VW recalls 482,000 diesel cars due to a system to trick emissions faces 18bil fine

[disappoint]

What an individual does with his property is his choice. The law may do to him is his problem. What VW did is not the same at all.

Oh I agree. It is his choice to let us know he agrees with VWs decision to pollute more for efficiency and/or performance.

 

[disappoint]

CEO might get north of $60 million after running the company into the ground:

What the pleb are you talking about? Running the company into the ground? Don't you know how much money his little scheme made VW in all those years they were able to advertise efficient performance and clean diesel? Probably north of $60 million. Maybe well north of it.

Why did you think they compensated failed CEOs? You didn't know it was to reward their unscrupulous behavior?

 

[tortillasoup]

What the pleb are you talking about? Running the company into the ground? Don't you know how much money his little scheme made VW in all those years they were able to advertise efficient performance and clean diesel? Probably north of $60 million. Maybe well north of it.

Why did you think they compensated failed CEOs? You didn't know it was to reward their unscrupulous behavior?

Not sure if sarcasm but with the joke about the $60 million in profit vs $8 bn in losses I have to imagine...

 

[disappoint]

Not sure if sarcasm but with the joke about the $60 million in profit vs $8 bn in losses I have to imagine...

The CEO doesn't incur $8 bn in losses. In fact he doesn't incur any losses nor criminal charges at all. At least, not yet. This is about incentive pure and simple. He has no incentive to be anything but unethical. Let's see now about that imagination and how far it can foresee what is going on, what will go on and what should.

 

[Imp]

What the pleb are you talking about? Running the company into the ground? Don't you know how much money his little scheme made VW in all those years they were able to advertise efficient performance and clean diesel? Probably north of $60 million. Maybe well north of it.

Why did you think they compensated failed CEOs? You didn't know it was to reward their unscrupulous behavior?

I was clearly wrong... He made the his fellow executives a ton of money and was rewarded accordingly. How the company does from now onward, who cares?

 

[Brian Stirling]

I have to wonder how many people driving cars/trucks with tuner chips are doing with respect to cheating the emissions testing. How can those new diesel pickups belching clouds of black smoke be able to pass emissions unless they can switch to "clean" mode for testing either automatically like VW or by operator intervention.

It would not surprise me to learn that VW learned this gimmick from the tuner community.

If tuners are cheating the emissions laws how do we test that and what do we do to the people that are cheating?


Brian

 

[Jumpem]

I have to wonder how many people driving cars/trucks with tuner chips are doing with respect to cheating the emissions testing. How can those new diesel pickups belching clouds of black smoke be able to pass emissions unless they can switch to "clean" mode for testing either automatically like VW or by operator intervention.

It would not surprise me to learn that VW learned this gimmick from the tuner community.

If tuners are cheating the emissions laws how do we test that and what do we do to the people that are cheating?


Brian

Make it illegal to modify or piggyback an ECU.

 

[TheGardener]

Pity the people who own VW and Audi diesel cars. What happens to them when the cheating program is turned off, and the cars don't pass the emissions tests? They shouldn't look to the EPA or states for sympathy. It could be years before they are compensated for the loss of their cars. Cash for Clunkers II?

 

[OverVolt]

Pity the people who own VW and Audi diesel cars. What happens to them when the cheating program is turned off, and the cars don't pass the emissions tests? They shouldn't look to the EPA or states for sympathy. It could be years before they are compensated for the loss of their cars. Cash for Clunkers II?

Thats not how it worked. Enriching the exhaust with a bit of fuel DECREASES emissions at the cost of MPG.

In a way, they were cheating both the MPG and emissions tests. Because wasting some fuel for emissions reasons will lower the MPG. Apparently the pressure was very high on VW Diesels to put up impressive MPG numbers.

When it was in a testing environment it enriched the exhaust which decreases some exhaust pollutant NOx or something.

 

[tynopik]

Pity the people who own VW and Audi diesel cars. What happens to them when the cheating program is turned off, and the cars don't pass the emissions tests?

why would you turn the cheating off?

 

[1prophet]

Elon Musk: Dieselgate Proves It's Time to Go Electric

While the EPA is promising to toughen up emissions tests in the aftermath of the Volkswagen cheating scandal, Tesla founder Elon Musk has a slightly different take: Gas is dead and it’s time to go electric, people.


While speaking to a room full of reporters yesterday, Musk was asked whether dieselgate would cause people to lose faith in green technologies.

“Well, I think it’s more the opposite,” Musk replied. “What Volkswagen is really showing is that we’ve reached the limit of what’s possible with diesel and gasoline. The time has come to move to a new generation of technology.”


Of course, that new technology Musk is referring to here is electric cars. But despite his obvious bias on the matter, the man may be onto something. Nearly every major carmaker is now clamoring to get in on the burgeoning EV market. Apple recently announced its intentions to field an electric car in 2019. Even the disgraced VW might be able to save itself with a definitive pivot toward gas-free automobiles.


Or, you know, Musk has a car or two lying around. Skip to 1:12 in the video below to hear his remarks.

 

[Imp]

why would you turn the cheating off?

I'm going to be honest... if I had a VW, I'd leave it alone and forget this happened. I'll worry about it next time I have to test the emissions.

 

[zerocool84]

Make it illegal to modify or piggyback an ECU.

I have to wonder how many people driving cars/trucks with tuner chips are doing with respect to cheating the emissions testing. How can those new diesel pickups belching clouds of black smoke be able to pass emissions unless they can switch to "clean" mode for testing either automatically like VW or by operator intervention.

It would not surprise me to learn that VW learned this gimmick from the tuner community.

If tuners are cheating the emissions laws how do we test that and what do we do to the people that are cheating?


Brian

Umm this is pretty much illegal in many states already.

 

[NetWareHead]

I'm going to be honest... if I had a VW, I'd leave it alone and forget this happened. I'll worry about it next time I have to test the emissions.

Pretty much my plan too. I've already located a few tuner shops around me and started research on options to modify engine management software. However I choose to modify my car will be towards maintaining good mpg/performance as the primary goal and hopefully be able to keep it clean as well. If I have to temporarily run in a super clean but diminished mpg/performance mode for sake of an emissions test, I'm sure that can be worked out too. It's not my intention to be a polluter but I can't easily get rid of this car and buy a new one now nor am I going to lose money running a diesel car with no mpg or performance benefit and forced to live with crippling EPA mandated regs. You can all blame VW for this...

If anyone has a tuner chip or ecu management software they would like to share, please post or PM. Thanks...

 

[natto fire]

Elon Musk: Dieselgate Proves It's Time to Go Electric

This is all the rage over at Tesla Motor Club, but I am a bit skeptical as to whether this will change EV adoption. Liquid fuel has advantages over electrons, for the end user. Electrons hold an advantage for the supplier, in lower transportation costs, and more diverse generation methods.

Once batteries 'catch up', it is this natural advantage that will help boost EV sales, as the 'refueling' process becomes more streamlined. It will take a long time, but I would not be surprised if gasoline is a niche product by the end of my life (I'm 32).

That said, Tesla makes, IMO, the best BEV. It is very practical, albeit expensive.

 

[Jimzz]

VW stock to be removed from Dow Jones Sustainability Indexes
http://www.autonews.com/article/201...removed-from-dow-jones-sustainability-indexes

Well that's not going to help the price.

 

[Kaido]

This is all the rage over at Tesla Motor Club, but I am a bit skeptical as to whether this will change EV adoption. Liquid fuel has advantages over electrons, for the end user. Electrons hold an advantage for the supplier, in lower transportation costs, and more diverse generation methods.

Once batteries 'catch up', it is this natural advantage that will help boost EV sales, as the 'refueling' process becomes more streamlined. It will take a long time, but I would not be surprised if gasoline is a niche product by the end of my life (I'm 32).

That said, Tesla makes, IMO, the best BEV. It is very practical, albeit expensive.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure no one is going to jump from a Jetta to a Tesla, you know? And they're not going to jump to a Leaf or Spark either...82-mile EV range vs. the 700+ mile range on their Passat TDI. So pretty much, zero impact I'd imagine. I have a lot of buddies with VW's who are diehard to the brand & none of them really care about the emissions things. They like their cars, period, and this hasn't changed their views much, in general.

 

[Homerboy]

I'm really just amazed at this whole damn course of events. And now I read the CEO is leaving with $65M+? LOL... God bless big corporations.

 

[PottedMeat]

is there a NOx market? maybe VW could buy 25+ years worth x average running time and it's all good :awe:

 

[TheGardener]

The term diehard VW owners is going to take on a new meaning. For those VW diesel owners who think that this is just about the EPA going after the corporate entity... think again. The EPA has announced a plan for getting your diesel vehicle off the road.

The Environmental Protection Agency said Friday that it will launch sweeping changes to the way it tests for diesel emissions after getting duped by clandestine software in Volkswagen cars for seven years.

http://phys.org/news/2015-09-epa-diesel-thwart-vw-like.html

In a letter to car manufacturers, the EPA said it will add on-road testing to its regimen, "using driving cycles and conditions that may reasonably be expected to be encountered in normal operation and use, for the purposes of investigating a potential defeat device" similar to the one used by Volkswagen.

So there will be a rigorous emissions test for your vehicle to thwart the clandestine software. In my state, when your vehicle doesn't pass the test, you get a rejection sticker.

1. I failed. Now what?
   First of all, DON'T PANIC! It's not the end of the world! It is important to note that the purpose of our inspection program is to ensure public safety, which includes YOU. With nearly 5,000,000 registered vehicles in Massachusetts, common sense dictates that roadway safety requires safely operating vehicles. We hope we can count on your cooperation, and want you to know that we are here to help if you need it. We're just a phone call away. There are two categories of inspection failures: If the problem is a safety related issue (brakes, horn, tires, etc.) You must have the problem fixed immediately. You are not allowed to drive the vehicle or motorcycle until the safety issue(s) are resolved. Click the link if your vehicle fails and the problem is emissions related. If you failed for an emissions related problem, the inspector is required to provide you with an Emissions Failure Brochure. These brochures are available free of charge at all Official Massachusetts Inspection Stations.

http://www.massrmv.com/rmv/faq/inspection.htm#29

Emissions. A vehicle that fails its emissions test must be repaired and pass a re-test within 60 days of its initial inspection. Give the Vehicle Inspection Report (VIR) you received from the inspector to your repair technician, who can use the information it provides to diagnose your vehicle’s emissions control problem(s). Need a copy of your Vehicle Inspection Report? Get a reprint here. If the inspector also gave you an Emissions Repair Form, be sure to have the repairer complete it and then return the form to the inspector when you take your vehicle back for its re-test. Check with your repairer to see if he or she has filled this form out on-line for you. If so, you will not need to return the form to the inspector.

http://massvehiclecheck.state.ma.us/motorist_whatiffail.html

So you get 60 days to get it repaired and retested. Only you can't unless you swap out your engine for one that will pass inspection. And where do you get one of those? Your vehicle has no resale value. You have to replace it. Where do you turn? Right now, there ain't no hope. Again, maybe they'll be a Cash For Clunkers II. Stay tuned.

Oh, and if other manufacturers have done something similar, maybe more brands will fail the new test. I guess this will be one way to eliminate congestion during the morning and afternoon rush hour commutes.

 

[momeNt]

This is a prime example of why the EPA needs to get defunded immediately. 7 years of being completely fucking clueless? Congratulations, now you get to expand your agency! So nothing like this ever happens again.

 

[repoman0]

The term diehard VW owners is going to take on a new meaning. For those VW diesel owners who think that this is just about the EPA going after the corporate entity... think again. The EPA has announced a plan for getting your diesel vehicle off the road.

So there will be a rigorous emissions test for your vehicle to thwart the clandestine software. In my state, when your vehicle doesn't pass the test, you get a rejection sticker.

This has nothing to do with emissions testing of vehicles already sold and on the road. State inspection is entirely different from EPA emissions inspection, which only determines whether the car model is approved for sale in the US.

Unless the state of Massachusetts specifically tests affected diesel VWs for failing software versions or whether the pending emissions recall is done, they will still pass as they always have ... (again, the EPA doesn't control Massachusetts inspection or emissions testing)

 

[Jimzz]

This is a prime example of why the EPA needs to get defunded immediately. 7 years of being completely fucking clueless? Congratulations, now you get to expand your agency! So nothing like this ever happens again.

No this happened as their funding is so low they do not have the resources to test every car. So they only have the ability to spot check them.

So yea cut their funding even more as that will surly make these corps follow the rules. :hmm:

 

[momeNt]

No this happened as their funding is so low they do not have the resources to test every car. So they only have the ability to spot check them.

So yea cut their funding even more as that will surly make these corps follow the rules. :hmm:

7 years. Not to mention it wasn't even discovered by the EPA or any public agency for that matter. C'mon man.

 

[Sabrewings]

7 years. Not to mention it wasn't even discovered by the EPA or any public agency for that matter. C'mon man.

So, because your brakes have so little pressure they don't stop you before you hit the wall, you should just remove them entirely? Good plan. You'll be using those walls to stop you a lot more. Why not fix the problem of not enough pressure?