Wachovia can bite me

[DT4K]

OK. I'm fully aware that I'll get a bunch of the standard responses about how it's all my fault, blah, blah blah.
So first, let me explain that I'm not bitching about the fact that I got dinged for spending more than I had. Yeah, I screwed up and forgot about something I spent on my debit card and I cut it too close. I just assumed that by noon on Monday, anything I had put on the debit card over the weekend would be reflected on my available balance.

So I make 5 small transactions on saturday and sunday. I've got enough money to cover them all.
On Monday, I check my balance first, it looks ok, so I then use my debit card for 2 transactions.
Today I look online and I'm nailed with $175 in overdraft fees.
They don't process on the weekend, so come monday evening,
they first deduct the amount of the 2 larger transactions(from Monday) from my available balance.
Then they deduct the amounts of the 5 smaller transactions(all from Sunday). Each one results in an overdraft fee.
So the two transactions I made on Monday caused the 5 transactions I made on the weekend to all be overdrawn.
But the real kicker is that the 2 large transactions are still "processing", so when they actually "post", I'll get hit with 2 more overdraft fees.

So again, I'm not complaining about getting charged a fee for spending more than I have.
I'm complaining about getting charged 7 fees for a total of $245 when the reality is that I only made one(possibly 2) transaction when I didn't enough money.

 

[trmiv]

This is a well known tactic that Wachovia uses to maximize overdraft fees. It doesn't matter the order you do the transactions in, the bigger ones will process first to put you negative, and then it will keep hitting you. They were sued over this at one point.

 

[Brainonska511]

You shouldn't rely on the balance listed online. You should keep track of how much you actually have in a checkbook register (or something) for when transaction aren't processed instantly.

 

[Proprioceptive]

Just call them and explain the situation and you will most likely have it reduced to only two overdraft fees.

 

[Azraele]

So again, I'm not complaining about getting charged a fee for spending more than I have.
I'm complaining about getting charged 7 fees for a total of $245 when the reality is that I only made one(possibly 2) transaction when I didn't enough money.

Have you tried calling them?

 

[SunnyD]

Remove overdraft from your account. Then you won't be spending money you don't have.

 

[swanysto]

This is the exact reason I moved from Wachovia to Bank of America. However, I make a lot more money now that I am out of college, so I never have that problem anymore. But for those who do have the live near the financial equator, I suggest Bank of America or Chase.

 

[kami333]

Pretty common tactic, along with processing debits before deposits.

At least now it's easier to cancel overdraft protection, BoA gave me the run around when I tried to a few years ago.

 

[DT4K]

Yeah, I called them.
They credited back 50% of the $175 but said I'd get two more overdrafts when the 2 larger transactions finish "processing" and actually post. That's the part that pisses me off the most.
When those 2 transactions went on hold, they reduced the balance to cause the other 5 to cause overdrafts, but since they didn't actually post first, when they do post, it will cause 2 more overdrafts.

So it's like they are saying "we sort of took the first 2 transactions out of your account, enough to cause the others to be overdrawn, but we didn't really take them out of your account, so when they post, we can nail you again."

So in essence, even though I had enough money for 5 of the 7 transactions, they are charging me an overdraft for every single one. That seems seriously fucked up.

 

[dullard]

1) Yes, this is a common tactic. First, it maximizes the fees they collect, but more importantly it saves you from being arrested for non-payment. Generally small non-payments can result in a legal fine, but large non-payments can result in a fine and arrest. In that light, you could argue that you are far better off paying many bank fees on the small items than being arrested for the large items. This varies by location, of course, since laws vary by location.

2) Recent law changes are forcing banks to let you opt out of debit card fees. You'll never pay an overbalance fee again. The tradeoff, though, is that you'll be rejected when you try to buy something and that can be embarassing. If you are living banking life on the edge, this may be the best option for you. Although having $500 in emergency funds would solve it as well.

3) Credit cards solve all this (by giving you a credit line far above what you should ever spend, so you never go over balance) and give you rewards.

4) Actually go into the bank and talk to a banker (not a teller, a banker). They can do far more than what you can get done over the phone. You probably can talk the banker into just the last 2 overdrafts. Deposit cash today, to show them that you want to cover your bills, and threaten to take your buisness elsewhere. The banker will probably be quite pleased to reduce your fees even further.

 

[lupi]

Hey look, someone else getting screwed by not using a credit card.

 

[nick1985]

Pay your bills

 

[Phoenix86]

Hey look, someone else getting screwed by not using a credit card.

Really? I mean I completely understand how a CC would have avoided this but are you saying they don't screw CC owners too? Come on now, just search the forums for and you'll find a ton of threads on lowered limit (to unusable amounts), increased interest rate (even though it's paid on time), canceled card, or some on other shenanigans.

Financial institutes are really gouging the customers before the new credit laws kick in.

The bottom line is if you are responsible with a CC or debit card, you won't have to deal with too much of this shit either way.

 

[Theb]

Switch to a credit union. It's not a solution, but it will save you money. My fees are 30 - 40% less across the board than they were at Chase.

Edit: I would not use a credit card for anything if you're having any trouble managing your finances.

 

[DT4K]

1) Yes, this is a common tactic. First, it maximizes the fees they collect, but more importantly it saves you from being arrested for non-payment. Generally small non-payments can result in a legal fine, but large non-payments can result in a fine and arrest. In that light, you could argue that you are far better off paying many bank fees on the small items than being arrested for the large items. This varies by location, of course, since laws vary by location.

2) Recent law changes are forcing banks to let you opt out of debit card fees. You'll never pay an overbalance fee again. The tradeoff, though, is that you'll be rejected when you try to buy something and that can be embarassing. If you are living banking life on the edge, this may be the best option for you. Although having $500 in emergency funds would solve it as well.

3) Credit cards solve all this (by giving you a credit line far above what you should ever spend, so you never go over balance) and give you rewards.

4) Actually go into the bank and talk to a banker (not a teller, a banker). They can do far more than what you can get done over the phone. You probably can talk the banker into just the last 2 overdrafts. Deposit cash today, to show them that you want to cover your bills, and threaten to take your buisness elsewhere. The banker will probably be quite pleased to reduce your fees even further.

You don't honestly believe that the bank is doing this (even partially) to protect people from arrest, do you? That's ridiculous. Even if they did give a crap, that doesn't apply when they pay all the merchants anyway. The first part about maximizing fees is absolutely true and I know it's common practice. It's still scummy, especially when the purchases weren't even on the same day.

But like I said, the part that gets me the most is that they played the trick of putting holds on for the first 2 transactions, so it would reduce the balance, causing the other 5 to be overdrawn, then they can still "post" the first 2 and get 2 more fees.

If they are going to process the largest transactions first, then do it that way, which would result in 5 overdraft fees. If they are going to be ethical, then process the transactions in the order they were made, which would result in 1 or 2 overdraft fees.

In my case, they are going to hit me with 7 overdrafts when I had enough money to cover 5 or 6 of the transactions. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[reallyscrued]

Really? I mean I completely understand how a CC would have avoided this but are you saying they don't screw CC owners too?.

It's much easier to be responsible with a credit card than a debit card that allows for overdrafts. Sometimes you may not know or remember in the heat of the moment that the last ten charges you made on your debit card might be rearranged to result in overdrafts.

All you gotta do with a credit card is pay it off every month, it's basically as good as a 30 day loan.

 

[DT4K]

I don't use credit cards anymore because it's too easy for me to spend what I don't have.

It's not like I'm overdrawing my account all the time or anything. But things have been tight lately for a number of reasons and this time, I made a mistake and forgot about one charge we had made. In the past, I've always seen weekend debits show up on my account on Monday, if not posted, they were at least processing and already reflected in my available balance.

Obviously this could have been avoided by not cutting it so close and leaving some room for error, but that's not really the point.

The point is that I don't understand how they can justify 7 overdraft charges for 7 transactions when I had enough money in the account for the first 6 of those transactions. Even with the practice of timing everything for maximum customer screwing, there is no way I should see more than 5 fees.

 

[dullard]

The point is that I don't understand how they can justify 7 overdraft charges for 7 transactions when I had enough money in the account for the first 6 of those transactions. Even with the practice of timing everything for maximum customer screwing, there is no way I should see more than 5 fees.

I answered that, but you brushed the real answer aside.

It is against the law to do what you did (to buy something when you can't pay for it with the method you used to pay). Be glad that the bank is only charging you fees.

There are now three options for you to follow. (A) Don't pay the business and you get arrested and/or fined. (B) Pay the bank overdraft fees as the bank sees fit. (C) Have the bank decline your purchases when you run out of money. Choose one.

 

[reallyscrued]

I don't use credit cards anymore because it's too easy for me to spend what I don't have.

It's not like I'm overdrawing my account all the time or anything.

That's exactly the point man. You don't have to overdraw all the time, but a one time fee of 25 dollars, 50 dollars, 150 dollars....

Even with a floating balance on a credit card, you wont spend that much in interest over the course of a year. (Well, maybe you can, if you have ridiculous amounts of floating credit and just keep paying the minimum balance.)

Your issue with it seems to be this: It's easy for you to spend what you "don't have", right? Well don't treat your credit card like revolving credit, treat it like a debit card and only make purchases you know you can pay off. That way, even if there's an oversight to how much money you spent, you'll just be denied funds instead of hit with fees. I firmly believe that properly used, you will get into less trouble with using a credit card than debit card.

 

[DT4K]

It's much easier to be responsible with a credit card than a debit card that allows for overdrafts. Sometimes you may not know or remember in the heat of the moment that the last ten charges you made on your debit card might be rearranged to result in overdrafts.

All you gotta do with a credit card is pay it off every month, it's basically as good as a 30 day loan.

If you have plenty of excess income above and beyond your basic monthly bills, then it's easy to be responsible with a debit card or a credit card.

If you have just enough income to get by, then just paying it off every month is not as easy as you make it sound. You still have to pay very close attention to what you are spending to avoid spending more than you can afford to pay off when the bill comes. And with a credit card, there is no immediate penalty for spending too much, so it's far more tempting to say "ok, I can spend a little more than I can afford and I'll just pay off the excess next month". Do this for a couple months and you get further and further behind. At least with a debit card, once you go over once, you are done and there is enough of an immediate penalty to make people more careful about spending too much.

 

[reallyscrued]

If you have plenty of excess income above and beyond your basic monthly bills, then it's easy to be responsible with a debit card or a credit card.

If you have just enough income to get by, then just paying it off every month is not as easy as you make it sound. You still have to pay very close attention to what you are spending to avoid spending more than you can afford to pay off when the bill comes. And with a credit card, there is no immediate penalty for spending too much, so it's far more tempting to say "ok, I can spend a little more than I can afford and I'll just pay off the excess next month". Do this for a couple months and you get further and further behind. At least with a debit card, once you go over once, you are done and there is enough of an immediate penalty to make people more careful about spending too much.

What the hell. Ok, with that kind of attitude, you can say "gee, it's so temping to just pay my bills by the skin of my teeth and hope I don't get hit with overdrafts."

Sounds like you are just set in your ways and don't want to change your views on handling money. No problem with that. Enjoy your overdrafts.

 

[Blackjack200]

You shouldn't rely on the balance listed online. You should keep track of how much you actually have in a checkbook register (or something) for when transaction aren't processed instantly.

Oh please. I have been using debit cards (and watching other people use debit cards as I wait on line) for years, and not once have I seen someone use a debit card and immediately whip out their trusty register to record the transaction. Debit cards are marketed for convenience. Keeping a register would destroy the very purpose of debit cards in the first place.

I answered that, but you brushed the real answer aside.

It is against the law to do what you did (to buy something when you can't pay for it with the method you used to pay). Be glad that the bank is only charging you fees.

Is it? It's against the law to make a fraudulent payment, but I don't know that it's illegal to make a payment in good faith and later discover that you did not have adequate funds. Is bouncing a check (again, in good faith) also illegal then?

What the hell. Ok, with that kind of attitude, you can say "gee, it's so temping to just pay my bills by the skin of my teeth and hope I don't get hit with overdrafts."

Sounds like you are just set in your ways and don't want to change your views on handling money. No problem with that. Enjoy your overdrafts.

WTF is your problem? He's saying that he doesn't want to use a CC because he'll end up in debt. That's a mature attitude. Having barely enough money to scrape by for the month has nothing to do with having a credit card or not.

 

[DT4K]

I answered that, but you brushed the real answer aside.

It is against the law to do what you did (to buy something when you can't pay for it with the method you used to pay). Be glad that the bank is only charging you fees.

There are now three options for you to follow. (A) Don't pay the business and you get arrested and/or fined. (B) Pay the bank overdraft fees as the bank sees fit. (C) Have the bank decline your purchases when you run out of money. Choose one.

No, you didn't answer that.
You explained why they can charge me for 5 overdrafts when I had enough in my account to cover 6 of the 7 transactions. You did NOT explain why they can charge me for 7 overdrafts.

Maybe it's not clear, so here's an example which is basically what happened to me:
Say you have a $100 balance
On Sunday, you make debit transactions for:
$12
$10
$20
$15
$9
On Monday, you make debit transactions for:
$30
$65

Like I said, I understand how the bank is going to process all of these on Monday and take the $65 first, then the $35, then hit you with 5 overdraft fees for the next 5 transactions.

But please explain to me how you can justify charging 7 overdraft fees in this situation.

And as I pointed out before, option A is not applicable because the bank has already paid the businesses.

 

[Brainonska511]

Oh please. I have been using debit cards (and watching other people use debit cards as I wait on line) for years, and not once have I seen someone use a debit card and immediately whip out their trusty register to record the transaction. Debit cards are marketed for convenience. Keeping a register would destroy the very purpose of debit cards in the first place.

He didn't have to whip it out every time. Just tally it at the end of the day.

 

[Blackjack200]

Also, to the OP, I watch my checking account closely and have seen debit card transactions post up to a week after the transaction date. It's really irritating, I'm like you and don't have the time or inclination to record every transaction and balance them against my statements.