Voter fraud is the biggest lie of 2012

[TerryMathews]

For those of us of a like mind against voter fraud i have a serious question: are you concerned about the federal election, or local elections?

 

[HomerJS]

Copy of story to show how little actual voter fraud there really was. When attorney was unwilling to indict a bunch of ham sandwiches, Bush admin had him fired.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=all

Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews.

Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year.

 

[a777pilot]

For those of us of a like mind against voter fraud i have a serious question: are you concerned about the federal election, or local elections?

Yes!

 

[Paul98]

A problem I see in this thread is people backing what the republicans are actually doing. While defending it with what they want the republicans to be doing.

 

[Paul98]

The other thing is if someone or a group wants to rig or change election results voter fraud would be a terrible way to do it. Also since the problem seems to be so small, even if there are some people who do vote illegally, it's going to happen with people voting for both parties and it will be so few people the difference in votes will be almost 0. Far smaller than I would guess everything else that could change election results.

 

[Jhhnn]

A problem I see in this thread is people backing what the republicans are actually doing. While defending it with what they want the republicans to be doing.

That's been the essence of Repub politics for 30 years. It's a function of identity politics & of being told what they want to believe.

It's not politics in any rational sense- it's religion, pure superstition. When the crops fail & pestilence threatens, when the High Priests of the right wing punditocracy tell them to burn the witches, they set out to burn the witches.

Obviously, the witches are causing the crops to fail & the pestilence, too. If burning witches doesn't change that, it's because they haven't burned all the witches, so they'll burn more.

Pick any issue of today- the fundamentals are the same.

 

[TerryMathews]

The other thing is if someone or a group wants to rig or change election results voter fraud would be a terrible way to do it. Also since the problem seems to be so small, even if there are some people who do vote illegally, it's going to happen with people voting for both parties and it will be so few people the difference in votes will be almost 0. Far smaller than I would guess everything else that could change election results.

This was the point of my earlier post. Voter fraud might get washed out on the federal level but i imagine if it is on the scale i believe it is, out probably HAS influenced local elections especially levies.

 

[a777pilot]

The reason I am so up set with voter fraud and all types of election fraud is because the one thing that is inviolate and the conner stone of a free democratic Republic is the People's trust in the election process.

I for one have way too many doubts in the elections at all levels of the nation. That's not a good thing.

I have a political point of view. I know all of you have picked up on that. I do, or use to, have faith in the wisdom of the American people and our free, fair and open election process. Because of that I never use to be upset or questions the results of that election process. I trusted the will of the People. Be the out come Democrat or Republican.

Sadly, I no longer have that total faith. And, from what I have read here in this thread, I do not think I am alone in that. This is not good for any of us.

 

[trenchfoot]

Apparently the Preachers of Paranoia have done a good job on their flock.

Voter fraud!! BOO! OBAMASCARE! BOO! Fair share taxing of the rich! BOO! Waves and waves of illegals! BOO! Change is coming! BOO! Women's rights! BOO! Equal pay for Equal work! BOO! Cash sucking programs for veterans, the poor and the unemployed! BOO! The rich are SUFFERING!!!!

I wouldn't be able to sleep at night with all of those implanted nightmares swimming around in my head. How do you fundie righties manage to walk in daylight and not freak out when a shadow appears to catch you up from behind? lol

How'd those lyrics go again? "Paranoia will destroy ya."

 

[Smoblikat]

I challenge anyone to come up with documented proof of voter fraud from a reputable source that shows more than a couple of dozen people a year in each state intentionally vote illegally.

Before you start looking you might want to check out the Republican National Lawyers Association which file a brief to support the new voting rules in Texas.
Here are the numbers. the RNL claims 311 cases in the last 10 years(though their 311 number actuallly includes cases back to 1997).
That's less than one vote per state per year. Yes, the best that the Republicans could come up with is less than ONE person PER STATE per YEAR. And it gets worse when you realize these were not convictions, but the number of people charged. Many of them were found innocent when they proved the were citizens, etc.

Here's some linkys:
http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is...nore-the-facts
The above link is what the Republicans say.
The links below show the truth.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/pol...terf034087.php
http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201112120006
http://articles.philly.com/2012-07-11/news/32633427_1_voter-id-law-penndot-ids-support-id-laws

I encourage you to do your own internet searches since there are many webpages devoted to this ridiculous Republican claim.

I knew I saw a pair of arms and a torso vote twice

 

[Jhhnn]

The reason I am so up set with voter fraud and all types of election fraud is because the one thing that is inviolate and the conner stone of a free democratic Republic is the People's trust in the election process.

I for one have way too many doubts in the elections at all levels of the nation. That's not a good thing.

I have a political point of view. I know all of you have picked up on that. I do, or use to, have faith in the wisdom of the American people and our free, fair and open election process. Because of that I never use to be upset or questions the results of that election process. I trusted the will of the People. Be the out come Democrat or Republican.

Sadly, I no longer have that total faith. And, from what I have read here in this thread, I do not think I am alone in that. This is not good for any of us.

Thanks for the contrived concern.

Bringing Jim Crow back from the dead won't "restore" honest elections, even with a sex change & a new dress. That's what the crusade against "voter fraud" is really about, finding a way to make ol' Jim more attractive.

If he appeals to you emotionally, the essence of your last post, that's because you've been made to feel afraid of something that doesn't really exist at a level to be threatening at all.

 

[Paul98]

There are sooooooo many other things that have such a huge impact on elections that are plain wrong, both legal and illegal. To worry about voter fraud and spend time, make it harder for people to vote, disenfranchise large voter segments,... It is just stupid to worry or spend any time on this.

How about we work on things that we know are wrong, know happen, change elections and power.

 

[a777pilot]

There are sooooooo many other things that have such a huge impact on elections that are plain wrong, both legal and illegal. To worry about voter fraud and spend time, make it harder for people to vote, disenfranchise large voter segments,... It is just stupid to worry or spend any time on this.

How about we work on things that we know are wrong, know happen, change elections and power.

For instance?

 

[Paul98]

gerrymandering, throwing out ballots, ballot box stuffing,...

I should add all this money in politics

 

[a777pilot]

gerrymandering, throwing out ballots, ballot box stuffing,...

I agree.

Now how do you solve those problems?

 

[Paul98]

gerrymandering is the easy one, make it so districts are setup automatically due to population, and other parameters. I remember reading about something that sounded good, but I can't really remember much about it.

For the others, what we need a good counting and duplicate system for votes. Both computerized and on paper. Along with human, and maybe video monitor. There are lots of other things, and ways that could be used to help stop voting problems.

 

[hal2kilo]

gerrymandering, throwing out ballots, ballot box stuffing,...

I should add all this money in politics

Don't forget electronic voting machines with no paper trail developed by companies that are large contributors to the Republicon party.

 

[WHAMPOM]

I agree.

Now how do you solve those problems?

UN observers and troops at the ballet boxes? Works in the other third world countries don't it?

 

[hal2kilo]

UN observers and troops at the ballet boxes? Works in the other third world countries don't it?

It would be interesting to get a taste or our own medicine. Maybe we would realize we aren't the democratic (as far a voting) paradise as we think we are.

And for you righties, would have kept the Black Panthers from having the big effect on our elections like the last one:sneaky:

 

[blackangst1]

Don't forget electronic voting machines with no paper trail developed by companies that are large contributors to the Republicon party.

 

[hal2kilo]

So you are perfectly comfortable with electronic voting machines with no paper trail that can be audited?

But you fret about virtually non-existent in person voter fraud. Got it.

I wonder who has the tin foil hat on now?

 

[ky54]

In every election the military is notoriously disenfranchised. Case closed.

 

[a777pilot]

Don't forget electronic voting machines with no paper trail developed by companies that are large contributors to the Republicon party.

You mean computer nerds run by the Democrats?

I don't like elctronic voting. ALL voting should be on paper ballots.

 

[DrPizza]

Disenfranchised

I just have one thing to say about that term. If you can't be bothered to get an ID to vote, you aren't enfranchised in the first place. It's a bullshit term. Personally, I don't want people going to the polls who know absolutely nothing about what they're voting for. There are too many people like that.

 

[sandorski]

Voter fraud is rampant and should be the #1 campaign issue