[vr-zone] GTX 590 revision in June

[Jionix]

Exactly. I have yet to hear about a wave of failures of 590s being run within specification. Something tells me I will be waiting a long time.

A very narrow spec too, right? Since Nvidia forces you into that spec regardless through drivers. Right?

And this is opposed to the varying spec of the 460, which was widely encouraged to be overclock? To be pushed as far as possible?

I just find it funny that, depending on what Nvidia is offering, the defense of said offering will change. Overlocking is embraced for one card, promoted everywhere, and is even the considered default for the card vs. the competition.. But then another card, one that is forcefully limited through drivers from overclocking... is equally embraced? What? Now it's the users fault for even trying to overclock?

Hypocritical and ridiculous.

 

[Firestorm007]

A very narrow spec too, right? Since Nvidia forces you into that spec regardless through drivers. Right?

And this is opposed to the varying spec of the 460, which was widely encouraged to be overclock? To be pushed as far as possible?

I just find it funny that, depending on what Nvidia is offering, the defense of said offering will change. Overlocking is embraced for one card, promoted everywhere, and is even the considered default for the card vs. the competition.. But then another card, one that is forcefully limited through drivers from overclocking... is equally embraced? What? Now it's the users fault for even trying to overclock?

Hypocritical and ridiculous.

Very true and well said. I guess their goal posts have wheels.

 

[OCGuy]

A very narrow spec too, right? Since Nvidia forces you into that spec regardless through drivers. Right?

And this is opposed to the varying spec of the 460, which was widely encouraged to be overclock? To be pushed as far as possible?

I just find it funny that, depending on what Nvidia is offering, the defense of said offering will change. Overlocking is embraced for one card, promoted everywhere, and is even the considered default for the card vs. the competition.. But then another card, one that is forcefully limited through drivers from overclocking... is equally embraced? What? Now it's the users fault for even trying to overclock?

Hypocritical and ridiculous.

Applying the same standards to two completely different cards is ludicrous. Over-volting is not some guaranteed endeavor. It should be considered a bonus.

On the 460, it was obvious that it could take the extra juice.

The 590, which was already pushing power and thermal envelopes, couldnt initially be overvolted on air. In fact, some people predicted it could never be made in the first place.


But we had these conversations in the initial 590 thread(s)....

 

[Jionix]

Applying the same standards to two completely different cards is ludicrous. Over-volting is not some guaranteed endeavor. It should be considered a bonus.

On the 460, it was obvious that it could take the extra juice.

The 590, which was already pushing power and thermal envelopes, couldnt initially be overvolted on air. In fact, some people predicted it could never be made in the first place.


But we had these conversations in the initial 590 thread(s)....

Yeah, we did. But I was just reaffirming some of the hypocrisy surrounding all of this.

It's OK when Nvidia severely limits you through drivers to not overclock, but not OK when AMD allows you to, there is a sticker involved

 

[nanaki333]

there's never been any guarantee a card will overclock. it's always been a gamble. people have just gotten too spoiled urking out another 10%-20%+ performance out of their CPU or GPU, that when they finally bake a card, they get all up in arms. i had a gtx 590 but sold it. it worked fine, i just preferred my 6970cfx for eyefinity.

people should be thanking nvidia for giving them what they want. more OC headroom, which is not mandatory for any product.

 

[SirPauly]

Yeah, we did. But I was just reaffirming some of the hypocrisy surrounding all of this.

It's OK when Nvidia severely limits you through drivers to not overclock, but not OK when AMD allows you to, there is a sticker involved

One may over-clock but one can't over-volt.

 

[96Firebird]

there's never been any guarantee a card will overclock. it's always been a gamble. people have just gotten too spoiled urking out another 10%-20%+ performance out of their CPU or GPU, that when they finally bake a card, they get all up in arms. i had a gtx 590 but sold it. it worked fine, i just preferred my 6970cfx for eyefinity.

people should be thanking nvidia for giving them what they want. more OC headroom, which is not mandatory for any product.

This is too hard for some here to comprehend. Seems pretty easy, right?

 

[Dark Shroud]

Yes how dare AMD spoil us by designing highend cards to be OC'd.

 

[notty22]

Also, this has all been gone over before, but some can't comprehend this. With something like this, Nvidia was faced with design limitations.
Look at the price. 730.00, where 2 gtx 580's cost near 1000.00 dollars. This is comparable to m/b prices by the same vendor with the same chipset. What will the more expensive model do ? Probably o/c better.
Nvidia could design the perfect o/c monster- gtx 580X2, but as soon as its out in the wild, it would probably expose countless limitations in peoples motherboards and current power supplies. What they offered was the fastest /quietest product they could build that still made sense.
All of a sudden, the gtx 460 o/c haters now want to overvolt/overclock the fastest video card in the world, oh and run furmark on it for hours. Yes , no common sense, I agree.

 

[Jionix]

Also, this has all been gone over before, but some can't comprehend this. With something like this, Nvidia was faced with design limitations.
Look at the price. 730.00, where 2 gtx 580's cost near 1000.00 dollars. This is comparable to m/b prices by the same vendor with the same chipset. What will the more expensive model do ? Probably o/c better.
Nvidia could design the perfect o/c monster- gtx 580X2, but as soon as its out in the wild, it would probably expose countless limitations in peoples motherboards and current power supplies.

What are you arguing here? That Nvidia was limited by power envelope? By price? Or both?

Either way, you admit that Nvidia under-built the 590. They tried to fit $1,000 worth of performance in a $730 budget. They also tried to fit 600 watt of power into a 350-400 watt design. And look what happened --- A card that is fragile and temperamental, that uses more power than the competition's card, doesn't even beat said card, and is likely to blow up if you try and unleash it's true power.

 

[Keysplayr]

What are you arguing here? That Nvidia was limited by power envelope? By price? Or both?

Either way, you admit that Nvidia under-built the 590.
Umm, I didn't see him say that at all, let alone admit it.
They tried to fit $1,000 worth of performance in a $730 budget.
730.00 is roughly the cost of 2 GTX570s, which astoundingly is the level of performance the 590 offers. 1000.00 worth of performance would be two GTX580's in SLI.
They also tried to fit 600 watt of power into a 350-400 watt design. And look what happened
I am looking. Playing games. On 3 screens in 3D. Not bad for 350-400W design.

--- A card that is fragile and temperamental,
when overvolted on OEM proprietary bios cards. Unfortunate that happened, but it doesn't happen now.
that uses more power than the competition's card,
Yup. And quieter/cooler (but you forgot to mention those things). An oversight I'm sure.
doesn't even beat said card,
I can link to a dozen sites that disagree with you as well as a dozen more that agree with you. Stalemate at best.

and is likely to blow up if you try and unleash it's true power.

fixed version: "and is likely to blow up if you try and run it too far out of spec and overvolt it."

 

[Kenmitch]

I don't understand the price vs performance defense of the 590. It doesn't cost nvidia anymore to make a 570(gpu) than it does a 580(gpu). 2 pcb's for the 580 sli have to cost more than the single pcb of the 590. The only $'s involved would be those lost by nvidia if they would have made the 590's performance closer to 580's sli and left it at the same price point.

I do see the advantage the 590 has over sli rigs tho.

Single slot required, 3 monitors, 3d, etc.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I don't understand the price vs performance defense of the 590. It doesn't cost nvidia anymore to make a 570(gpu) than it does a 580(gpu). 2 pcb's for the 580 sli have to cost more than the single pcb of the 590. The only $'s involved would be those lost by nvidia if they would have made the 590's performance closer to 580's sli and left it at the same price point.

I do see the advantage the 590 has over sli rigs tho.

Single slot required, 3 monitors, 3d, etc.

The 590 isn't single slot?

 

[Tempered81]

The 590 isn't single slot?

No it uses 5 slots

 

[pcm81]

Ok, before people tear each others heads off about OCing being a right vs. privilage; here is the low-down:

A company designs a chip to be ran at say 100Mhz. Now, due to production faults most chips can run at 100MHz, but some, say 20%, fail. So, the chip maker specs the chip at 85MHz, at which point 99.9% of chips work perfectly fine. The chips get sold to general public and overclocking madness starts. Some users ger their 80MHz chip and are able to run it at 100MHz, while other, less lucky folks cant run their chips over 90MHz. Now, extend that analogy to cards. GTX590 was designed to run at 600MHz (just a guess) so, the production spec for gtx 590 was going to be 525MHz. Then HD6990 arives and Nvidia realizes that at 525MHz the 590 can not compete. So, they factory overclock them to 600MHz and ship out to vendors. As the result, the end user has a card which has no safety cusion, or overclocing ability beyond the stock clock. Some cards blow up.

And Nvidia goes back to work to design new gtx590, for the sake of notation, lets call it gtx590NED (gtx 590 Non-Explosive-Design). The new card GTX590NED has better components and is designed to run at say 700MHz, so the factory clocked models at 600MHz have 100MHz OC possibility, for the lucky few that get good cards, which were not in the 20% of units failing at 700MHz.

So, minus the bad original PR everything seems good and solid. Well not as solid as I wish it was. Reason being is that the new card, GTX590NED will support overcocking better, however I bet its thermal solution, which was originally designed for 600MHz mark was not reworked, just the base plate changed to account for new parts. So, while it should still work well at the 600MHz that the cards are shipped at it probably will not work well at 700MHz, which the new cards should be overclockable to, because the thermal capasity equivalent to 600MHz clock was already the target design for thermal solution, so what will its performance be at 700MHz that someone tries to OC gtx590NED to?

 

[Keysplayr]

The 590 isn't single slot?

Did you mean PCB? If so, yes it is a single PCB. If you did mean slots, then yes it uses a single PCI-e slot. If you meant the cooler width, then it uses two bays.

 

[Firestorm007]

nm/cooler heads prevailed. Thanks Keys.

 

[pcm81]

Jealousy? Doubt it. Coming from you that's pretty hilarious. I'm sure that you're the one wearing the Seiko here.

I were Ironman Timex for 10 years through high school and college.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally Posted by OCGuy
It's mostly jealousy, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

This forum is basically a bunch of kids with Seikos talking about Rolexes.[/quote]

Jealousy? Doubt it. Coming from you that's pretty hilarious. I'm sure that you're the one wearing the Seiko here.

Guys, we really don't need you two doing this. Would ya stop it please?

 

[Firestorm007]

Originally Posted by OCGuy
It's mostly jealousy, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

This forum is basically a bunch of kids with Seikos talking about Rolexes.

Guys, we really don't need you two doing this. Would ya stop it please?[/QUOTE]

You're right. I apologize.

 

[pw38]

I were Ironman Timex for 10 years through high school and college.

Good choice. Reliable, well built, and functional. I had one all through school.

 

[AnandThenMan]

I challenge you to demonstrate how the GTX590 I have in my rig is defective. I don't care what the "article" says or what "you" are getting out of it. I'd like to know what you have to say about what I have here, and why it's not working.

So, you want people to somehow reach through the interweb and prove your card is defective? What? :| BTW, there are people that do actually care what the article says, you're free to disregard it.

Fixed? Or improved for overclocking/higher performance? Which is it really?

Everyone knows exactly what it is, a fix for hardware that was under designed.

Because my GTX590 most certainly does not need fixing.

Nvidia does not agree, which is why there is a revision. You don't need to revise the "worlds fastest video card" unless it's not actually the worlds fastest, never mind the obvious hardware limitations. And yes it is very very obvious. Mistakes happen, Nvidia made one. A good company (and their reps) admit the mistakes, fix them, and move on. This is what a credible company does.

 

[Keysplayr]

So, you want people to somehow reach through the interweb and prove your card is defective? What? :| BTW, there are people that do actually care what the article says, you're free to disregard it.

I know, I ask the impossible.
And I have disregarded most of the interpretations of the "article" including yours.

Everyone knows exactly what it is, a fix for hardware that was under designed.

Nvidia does not agree, which is why there is a revision. You don't need to revise the "worlds fastest video card" unless it's not actually the worlds fastest, never mind the obvious hardware limitations. And yes it is very very obvious. Mistakes happen, Nvidia made one. A good company (and their reps) admit the mistakes, fix them, and move on. This is what a credible company does.

Sooooo. Is it defective and the reason for the revision? Or is it because you feel it's not the worlds fastest video card? We know it's not defective. "We" does not include all those who would swear up and down that my GTX590 here is defective as I play Crysis2 again.
And it's not the fastest? Would you like to start flinging review links at each other? As I said above, and big enough to admit, its a stalemate for top dog.

 

[Jionix]

Sooooo. Is it defective and the reason for the revision? Or is it because you feel it's not the worlds fastest video card? We know it's not defective. "We" does not include all those who would swear up and down that my GTX590 here is defective as I play Crysis2 again.
And it's not the fastest? Would you like to start flinging review links at each other? As I said above, and big enough to admit, its a stalemate for top dog.

Do you overclock your card at all? Or do you have it at stock?

 

[AtenRa]

They also tried to fit 600 watt of power into a 350-400 watt design.

Can you please provide technical data for the design??

Everyone knows exactly what it is, a fix for hardware that was under designed.

Can you please provide technical data for the design??