of 1812.

I like the post above. Obviously PoW is being a trollish dipshit, as I am sure he lies routinely in life, as we all do (example of fat woman).
 
LegendKiller said:
No, you're a complete fucking dolt and most likely a socialist and/or communist.

The world isn't full of nice people.

Do you think the founding fathers would agree that the release of communications to the public with our allies would have "helped" us?
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I'm neither. I'm not a big fan of isms/ists.

People fail to be nice when they can get away with it. They can get away with it when it's not known. You've heard the phrase 'an armed society is a polite society'? Knowledge/truth is the ultimate weapon.

First, the founders weren't Gods. While intelligent and brave, they're not the be-all/end-all. Second, they would likely be conflicted, like most people. They would see the good and bad inherent. Given their absolute distrust/hatred of strong centralized federal governments, I'm betting most of them would come down at least slightly on my side of the line on this one.

Yes, there is a need of some things to be confidential...troop movements, codes, frequencies, some identities, etc. That's about it though.
 
yllus said:
Yes, the world is improved by us knowing this. If nothing else, I personally have a better understanding of how much of a threat Iran is considered to be by its neighbours. It actually makes me more sympathetic to the strong rhetoric thrown at that country by Western leaders.

How about the information that indicates that scads of money are tossed around by the U.S. fruitlessly? Do you think that perhaps with oversight not only could that waste be reduced, but that effectiveness could also be improved?

It's quite likely that the cause of the leaks was a 22-year-old with very little security clearance. If he can get at that data, your enemies and competitors have had it for ages.
Click to expand...

Who the fuck cares what we know about what's going on over there? Now Iran knows that we know that everybody around him knows that they are all begging the US for him to be gone. This further destabilizes the area and harms our long-term interests.

What do you consider "waste"? I am sure the cost/benefit isn't always a "waste".

Obviously this guy reached far beyond his pay grade, exposing security flaws. He should be summarily executed.
 
PrinceofWands said:
The truth is the ONLY thing that EVER matters. It may hurt in the short term, but overall, it's always the best option.
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Any and all relationships require secrets. Secrets keep peace. Total disclosure only inflames tensions.

What would your wife/GF say if she heard EVERYTHING you ever said about her? How about your friends? What about your boss?

Without private conversations, nothing productive can be done. No advangtage can be had, or weakness hidden.

What next? Will you demand that all football huddles be recorded and given to the opposing team???

Who would have ever thought Legendkiller and I would agree?
 
LegendKiller said:
Who the fuck cares what we know about what's going on over there? Now Iran knows that we know that everybody around him knows that they are all begging the US for him to be gone. This further destabilizes the area and harms our long-term interests.

What do you consider "waste"? I am sure the cost/benefit isn't always a "waste".

Obviously this guy reached far beyond his pay grade, exposing security flaws. He should be summarily executed.
Click to expand...

do you really think that Iran doubted this stuff in the first place? are you that dense? maybe you are the stupid one
 
Drift3r said:
I am sorry I have to say this but are you fucking retarded?

How morally will North Korea behave now that they have verifiable information that we and the South Koreans have drawn up plans on what to do for when fall of their regime happens?

How morally will the Iranians behave when they now have verifiable leaked information that they have just as much to fear from their Arab neighbors as they imagined they did with Israel and the US?

Who the fuck is going to demand change in either of these 2 nations which are on the brink of expanding their nuclear capabilities? Especially when the rest of the world is trying to get them to STOP their developments of nukes in order to put a halt to nuclear proliferation around the world.
Click to expand...

We can't control what NK or Iran does, nor should we for the most part. If they choose to be immoral, that's on them. It doesn't excuse us to do the same. The MOMENT we stoop to their level we're exactly as bad as they are.

Unless we conduct ourselves BEYOND reproach we have NO PLACE to suggest to others how they should behave.
 
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