"Waiting For Superman" - Education over the last 30 years

[Bowfinger]

Perhaps you should let them speak for themselves.

They are perfectly free to do so if they choose.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

After a little searching, I'm not seeing a historical decline in U.S. test scores. They appear to be relatively steady to slightly better over the past 50 years. I thought SAT was a good metric...but maybe it isn't. Unfortunately I couldn't get the SAT chart to post here.

 

[PeshakJang]

The people who said "Reagan" were making a point about which party has had the most control while the federal government has become the poster child for incompetence. It's not a coincidence that the party that asserts government doesn't work has been able to deliver a self-fulfilling prophecy. You might understand this if your education extended beyond RNC press releases and AM radio blowhards.

So you don't think it has *anything* to do with the liberals/progressives in our society telling us for the last 50 years that it's OK to be a failure? Telling them that whenever they do poorly, it's never their fault? Nothing to do with pop culture telling kids that it's good to be a drugged up, sexed up, criminal? Nothing to do with telling people that nobody should be better than anybody else?

We've glorified all these things... it's almost shameful to be a success in school these days.

 

[Exterous]

3) Unions. The education unions today are fucking over the kids.

Huge correction for you. Teachers are the easiest targets. Everyone ignores the administrative unions and support union (janitors/bus drivers etc) even though they are increasing at an ever growing rate while teachers are always the ones with the targets on their back

 

[Exterous]

I really think it has to do with cultural influence. For a lot of cultures in America it just isn't important for kids to do well in school. Parents either don't care or are convinced that any low grades/wrong doing on their child's part can only ever be the fault of the system and never has to do with their parenting. Their kids are perfect and must always be so

Keep in mind that the school board is elected. If people 'know' their child is special and can do no wrong then they will elect people that confirm their view of the world. This then sets policy for those that are not elected. Now we get baseball where no score is kept, everyone gets a turn at bat and there are no losers. We get schools where there is no failing grade.

Because parents have been told their child is 'special' and 'important' and they should be a friend and not a parent the children tend to get a self important attitude and become undisciplined. Teachers - the ones who care anyway - are forced to spend more time managing students than teaching them. At times they can't even do that because the elected officials (or the ones that want to be elected) want to stay elected and interfere

The system itself has been corrupted by self importance and entitlement. New teachers are screwed by the system. More and more teacher positions are cut while Administrators and support staff positions are added. As teacher positions are cut the cuts go to the lowest seniority NO MATTER WHAT. You could be the best teacher in the world but if you haven't been there very long and cuts come you are out on the street.

(I don't think the teachers union should be completely disbanded under the current conditions. I have seen it defend many a teacher against frivolous claims by parents and administrators. ALL the school unions definitely need to be reigned in though)

For parents that truly care about their child's education there are plenty of opportunities and great schools for their children to attend. Unfortunately this takes work and sacrifice which are things most Americans are convinced they should not have to do in life

 

[waggy]

I'm not saying the teachers union is totally to blame or should be disbanded. But it also have a history of backing bad teachers, trying ot lower standers etc.

Administration is heavily to blame too. there are so many admins in my kids school its insane. there are only 100 kids (or so) in the school (k-8).

only good thing is the school does not do much of the new teaching styles. the kids work hard but also get recess and PE even up to 8th grade.

"For parents that truly care about their child's education there are plenty of opportunities and great schools for their children to attend. Unfortunately this takes work and sacrifice which are things most Americans are convinced they should not have to do in life "


i disagree. Sure you can move to the school area or put them in private school. but not many can afford it.

in many areas you don't have a choice on schools. EVEN if you move into a area where the school is top in the nation there is no grantee you child will even attend that school. no matter if you live across the street!

 

[Bowfinger]

So you don't think it has *anything* to do with the liberals/progressives in our society telling us for the last 50 years that it's OK to be a failure? Telling them that whenever they do poorly, it's never their fault? Nothing to do with pop culture telling kids that it's good to be a drugged up, sexed up, criminal? Nothing to do with telling people that nobody should be better than anybody else?

We've glorified all these things... it's almost shameful to be a success in school these days.

Apparently reading is hard for today's kids. For example, I said:

"So, while I agree that things like the DoE and feel-good liberal meddling hasn't helped American education, I also see wing-nut greed and generally poor moral principles and the religious right's attack on science as equally culpable. In short, America as a whole has screwed itself on education."
​

But feel free to join Patranus in his simple-minded, black and white partisan world.

 

[Bowfinger]

Huge correction for you. Teachers are the easiest targets. Everyone ignores the administrative unions and support union (janitors/bus drivers etc) even though they are increasing at an ever growing rate while teachers are always the ones with the targets on their back

Agreed. In my experience, students' education is low on many administrator's priority list.

 

[HumblePie]

Cookie for you bowfinger.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well I don't know what OP thinks or says happened 30 years ago . But is what happened about 30 years ago was the realization the knowledge and truth set you free. The HRCC tried to suppress knowledge for over a 1000 years. and it worked . The Us government seen that truth and gave over power to liberials in the education system basicly dumbing those generations down . But it did start with JFK death. That ass wipe lindy bady who was bought and paid for by Bell . The government wanted sheep and thats what they created. The government being the judas goat.

 

[Elias824]

Schools have shifted focus from teaching math science and important subjects and become more about building self esteem, confidence, and trying to produce emotionally stable children. This is why they do things like not grade in red ink, or make everyone a winner. Now instead of having kids who are actually intelligent we have a bunch of kids that are over confident about having accomplished nothing.

 

[CPA]

Political Correctness

 

[Elias824]

After a little searching, I'm not seeing a historical decline in U.S. test scores. They appear to be relatively steady to slightly better over the past 50 years. I thought SAT was a good metric...but maybe it isn't. Unfortunately I couldn't get the SAT chart to post here.

Maybe its more that everyone else is doing better, rather then we are doing worse.

 

[Jaskalas]

The inability to educate is a mere reflection of societal decline, of which the reasons are many.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The inability to educate is a mere reflection of societal decline, of which the reasons are many.

nm

 

[woolfe9999]

After a little searching, I'm not seeing a historical decline in U.S. test scores. They appear to be relatively steady to slightly better over the past 50 years. I thought SAT was a good metric...but maybe it isn't. Unfortunately I couldn't get the SAT chart to post here.

I can't find a decline either. I am also not certain about these international comparisons of test scores in terms of whether they are truly apples to apples,a nd whether we have gone down or they have gone up. And I notice the comparisons always mention math and science and never how we're doing in other areas. Back in the 1970's the cause celebre was supposedly literacy, now the decline is supposedly math and science. Ultimately, evidence for the "decline" seems primarily based on anecdotal accounts of bad schools, typically in certain inner cities (DC being a frequent culprit these days.) Dial back to the 1970's, and there was a "decline" going on back then as well, the evidence being certain bad inner city schools. It's been all over the media for at least 4 decades. The Blackboard Jungle. Movies, TV shows, documentaries, about bad inner city schools.

Liberals are vested in this because they want more funding for public schools, and conservatives are vested in this because they want to prove the failure of the public school system.

Frankly, I'd like to see it established that we really are in the midst of a general national decline in overall education before I start positing reasons for it.

- wolf

 

[Exterous]

"For parents that truly care about their child's education there are plenty of opportunities and great schools for their children to attend. Unfortunately this takes work and sacrifice which are things most Americans are convinced they should not have to do in life "


i disagree. Sure you can move to the school area or put them in private school. but not many can afford it.

in many areas you don't have a choice on schools. EVEN if you move into a area where the school is top in the nation there is no grantee you child will even attend that school. no matter if you live across the street!

I would argue that a lot of the people that can't afford to move to a better school district are that way because they overspent on material possessions (car, house, etc). That long economic debate aside there is still the Federal School of choice program:

If a child attends a Title I school that has been identified by the state for school improvement, corrective action, or restructuring, parents can choose to send the child to another public school that is not so identified. Districts must let parents know each year if their child is eligible to transfer to another school, and districts must give parents more than one transfer option if more than one exists. Districts must pay for students' transportation costs, giving priority to low-income, low-achieving students if there are not enough funds available to pay for all students.
In addition, the Voluntary Public School Choice Program supports efforts to establish or expand intradistrict, interdistrict, and open enrollment public school choice programs to provide parents, particularly parents whose children attend low-performing public schools, with expanded education options.