"Waiting For Superman" - Education over the last 30 years

[Patranus]

Documentary of the current educational system.
http://www.waitingforsuperman.com/
So true....

The US now ranks #25 in math and science. It was ~#1 ~30 years ago. What changed ~30 years ago?

(A cookie for the correct answer)

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Reagan.

 

[irishScott]

Illegal immigration?

lol jk, although it may have some influence. No racism intended, but let's just say I didn't/don't see many ethnic Hispanics in public school AP classes or my current math/science oriented college courses.

 

[MikeMike]

Reagan.

I think he wants "segregation ended"

its Racistanus...

 

[sandorski]

Reagan.

This. :snicker:

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

No, I know what he's looking for, and Reagan was in charge of it nearly all of its first 8 years of operation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Education

 

[quikah]

I think he wants "segregation ended"

its Racistanus...

Segregation ended in 1980?

 

[MikeMike]

No, I know what he's looking for, and Reagan was in charge of it nearly all of its first 8 years of operation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Education

except it was signed into law by Carter...

that's like saying "Obama is responsible for TARP"

 

[Throckmorton]

Gangster culture happened

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

except it was signed into law by Carter...

that's like saying "Obama is responsible for TARP"

Obama is responsible for the management and unspent portions post Bush.

But that doesn't change the fact that Reagan actively wanted to kill the Department of Education, and its first 12 years of existence was run by Republicans pretty much in it's entirety.

In fact, 20 of the past 30 years of it's existence it has been run by the R's.

 

[spacejamz]

Did this start about the same time corporal punishment was stopped in schools???

 

[charrison]

Obama is responsible for the management and unspent portions post Bush.

But that doesn't change the fact that Reagan actively wanted to kill the Department of Education, and its first 12 years of existence was run by Republicans pretty much in it's entirety.

In fact, 20 of the past 30 years of it's existence it has been run by the R's.

Given that local govt provides most of the funding for education. I am not sure how the fed had much to do with educations failings. Unless of course you consider that fed has been creeping into local education for the past 30 years....

 

[BoberFett]

Given that local govt provides most of the funding for education. I am not sure how the fed had much to do with educations failings. Unless of course you consider that fed has been creeping into local education for the past 30 years....

The federal government touching anything seems bound for failure, why should education be any different?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The federal government touching anything seems bound for failure, why should education be any different?

"But...bu....bu...if only we elected Progressives!"

Oops, I stole Craig's thunder.

 

[Double Trouble]

There's probably many reasons that factor into the decline, but I think the fact that our focus seems to have shifted from teaching science and logic to more of the touchy-feely politically correct crap, sociology, and that kind of stuff. I'm sure the NEA is part of the problem, less parental involvement with two working parents in most families etc, more than just one or two things.

 

[cubby1223]

No, I know what he's looking for, and Reagan was in charge of it nearly all of its first 8 years of operation.

its first 12 years of existence was run by Republicans pretty much in it's entirety.

In fact, 20 of the past 30 years of it's existence it has been run by the R's.

So? Why does this topic need to be Republicans versus Democrats? Why can we not argue federal government involvement versus no federal government involvement?

Like, just because I don't trust Democrats with certain tasks, does not mean I trust Republicans with those tasks either.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

So? Why does this topic need to be Republicans versus Democrats?

Because it's a Patranus thread.

 

[waggy]

I think a there is no single issue. but will list what i feel has done it

1) government trying to control and meddle with education.

2) "alternative" forms of education. in the 70-80s schools were trying other things. I went to one school from 3-5th grade where the core subjects were not a focus. having hippies as parents sucked heh

3) Unions. The teachers union today is fucking over the kids.

4) schools trying to make EVERYONE a "winner". I have heard of schools dropping AP class's because it hurts the feelings of idiots that can't get in.

5) people just feel education is not as important anymore. this is more of a society issue. i feel not having a parent home hurts the children. Today kids don't have someone trying to get them to do whats right. Parents are to busy with work that they don't have the energy to help tommy with his homework.

 

[PeshakJang]

I think a there is no single issue. but will list what i feel has done it

1) government trying to control and meddle with education.

2) "alternative" forms of education. in the 70-80s schools were trying other things. I went to one school from 3-5th grade where the core subjects were not a focus. having hippies as parents sucked heh

3) Unions. The teachers union today is fucking over the kids.

4) schools trying to make EVERYONE a "winner". I have heard of schools dropping AP class's because it hurts the feelings of idiots that can't get in.

5) people just feel education is not as important anymore. this is more of a society issue. i feel not having a parent home hurts the children. Today kids don't have someone trying to get them to do whats right. Parents are to busy with work that they don't have the energy to help tommy with his homework.

This.

The idiots who said "Reagan" are no doubt a product of these poor educations.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Outcome-based education?

I believe this method was introduced and championed by progressives.

 

[Bowfinger]

This.

The idiots who said "Reagan" are no doubt a product of these poor educations.

The people who said "Reagan" were making a point about which party has had the most control while the federal government has become the poster child for incompetence. It's not a coincidence that the party that asserts government doesn't work has been able to deliver a self-fulfilling prophecy. You might understand this if your education extended beyond RNC press releases and AM radio blowhards.

 

[Linflas]

Obama is responsible for the management and unspent portions post Bush.

But that doesn't change the fact that Reagan actively wanted to kill the Department of Education, and its first 12 years of existence was run by Republicans pretty much in it's entirety.

In fact, 20 of the past 30 years of it's existence it has been run by the R's.

So how do you explain all the people that received better education in the 1930's, 40's, 50's, and 60's before test scores and abilities started declining and there was no federal Department of Education?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The people who said "Reagan" were making a point about which party has had the most control while the federal government has become the poster child for incompetence. It's not a coincidence that the party that asserts government doesn't work has been able to deliver a self-fulfilling prophecy. You might understand this if your education extended beyond RNC press releases and AM radio blowhards.

Perhaps you should let them speak for themselves.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

So how do you explain all the people that received better education in the 1930's, 40's, 50's, and 60's before test scores and abilities started declining and there was no federal Department of Education?

Because Republicans weren't using the ED to screw up public education?

 

[Bowfinger]

[ ... ]
The US now ranks #25 in math and science. It was ~#1 ~30 years ago. What changed ~30 years ago?

(A cookie for the correct answer)

THE correct answer? Seriously? It must be truly blissful to live in such a simple-minded, black and white world where everything can be explained by a few easy propaganda points.

The fact is there are a myriad of factors leading to our failing educational performance. Some are no doubt related to the DoE, teacher unions, liberals, and all the usual wing-nut scapegoats. It seems this conveniently shifts blame from the personal accountability of parents, however, who have increasingly abdicated their responsibility to raise and educate their children. Instead they view schools as a baby-sitting service where they can dump their little darlings and get on with the "important" things in their life. This is only aggravated by the increasing deterioration of traditional, two-parent families and the continuing increase in working mothers with latch-key children.

But there are many more cultural and social changes we've experienced over the last 40 years. Compared to the students of the 70's, today's kids have grown up immersed in a world of cable television and video games. The 70's students grew up during the space race, where NASA and Apollo were front-page news firing the imagination of a generation and there was a societal emphasis on math and science. Today's students have a boring space truck, and science is vigorously denounced (by a small but quite loud minority) for teaching evolution and global warming. "Intellectual" has become a pejorative. The American ethic has increasingly moved to unmitigated consumerism and greed. Kids are taught it's all about getting as much money as possible, through any means necessary, dumping traditional American values in favor of an "I want it and I want it now" mentality.

So, while I agree that things like the DoE and feel-good liberal meddling hasn't helped American education, I also see wing-nut greed and generally poor moral principles and the religious right's attack on science as equally culpable. In short, America as a whole has screwed itself on education.

I'll take my cookie now.