Voter fraud is the biggest lie of 2012

[MooseNSquirrel]

If you really don't believe that the dead, the made up and illegals don't vote and vote in large numbers than you need to get out in the real world and look around.

Again thanks for the laugh and the example of rectal-cranial inversion.

Pretty simple a777pilot, either you have evidence to show us or you don't.


"Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them"

 

[a777pilot]

Pretty simple a777pilot, either you have evidence to show us or you don't.


"Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them"

It's there. I did not make up this shit....and shit is about what all the voter fraud is. Both Democrat and Republican voter fraud is an affront to all that have fought, bled and died for our freedoms.

 

[SBT810]

Aren't conservatives ideologically opposed to unnecessary laws and regulations? I thought conservative politicians want any new regulations to pass a cost vs. benefit muster. There is no evidence that voter fraud is a problem in Pennsylvania. In fact, there is not ONE case in the past ten years of a person impersonating another at the polls. To implement this unnecessary law will cost millions of dollars. Yet it is even worse than a simple waste of money. It's a flagrant attempt to deprive people of their constitutionally guaranteed rights. Turzai revealed the true intent of this expensive new regulation -- to suppress the vote. Corbett and the Repub legislators should be jailed for this attempt to deprive their fellow citizens of the their constitutionally-guaranteed rights. They have shamelessly abused their power in a criminal way.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

It's there. I did not make up this shit....and shit is about what all the voter fraud is. Both Democrat and Republican voter fraud is an affront to all that have fought, bled and died for our freedoms.

"there is no there there"

 

[techs]

Aren't conservatives ideologically opposed to unnecessary laws and regulations? I thought conservative politicians want any new regulations to pass a cost vs. benefit muster. There is no evidence that voter fraud is a problem in Pennsylvania. In fact, there is not ONE case in the past ten years of a person impersonating another at the polls. To implement this unnecessary law will cost millions of dollars. Yet it is even worse than a simple waste of money. It's a flagrant attempt to deprive people of their constitutionally guaranteed rights. Turzai revealed the true intent of this expensive new regulation -- to suppress the vote. Corbett and the Repub legislators should be jailed for this attempt to deprive their fellow citizens of the their constitutionally-guaranteed rights. They have shamelessly abused their power in a criminal way.

Great first post! I agree one hundred percent.

The only possible area of disagreement would be whether denying citizens the vote is treason, or if its an attack against our country and its Constitution.
I think that this is one of the few crimes that should be punished by the death penalty.

 

[CallMeJoe]

You wouldn't believe me if I proved the sky is blue.

I direct your attention to Minnesota, California, Texas, Washington, Illinois, Florida, Missouri, South Dakota, Louisiana. Those are just a few States that have recent Democrat voter fraud. Spend some time and research on your own. You just might learn something.

Contrary to what your favorite talking heads tell you, Democrats winning elections is not de facto proof of electoral fraud.

 

[cybrsage]

Because registering to vote is often a passive activity. You go shopping at the mall and a person with a clip-board registers you during voter registration drives.

You say passive then you describe active. You MUST do something to be registerd to vote - it does not happen with you ACTIVELY doing something. It is obvious some otherwise lawful voters are not able to vote due to voter registration being a requirement.

Again I ask, why are you supporting voter suppression by supporting voter registration?

Any dem can answer this question.

 

[a777pilot]

Contrary to what your favorite talking heads tell you, Democrats winning elections is not de facto proof of electoral fraud.

That is true. I have no problem with Democrats winning elections. I have no problem with Republicans winning election. I have a really big problem with both Democrats and Republicans cheating in the vote and the vote count.

Here is an old example:

Presidential historian Robert Dallek writes:

"According to the Texas Election Bureau, an unofficial election agency run by Texas newspapers, Stevenson led at midnight by 2,119 votes out of 939,468 counted. 'Well, it looks like we've lost,' Lady Bird told Dorothy Nichols on the phone."

Or so it seemed. The votes kept coming in and the results went back and forth; victory was now declared for Stevenson, now for Johnson, now for Stevenson. After most of the tallies, the governor held a slight advantage. Then, six days after the election, a funny thing happened: 203 votes turned up in Box 13 from the pint-sized town of Alice, Texas. Even funnier: 202 of those votes were for Lyndon Johnson. The Stevenson campaign smelled a rat when it was discovered that the votes had been cast at the last minute and in alphabetical order. Charges of election fraud ensued, and the disputed contest went all the way to the Supreme Court, where Justice Hugo Black upheld Johnson's 11th-hour win. He was declared the winner by 87 votes.

It would take almost three decades for the truth to out. As Thomas Woods reports, in 1977 "the election judge in Alice admitted that he had helped rig the election." "Landslide Lyndon" always found a way to win.

For you that do not know, Justice Hugo Black was a Democrat.


I know this is not what you wanted, but I really don't care. You would not believe me even if I could point out an actual person that is in prison today that is there for voter fraud. There just might be some. Lord knows that the State of Illinois puts a lot of Democrats in prison.

The point is, there is voter fraud going on all the time. Sadly most of it seems to be for and by Democrats. There are many examples out in the real world.

None are so blind as those that will not see.

 

[techs]

Sorry, but you know nothing.
You're giving an example of election fraud, not voter fraud.
You have failed completely.

 

[fskimospy]

That is true. I have no problem with Democrats winning elections. I have no problem with Republicans winning election. I have a really big problem with both Democrats and Republicans cheating in the vote and the vote count.

Here is an old example:



For you that do not know, Justice Hugo Black was a Democrat.

/facepalm. This seems to be referring to the contested 1948 election. Stevenson was a Democrat too, so why would Hugo Black's party affiliation matter?

I know this is not what you wanted, but I really don't care. You would not believe me even if I could point out an actual person that is in prison today that is there for voter fraud. There just might be some. Lord knows that the State of Illinois puts a lot of Democrats in prison.

The point is, there is voter fraud going on all the time. Sadly most of it seems to be for and by Democrats. There are many examples out in the real world.

None are so blind as those that will not see.

You had to go back 65 years for an example and the best one you could find would not have been prevented by voter ID laws. Epic failure indeed. Truly none are so blind as those who will not see. It's sad that you're so desperately clinging to a religious faith in voter fraud no matter the total lack of evidence.

 

[Brainonska511]

clipped stuff about Johnson election

Even if that is the case, how would photo ids help stop that type of fraud (for clarity: ballot box stuffing by election officials), which seems to be of much greater concern to confidence in the electoral system versus some vast conspiracy of people that go from polling place to polling place on election day casting fraudulent votes in other peoples names. If the latter was the case, you would expect at least one person to come forward and say that they had problems voting on Election Day because someone voted in their place.

 

[fskimospy]

Even if that is the case, how would photo ids help stop that type of fraud (for clarity: ballot box stuffing by election officials), which seems to be of much greater concern to confidence in the electoral system versus some vast conspiracy of people that go from polling place to polling place on election day casting fraudulent votes in other peoples names. If the latter was the case, you would expect at least one person to come forward and say that they had problems voting on Election Day because someone voted in their place.

People who believe in in person voter fraud also must believe that the would be fraudsters are electoral supervillains who carefully plot their fraud by extensively researching who they can best get away with impersonating so that they are never caught.

All so they can cast their single additional vote. They are actually totally like the Legion of Doom on the Superfriends. They are the type of criminals that build a $40 billion doom laser to melt a bank vault door to steal $100,000.

 

[hal2kilo]

Even if that is the case, how would photo ids help stop that type of fraud (for clarity: ballot box stuffing by election officials), which seems to be of much greater concern to confidence in the electoral system versus some vast conspiracy of people that go from polling place to polling place on election day casting fraudulent votes in other peoples names. If the latter was the case, you would expect at least one person to come forward and say that they had problems voting on Election Day because someone voted in their place.

As I've stated before, the majority of fraud is not in the voting but the counting.

 

[fskimospy]

As I've stated before, the majority of fraud is not in the voting but the counting.

Of course. The risk/reward for in person voter fraud is truly insanely bad. That's why it basically never happens in the real world. The real way to do some good fraud is through absentee ballots (as you can fill out a lot of them easily), or through rigging the polling place itself.

These facts aren't lost on the people making these laws, they just don't care. That's because preventing fraud is not their true objective, voter suppression is.

 

[a777pilot]

Voter fraud vice election fraud....or vice versa.

Good and valid point.

I became aware of the voter fraud, which I will narrowly define as non-US citizens voting, in the late 1970's. I read a DoD report on the greatest dangers facing this nation. One of those dangers was the increasing influx of non-citizens , especially mexican citizens, voting in State and nation US elections. The DoD report stated at that time there were hundreds of thousands that were voting in our election.

 

[TerryMathews]

Just saw where the Obama admin reversed itself and is letting FL have access to the non citizen database, first time a state election board had been granted access, but not the first time a state had tried to get access.

It will be interesting to see how many non citizens were registered to vote. I imagine one of the sides of this debate will be vindicated shortly.

Just want to make sure the blue side is in agreement: purging the voter rolls of verified non citizens is legit, right?

 

[fskimospy]

Just saw where the Obama admin reversed itself and is letting FL have access to the non citizen database, first time a state election board had been granted access, but not the first time a state had tried to get access.

It will be interesting to see how many non citizens were registered to vote. I imagine one of the sides of this debate will be vindicated shortly.

Just want to make sure the blue side is in agreement: purging the voter rolls of verified non citizens is legit, right?

That wouldn't be proof of voter fraud, nor would an ID requirement protect against that. In person voter fraud is extremely easy to prove, the main obstacle to people actually doing it is that it doesn't really exist.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Just saw where the Obama admin reversed itself and is letting FL have access to the non citizen database, first time a state election board had been granted access, but not the first time a state had tried to get access.

It will be interesting to see how many non citizens were registered to vote. I imagine one of the sides of this debate will be vindicated shortly.

Just want to make sure the blue side is in agreement: purging the voter rolls of verified non citizens is legit, right?

That seems like the proper way to do something like this. It still won't tell us how many of them actually voted.

 

[techs]

Just saw where the Obama admin reversed itself and is letting FL have access to the non citizen database, first time a state election board had been granted access, but not the first time a state had tried to get access.

It will be interesting to see how many non citizens were registered to vote. I imagine one of the sides of this debate will be vindicated shortly.

Just want to make sure the blue side is in agreement: purging the voter rolls of verified non citizens is legit, right?

A resounding MAYBE. The way it has been done in the past is strictly by names. This is how a 90 year decorated veteran gets his voter registration cancelled. He has the same name as someone on the list who is a non citizen. Also, there is the question as to how old the list is. People could have become citizens, registered perfectly legally, then be dropped from the rolls.
Even when you try to do it by names and addresses you wind up disqualifying people who have moved.

So, lets say they find a name on the non citizen list whose name appears on the voter registration rolls. First step would be to check if they actually voted. If they have, then an investigator needs to go and find them. If the person is really a citizen, or there is another reason that is not fraud, then thats the end of it. If there is evidence they voted illegally, then, when charges are filed, and they either plead guilty or are convicted of not just registering to vote, but actually voting, then yes, you have proven a case of voter fraud.
Thats the American system of justice.

 

[a777pilot]

Just saw where the Obama admin reversed itself and is letting FL have access to the non citizen database, first time a state election board had been granted access, but not the first time a state had tried to get access.

It will be interesting to see how many non citizens were registered to vote. I imagine one of the sides of this debate will be vindicated shortly.

Just want to make sure the blue side is in agreement: purging the voter rolls of verified non citizens is legit, right?

This is the obama Administration, so I wonder if the so called non-citizen database is accurate.

p.s., Besides, what the fuck is a non-citizen database anyway?

 

[a777pilot]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-voting-floridabre86d0er-20120714,0,7020435.story

 

[TerryMathews]

A resounding MAYBE. The way it has been done in the past is strictly by names. This is how a 90 year decorated veteran gets his voter registration cancelled. He has the same name as someone on the list who is a non citizen. Also, there is the question as to how old the list is. People could have become citizens, registered perfectly legally, then be dropped from the rolls.
Even when you try to do it by names and addresses you wind up disqualifying people who have moved.

So, lets say they find a name on the non citizen list whose name appears on the voter registration rolls. First step would be to check if they actually voted. If they have, then an investigator needs to go and find them. If the person is really a citizen, or there is another reason that is not fraud, then thats the end of it. If there is evidence they voted illegally, then, when charges are filed, and they either plead guilty or are convicted of not just registering to vote, but actually voting, then yes, you have proven a case of voter fraud.
Thats the American system of justice.

Agreed. So then we concur that any matches between the voter rolls and the non citizen database deserved investigation? And are worthy of scrutiny?

 

[a777pilot]

Just saw where the Obama admin reversed itself and is letting FL have access to the non citizen database....

LOL!

Turns out that they were forced into this because a Federal judge ruled against this Administration. So the word "letting" is a misuse of a word.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Well they had good reason to resist, considering how flawed the cross reference list was that Florida was trying to use.

Don't kid yourselves into thinking this was some great legal victory. Both sides still have to agree to certain things, which in the end will limit Florida's ability to suppress voting.

 

[Jadow]

In my opinion this is the worst thing ever

Wow, exaggerate much?