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Voodoo5 ain't cutting it..what's a fella to do?
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Okay, I found some tweak suggestions in another topic that seem to contradict what I had been trying, so I will give them a try when I get home tonight.
However, the complete lack of driver support makes me think I should probably get something else, and quick. I think I am going to go with the GeForce over the Radeon. Of all the threads I have read, that seems the most stable. I might swap it out if I don't like it, but I think I am going GeForce.
But which one? Is there a "best" GeForce? The Gladiac? Can't think of the others one I have heard about right now. Remember, has to be in the $150-200 range at a B&M (most likely CompUSA). Which will give me the most stable performance and let me play the latest games for the longest amount of time?
However, the complete lack of driver support makes me think I should probably get something else, and quick. I think I am going to go with the GeForce over the Radeon. Of all the threads I have read, that seems the most stable. I might swap it out if I don't like it, but I think I am going GeForce.
But which one? Is there a "best" GeForce? The Gladiac? Can't think of the others one I have heard about right now. Remember, has to be in the $150-200 range at a B&M (most likely CompUSA). Which will give me the most stable performance and let me play the latest games for the longest amount of time?
SuperGroove
Diamond Member
In my honest opinion go with an Nvidia GeForce 2 GTS. Enjoy the annoying crashes, bugs, and awkward drivers. Seriously...without anymore driver, I can't recommend the V5 5500 no matter how much i think it's the most kickass card I've ever owned. I've never been more content with my video card as I am now. However...I need driver updates...even if they are buggy🙁
Paul
Paul
dude, with a low-end CPU, a 5500 is going to be sucking wind. a 700 celeron-II is definitely low-end. Subtract 200 MHz from that to compare to an Athlon or a P3.
You'll probably want a GTS, which can be had for the $$$ you mentioned.
Go with Leadtek for the $$$, although there apparently is a ridiculous deal on the Elsa, which is essentially the same thing.
and once again, ignore what RobsTV has to say about the V3 stability. He is the exception rather than the norm.
that being said, the GTS is an excellent card overall. With 3dfx not having much future driver support, it might be wise of you to give up the 5500, since yo'ure obviously not attached to FSAA.
If you ever decide to start playing any type of racing or flight sims tho, keep the 5500. IT's FSAA will more than make up for any lack of future driver support. DX8 games won't be out until the NV20 is a reasonable price, so don't sweat it.
You use Win2k, so I'd avoid the Radeon. nVidia has the best Win2k drivers out for speed right now, and I don't see ATi topping them.
You'll probably want a GTS, which can be had for the $$$ you mentioned.
Go with Leadtek for the $$$, although there apparently is a ridiculous deal on the Elsa, which is essentially the same thing.
and once again, ignore what RobsTV has to say about the V3 stability. He is the exception rather than the norm.
that being said, the GTS is an excellent card overall. With 3dfx not having much future driver support, it might be wise of you to give up the 5500, since yo'ure obviously not attached to FSAA.
If you ever decide to start playing any type of racing or flight sims tho, keep the 5500. IT's FSAA will more than make up for any lack of future driver support. DX8 games won't be out until the NV20 is a reasonable price, so don't sweat it.
You use Win2k, so I'd avoid the Radeon. nVidia has the best Win2k drivers out for speed right now, and I don't see ATi topping them.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Er, BW, note in my post you were replying to:
"I'll gladly post links to 5-6 articles that show the Radeon faster than a V5 at 10X7X32>. (on several games, UT included)"
The "10X7X32>" is the key you're missing. See, Radeon/GTS users don't play at 640X480X16 anymore, we've moved past that.
The links you posted show Radeons beating the V5 at 10X7X32>, just like I said.
"It ain't so"
BTW- comparing the V5 to the 64Mb Radeon is the more accurate comparison, both are 64 MB cards, both are the best their respective firms have to offer.
"I'll gladly post links to 5-6 articles that show the Radeon faster than a V5 at 10X7X32>. (on several games, UT included)"
The "10X7X32>" is the key you're missing. See, Radeon/GTS users don't play at 640X480X16 anymore, we've moved past that.
The links you posted show Radeons beating the V5 at 10X7X32>, just like I said.
"It ain't so"
BTW- comparing the V5 to the 64Mb Radeon is the more accurate comparison, both are 64 MB cards, both are the best their respective firms have to offer.
Its well know the Radeon does well in 32 bit. The 5500 smokes its ass in 16 bit and is only about 5-6 fps bihind in32 bit.thats with older drivers also.Yes i dont play anything below 1024x768 you FXXK.I didnt say i played in 640x480 did i. Anyway the point is that the 5500 is alot faster on my system.I would think that with the newer drivers that the 5500 would even beat the 32meg readeon in most 32 bit as well.
Jethro Bodine
Member
BW-
I just can't recommend anyone hang in there with the V5. :-(
The 32MB Radeon is as fast at 32 bit color, which is what most people play at now, and it's cheaper.
The Radeon's feature set makes the V5 look like something from Apple 2+ days.
The Radeon's image quality and video play back are reputedly better. (I only say "reputedly" because I've never used a V5)
The company which makes the V5 just went bankrupt/closed, so there will be no support or drivers.
DX8 is what developers will be coding for, and the Radeon has the most complete DX8 feature set by far.
The one unique feature the V5 has (TBuffer effects) has been totally ignored by the programming community.
Most of the games coming out now use T/L, bump mapping, etc..
The Radeons will hold their value for resale at upgrade time better, while the further we get into 2001, the lower the V5s price will go.
After all this, can you actually tell someone in good conscious,"Keep the V5, it's got good compatibility and FSAA"?!
I just can't recommend anyone hang in there with the V5. :-(
The 32MB Radeon is as fast at 32 bit color, which is what most people play at now, and it's cheaper.
The Radeon's feature set makes the V5 look like something from Apple 2+ days.
The Radeon's image quality and video play back are reputedly better. (I only say "reputedly" because I've never used a V5)
The company which makes the V5 just went bankrupt/closed, so there will be no support or drivers.
DX8 is what developers will be coding for, and the Radeon has the most complete DX8 feature set by far.
The one unique feature the V5 has (TBuffer effects) has been totally ignored by the programming community.
Most of the games coming out now use T/L, bump mapping, etc..
The Radeons will hold their value for resale at upgrade time better, while the further we get into 2001, the lower the V5s price will go.
After all this, can you actually tell someone in good conscious,"Keep the V5, it's got good compatibility and FSAA"?!
Jethro Bodine
Member
Last but not least, the V5 is a very cpu dependent/inefficient card, and this guy's original post was asking what he can do to get better framerates with a Cel 700.
I suppose he could go buy a 1GHz cpu, but I was playing my Q3 as fast as the 1GHz V5 guys all year on my lowly PIII-600/GTS.
(at least until I got the Radeon VIVO/now I have that awesome image quality)
Given his system specs, the ONLY way he's going to get some better framerates for $150 is to buy a GTS.
He can sell his V5 for $100. or so, buy a GTS, be out $50 and have a LOT faster card.
I suppose he could go buy a 1GHz cpu, but I was playing my Q3 as fast as the 1GHz V5 guys all year on my lowly PIII-600/GTS.
(at least until I got the Radeon VIVO/now I have that awesome image quality)
Given his system specs, the ONLY way he's going to get some better framerates for $150 is to buy a GTS.
He can sell his V5 for $100. or so, buy a GTS, be out $50 and have a LOT faster card.
Jethro:
comparing the V5 to the 64Mb Radeon is the more accurate comparison, both are 64 MB cards, both are the best their respective firms have to offer
I'll disagree. The 5500 is $60 cheaper than a Radeon64MB. Compare by price. The 5500, GTS32 and Radeon 32 should be compared. Besides, the 64MB Radeon is out of his price range.
Also note, in your comparison of UT, you're ignoring glide, which is a major mistake when talking about UT. Don't fall into the mindless, moronic trap that so many lazy-ass reviewers want you to fall into. No 5500 user uses D3d for UT.
The Radeon's feature set makes the V5 look like something from Apple 2+ days.
Dot3 and anisotropic are quite nice on the Radeon, shame their FSAA sucks such royal donkey balls.
I'll take NFS-porsche w/4xFSAA on the 5500 over crap games like Evolva and Sacrifice any day of the week, despite their Dot3. They look good, and are a sure fire way to cure insomnia.
The Radeon's image quality and video play back are reputedly better. (I only say "reputedly" because I've never used a V5)
The Radeon's playback far outclasses the 5500, no doubt. The image quality is better in some cases, worse in others.
The company which makes the V5 just went bankrupt/closed, so there will be no support or drivers.
There will be one more set of drivers released, then that's it. What's nice is that the 5500 doesn't really have any bugs to fix, each driver basically is just a performance increase over the previous, with very few, minor bug fixes.
Unfortunately, as newer games come out, there might be compatibility issues (tho 3dfx isn't known for this), so who knows. :frown:
DX8 is what developers will be coding for, and the Radeon has the most complete DX8 feature set by far.
1) The Radeon is far from being a "DX8 card". It has more DX8 features, but don't fool yourself into thinking it's more "future proof". There is no such animal in the computer world. If you believe otherwise, you are naively optimistic and should perhaps remove your head from the sand.
2) By the time DX8 games hit the market, the Radeon will be too slow to really be considered very good for many of the features. A lowbrow game like Evolva's Dot3 brings the Radeon down to around 60 fps. What is going to happen when a far more geometry and graphically-intensive game comes out? Are you going to be able to enable Dot3 then?
Most of the games coming out now use T/L, bump mapping, etc..
"use T/L" - still waiting for a game where T&L makes a difference....so far...none have....
Sacrifice and Evolva are non-issues.
The Radeons will hold their value for resale at upgrade time better, while the further we get into 2001, the lower the V5s price will go.
agreed 100%
After all this, can you actually tell someone in good conscious,"Keep the V5, it's got good compatibility and FSAA"?!
I'll tell them both sides.
I'll also say "ain't no new games coming out worth a damn that don't play great on a V5"
After the Christmas holiday season, where I spent entirely too much money on "games for the kids" (hehehe...) I've come to the conclusion that very few games are coming out that are actually new, interesting, or worthwhile. Gameplay is either boring (Sacrifice) or derivative (sequels galore).
The games from this past year that have shown themselves to be worthwhile (BG2, Mech4, Hitman, Deux Ex, NOLF, SoF, Crimson Skies, FS2000, CFS2000) all play as good or better on the 5500 than anything else (notable exception: Giants and Alice play damn good on a 5500, but fuggin' own on a GTS-Ultra)
You won't see Sacrifice ending up on anyone's "best games" list, tho Giants may make it.
I'm still waiting for a game that makes me wish I had something other than the 5500. When I do, I'll upgrade. Giants is damn good, and is the closest thing to making me want to change cards, but the "downside" of changing cards (the other 50 or so games I play) is too great, IMHO.
Given his system specs, the ONLY way he's going to get some better framerates for $150 is to buy a GTS.
bull$hit. He could upgrade his CPU and hit 900+ easily, which would upgrade ALL his games and ALL his apps, instead of only upgrading Q3.
How fast do you think UT or Need For Speed or any flight sim plays on a Celeron 700, regardless of the video card? Get real.
He can sell his V5 for $100. or so, buy a GTS, be out $50 and have a LOT faster card.
or, he can dump that POS Celeron and get a real CPU, which will speed up his entire system. Just checked, and he has a kickass Asus CUSL2 mobo. They overclock P3-CuMine's like a champ!!!
His price range of "$150-$200" will net him a P3-700 cC0 or a P3-800, both of which will hit 1-Gig+ easily.
Once you hit the 900+ range on a 5500, the damn thing just FLIES....
Upgrading his video card would be silly. His Celeron 700 will slow him down in EVERYTHING. Why keep a POS CPU and upgrade the video card when he can dump the CPU and get something worthwhile?
Hell, for $200, he can buy a Duron 800, FOP32, and a MSI K7T Pro2a and hit 1-Gig (just did this myself!! WH000T! FAST-AS-HELL!!!)
then he could sell his POS Celeron for about $5.50, buy himself a Value Meal (supersize) from McDonald's, and sell his motherboard for about $130, and buy a crapload of RAM. Then his ENTIRE SYSTEM would be upgraded, not just his video card. Especially considering that the "upgrade" you're talking about is marginal at best, and presently, in almost all cases, is actually a DOWNGRADE.
So he could
1) sell the 5500 for $100 and buy a GTS, which would upgrade a few games, but do nothing for his entire system, and would downgrade several games (anything that can run glide)
2) sell the 5500 and buy a Radeon 32MB which would upgrade....his DVD playback
3) sell the POS Celeron, buy himself lunch, and buy a P3-700, 750 or 800, and hit 933-1+ Gig, which would upgrade EVERY single game and EVERY single app by mindblowing amounts (remember, a Celeron-2 is about 200 MHz "slower" than a P3. He has a P3-500, essentially)
4) Sell the POS Celeron, buy himself lunch, sell his mobo, buy a FOP32 + Duron 800 + MSI K7T Pro2a, which would upgrade EVERY game and EVERY app by tremendous amounts.
Gee...<taps foot on ground with puzzled look> wonder which one makes sense
/edited several times
comparing the V5 to the 64Mb Radeon is the more accurate comparison, both are 64 MB cards, both are the best their respective firms have to offer
I'll disagree. The 5500 is $60 cheaper than a Radeon64MB. Compare by price. The 5500, GTS32 and Radeon 32 should be compared. Besides, the 64MB Radeon is out of his price range.
Also note, in your comparison of UT, you're ignoring glide, which is a major mistake when talking about UT. Don't fall into the mindless, moronic trap that so many lazy-ass reviewers want you to fall into. No 5500 user uses D3d for UT.
The Radeon's feature set makes the V5 look like something from Apple 2+ days.
Dot3 and anisotropic are quite nice on the Radeon, shame their FSAA sucks such royal donkey balls.
I'll take NFS-porsche w/4xFSAA on the 5500 over crap games like Evolva and Sacrifice any day of the week, despite their Dot3. They look good, and are a sure fire way to cure insomnia.
The Radeon's image quality and video play back are reputedly better. (I only say "reputedly" because I've never used a V5)
The Radeon's playback far outclasses the 5500, no doubt. The image quality is better in some cases, worse in others.
The company which makes the V5 just went bankrupt/closed, so there will be no support or drivers.
There will be one more set of drivers released, then that's it. What's nice is that the 5500 doesn't really have any bugs to fix, each driver basically is just a performance increase over the previous, with very few, minor bug fixes.
Unfortunately, as newer games come out, there might be compatibility issues (tho 3dfx isn't known for this), so who knows. :frown:
DX8 is what developers will be coding for, and the Radeon has the most complete DX8 feature set by far.
1) The Radeon is far from being a "DX8 card". It has more DX8 features, but don't fool yourself into thinking it's more "future proof". There is no such animal in the computer world. If you believe otherwise, you are naively optimistic and should perhaps remove your head from the sand.
2) By the time DX8 games hit the market, the Radeon will be too slow to really be considered very good for many of the features. A lowbrow game like Evolva's Dot3 brings the Radeon down to around 60 fps. What is going to happen when a far more geometry and graphically-intensive game comes out? Are you going to be able to enable Dot3 then?
Most of the games coming out now use T/L, bump mapping, etc..
"use T/L" - still waiting for a game where T&L makes a difference....so far...none have....
Sacrifice and Evolva are non-issues.
The Radeons will hold their value for resale at upgrade time better, while the further we get into 2001, the lower the V5s price will go.
agreed 100%
After all this, can you actually tell someone in good conscious,"Keep the V5, it's got good compatibility and FSAA"?!
I'll tell them both sides.
I'll also say "ain't no new games coming out worth a damn that don't play great on a V5"
After the Christmas holiday season, where I spent entirely too much money on "games for the kids" (hehehe...) I've come to the conclusion that very few games are coming out that are actually new, interesting, or worthwhile. Gameplay is either boring (Sacrifice) or derivative (sequels galore).
The games from this past year that have shown themselves to be worthwhile (BG2, Mech4, Hitman, Deux Ex, NOLF, SoF, Crimson Skies, FS2000, CFS2000) all play as good or better on the 5500 than anything else (notable exception: Giants and Alice play damn good on a 5500, but fuggin' own on a GTS-Ultra)
You won't see Sacrifice ending up on anyone's "best games" list, tho Giants may make it.
I'm still waiting for a game that makes me wish I had something other than the 5500. When I do, I'll upgrade. Giants is damn good, and is the closest thing to making me want to change cards, but the "downside" of changing cards (the other 50 or so games I play) is too great, IMHO.
Given his system specs, the ONLY way he's going to get some better framerates for $150 is to buy a GTS.
bull$hit. He could upgrade his CPU and hit 900+ easily, which would upgrade ALL his games and ALL his apps, instead of only upgrading Q3.
How fast do you think UT or Need For Speed or any flight sim plays on a Celeron 700, regardless of the video card? Get real.
He can sell his V5 for $100. or so, buy a GTS, be out $50 and have a LOT faster card.
or, he can dump that POS Celeron and get a real CPU, which will speed up his entire system. Just checked, and he has a kickass Asus CUSL2 mobo. They overclock P3-CuMine's like a champ!!!
His price range of "$150-$200" will net him a P3-700 cC0 or a P3-800, both of which will hit 1-Gig+ easily.
Once you hit the 900+ range on a 5500, the damn thing just FLIES....
Upgrading his video card would be silly. His Celeron 700 will slow him down in EVERYTHING. Why keep a POS CPU and upgrade the video card when he can dump the CPU and get something worthwhile?
Hell, for $200, he can buy a Duron 800, FOP32, and a MSI K7T Pro2a and hit 1-Gig (just did this myself!! WH000T! FAST-AS-HELL!!!)
then he could sell his POS Celeron for about $5.50, buy himself a Value Meal (supersize) from McDonald's, and sell his motherboard for about $130, and buy a crapload of RAM. Then his ENTIRE SYSTEM would be upgraded, not just his video card. Especially considering that the "upgrade" you're talking about is marginal at best, and presently, in almost all cases, is actually a DOWNGRADE.
So he could
1) sell the 5500 for $100 and buy a GTS, which would upgrade a few games, but do nothing for his entire system, and would downgrade several games (anything that can run glide)
2) sell the 5500 and buy a Radeon 32MB which would upgrade....his DVD playback
3) sell the POS Celeron, buy himself lunch, and buy a P3-700, 750 or 800, and hit 933-1+ Gig, which would upgrade EVERY single game and EVERY single app by mindblowing amounts (remember, a Celeron-2 is about 200 MHz "slower" than a P3. He has a P3-500, essentially)
4) Sell the POS Celeron, buy himself lunch, sell his mobo, buy a FOP32 + Duron 800 + MSI K7T Pro2a, which would upgrade EVERY game and EVERY app by tremendous amounts.
Gee...<taps foot on ground with puzzled look> wonder which one makes sense
/edited several times
Draken, the short version of my longwinded, typically babble-some post is as follows:
1) If you can spend $150-$200, you are FAR FAR FAR better off upgrading your CPU (yes, it IS in your budget, have you seen CPU prices lately? check anand's CPU/video card buying guide!)
2) A P3-700, 750 or 800 will cost you no more than $200, and on a CUSL2, hitting 900-1000MHz would be a simple BIOS setting.
3) If you upgrade your CPU, all your games and applications will fly like the wind (see sig, believe me, I ditched a 64MB GTS cuz the 5500 just loves the CPU power)
4) If you change video cards, at best, you will upgrade a few games (OGL games on the GTS), upgrade your DVD playback abilities (Radeon 32MB), and downgrade almost every single game you play that was released prior to 2000.
5) My final advice is either:
a) Ditch the CUSL2 and the Celeron-2 and buy a Duron 800, fop32, and MSI K7T Pro2a and hit 1-Gig
b) Give the celeron to your worst enemy, or try to trade it in for a nice teriyaki lunch or something. Then buy a P3-700, 750 or 800 and hit 900-1Gig
If you choose to change video cards, you'll end up losing a lot more than you gain, considering the alternative of upgrading your CPU
1) If you can spend $150-$200, you are FAR FAR FAR better off upgrading your CPU (yes, it IS in your budget, have you seen CPU prices lately? check anand's CPU/video card buying guide!)
2) A P3-700, 750 or 800 will cost you no more than $200, and on a CUSL2, hitting 900-1000MHz would be a simple BIOS setting.
3) If you upgrade your CPU, all your games and applications will fly like the wind (see sig, believe me, I ditched a 64MB GTS cuz the 5500 just loves the CPU power)
4) If you change video cards, at best, you will upgrade a few games (OGL games on the GTS), upgrade your DVD playback abilities (Radeon 32MB), and downgrade almost every single game you play that was released prior to 2000.
5) My final advice is either:
a) Ditch the CUSL2 and the Celeron-2 and buy a Duron 800, fop32, and MSI K7T Pro2a and hit 1-Gig
b) Give the celeron to your worst enemy, or try to trade it in for a nice teriyaki lunch or something. Then buy a P3-700, 750 or 800 and hit 900-1Gig
If you choose to change video cards, you'll end up losing a lot more than you gain, considering the alternative of upgrading your CPU
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
Robo-
If he had the $200 to spend I would agree with you, but he is working on store credit in a B&M, no way he's going to be able to float the upgrade you suggested. Without ditching the V5, he doesn't have any cash.
With those constraints, I would say either a Radeon 32MB DDR or GTS would be his best bet. The games he mentioned he was looking at almost all run quite a bit better on a GTS or Radeon then on a V5, particularly with a Celery.
BTW- The T-Bird 900 I had on order failed to go through(@ss holes took my money and said they would send it out priority, finally got them to respond to email two weeks later saying they didn't have any:|:|:|:|), so I am getting a setup almost identical to yours(though I went with the Chrome Orb instead of the FOP32 and the Duron 650 instead of 800, cost me almost exactly what the 900 T-Bird SlotA(mobo, CPU and cooler) would have and this way I can drop in a Palomino and NV20 in a few months🙂). What did you use to unlock your Duron? I was reading about Loctite rear window defroster(defogger for you southerners😉) repair kit working well.
If he had the $200 to spend I would agree with you, but he is working on store credit in a B&M, no way he's going to be able to float the upgrade you suggested. Without ditching the V5, he doesn't have any cash.
With those constraints, I would say either a Radeon 32MB DDR or GTS would be his best bet. The games he mentioned he was looking at almost all run quite a bit better on a GTS or Radeon then on a V5, particularly with a Celery.
BTW- The T-Bird 900 I had on order failed to go through(@ss holes took my money and said they would send it out priority, finally got them to respond to email two weeks later saying they didn't have any:|:|:|:|), so I am getting a setup almost identical to yours(though I went with the Chrome Orb instead of the FOP32 and the Duron 650 instead of 800, cost me almost exactly what the 900 T-Bird SlotA(mobo, CPU and cooler) would have and this way I can drop in a Palomino and NV20 in a few months🙂). What did you use to unlock your Duron? I was reading about Loctite rear window defroster(defogger for you southerners😉) repair kit working well.
Yep, defrogger kit works great. Used a toothpick to apply. If you screw up, easily removes with rubbing alcohol, so you can start over.
Unmodified Duron as shipped
Bridges jumped with defroster liquid kit
Unmodified Duron as shipped
Bridges jumped with defroster liquid kit
Ben:
If he had the $200 to spend I would agree with you, but he is working on store credit in a B&M, no way he's going to be able to float the upgrade you suggested. Without ditching the V5, he doesn't have any cash.
???
what is a "B&M"?
With those constraints, I would say either a Radeon 32MB DDR or GTS would be his best bet. The games he mentioned he was looking at almost all run quite a bit better on a GTS or Radeon then on a V5, particularly with a Celery.
agreed
BTW- The T-Bird 900 I had on order failed to go through(@ss holes took my money and said they would send it out priority, finally got them to respond to email two weeks later saying they didn't have any),
THE BASTAGES!!! who did that? did you rip them in half on bizrate, Better Business Bureau and resellerratings.com ?
What did you use to unlock your Duron? I was reading about Loctite rear window defroster(defogger for you southerners) repair kit working well.
yup. works like a charm. 🙂 check RobsTVs links. They're quite good, although the toothpick seems a bit messy. 🙂
If he had the $200 to spend I would agree with you, but he is working on store credit in a B&M, no way he's going to be able to float the upgrade you suggested. Without ditching the V5, he doesn't have any cash.
???
what is a "B&M"?
With those constraints, I would say either a Radeon 32MB DDR or GTS would be his best bet. The games he mentioned he was looking at almost all run quite a bit better on a GTS or Radeon then on a V5, particularly with a Celery.
agreed
BTW- The T-Bird 900 I had on order failed to go through(@ss holes took my money and said they would send it out priority, finally got them to respond to email two weeks later saying they didn't have any),
THE BASTAGES!!! who did that? did you rip them in half on bizrate, Better Business Bureau and resellerratings.com ?
What did you use to unlock your Duron? I was reading about Loctite rear window defroster(defogger for you southerners) repair kit working well.
yup. works like a charm. 🙂 check RobsTVs links. They're quite good, although the toothpick seems a bit messy. 🙂
Jethro Bodine
Member
Holy Crap!!!!!
DaveB3d recommending an nVidia card!!!!!!
My eyes! My eyes! It burns!
(chuckle)
I'd agree with you normally on the nv20 nod, but doesn't rumour have it they'll cost about as much as this guys whole system?
DaveB3d recommending an nVidia card!!!!!!
My eyes! My eyes! It burns!
(chuckle)
I'd agree with you normally on the nv20 nod, but doesn't rumour have it they'll cost about as much as this guys whole system?
Well this has been spirited 🙂
I appreciated all the advice. I ended up returning the Voodoo to Best Buy (A Brick and Mortar store.) I changed my mind and got a Radeon 64MB DDR. I am planning on upgrading the CPU soon and putting the Celeron into my second computer, which is just a mess of parts right now. There was a $30 Rebate on the card, and I got a $199 credit on the V5, so I will end up paying out of pocket a little less than $200 for the card. Not too bad for a B&M return. Thanks for all the advice, and I will let you know how it goes with the new card
Edit:
Had to change my sig 😉
I appreciated all the advice. I ended up returning the Voodoo to Best Buy (A Brick and Mortar store.) I changed my mind and got a Radeon 64MB DDR. I am planning on upgrading the CPU soon and putting the Celeron into my second computer, which is just a mess of parts right now. There was a $30 Rebate on the card, and I got a $199 credit on the V5, so I will end up paying out of pocket a little less than $200 for the card. Not too bad for a B&M return. Thanks for all the advice, and I will let you know how it goes with the new card
Edit:
Had to change my sig 😉
SuperGroove
Diamond Member
Jethro said:
<< The one unique feature the V5 has (TBuffer effects) has been totally ignored by the programming community >>
It's because programmers don't have to do ANYTHING when it comes to FSAA. That's how well executed the V5 5500 was. Compatibility with EVERYTHING.
<< Holy Crap!!!!!
DaveB3d recommending an nVidia card!!!!!!
My eyes! My eyes! It burns! >>
And lay off...DaveB3D has always given his honest opinion. So he tells the dude to wait for NV20, that just further proves that he always gives his honest 2 cents.
<< The one unique feature the V5 has (TBuffer effects) has been totally ignored by the programming community >>
It's because programmers don't have to do ANYTHING when it comes to FSAA. That's how well executed the V5 5500 was. Compatibility with EVERYTHING.
<< Holy Crap!!!!!
DaveB3d recommending an nVidia card!!!!!!
My eyes! My eyes! It burns! >>
And lay off...DaveB3D has always given his honest opinion. So he tells the dude to wait for NV20, that just further proves that he always gives his honest 2 cents.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Robo:
"The 5500 is $60 cheaper than a Radeon64MB. Compare by price. The 5500, GTS32 and Radeon 32 should be compared."
Disagree. The V5 cost $300 when it came out, and has only become bargain basement due to bankruptcy. It was/is 3dfx's 64MB "flagship" card, should be compared to ATI's 64MB flagship card. The 32 has been pretty cheap almost from the start.
"in your comparison of UT, you're ignoring glide, which is a major mistake when talking about UT."
Actually, I saw a review (Reactor Critical?) that used Glide for UT and the GTS was STILL faster.
"Dot3 and anisotropic are quite nice on the Radeon, shame their FSAA sucks such royal donkey balls"
Oh no! Bad FSAA?! If that mattered, 3dfx would be in business today. No one but V5 owners cares. The poster, as a FPS gamer, FOR SURE doesn't, because he's not going to butcher his framerates to clean up some jaggies. Slow=Dead, and don't even try to tell me any decent res/color depth/fsaa is "plenty fast"- I've seen way to many FSAA benchmarks.
BTW- you left out a TON of RAdeon features- keyframe interpolation, EBM, vertex skinning, 4 vertice T/L, etc..
"They look good,and are a sure fire way to cure insomnia."
Doesn't matter, this is the way of ALL upcoming games, not just these two.
"The Radeon's playback far outclasses the 5500, no doubt. The image quality is better in some cases, worse in others."
Agreed.
"Unfortunately, as newer games come out, there might be compatibility issues (tho 3dfx isn't known for this), so who knows.'
Agreed.
" but don't fool yourself into thinking it's more "future proof"."
It IS more future proof, because it has more of the features on the games that are coming out now and in the near future.
"Are you going to be able to enable Dot3 then?"
Personally, I'll have a Radeon 2 or nv20. You say 60fps with distaste, how many games do you play in 4X FSAA at 60 fps that are newer than Doom?
"Sacrifice and Evolva are non-issues."
Why, because Scott Sellers says so? They are new games where it makes a difference, whether you like them is immaterial.
"I'll tell them both sides."
This guy only asked how to up his frames in fps, and from the sound of things, doesn't have as deep of pockets as you Robo. It might be a big deal for him to have to eat $200 on his V5. I agree with you on everything else in that paragraph.
"How fast do you think UT or Need For Speed or any flight sim plays on a Celeron 700, regardless of the video card? Get real."
He didn't say anything about SIMs, he said FPS games.
"Once you hit the 900+ range on a 5500, the damn thing just FLIES...."
Well, not compared to a Radeon 64 or GTS pro/Ultra. It's a LOT slower than either at a lot of benchmarks, even on a 1 GHz cpu.
"Why keep a POS CPU and upgrade the video card when he can dump the CPU and get something worthwhile?"
Mostly because he can keep his Celery 700, get a GeForce2 in trade in at B&M, and run his fps games faster than guys with 1GHz cpus and V5s.
(I'll post links here if you like)
No money out of pocket, no tedious motherboard swap, etc..
Robo, you are obviously a knowledgeable guy, and seem to be a "good joe". I think we're going to have to agree to disagee on this one. If he can get full store credit for that V5, I say,"Back away from the V5. Be very afraid of the V5."
I buy 7-8 vid cards a year, if you told me to play with the V5 till I buy my next, I might agree. This guy stands to lose his investment, and doesn't seem to have a lot of spare cash.
"The 5500 is $60 cheaper than a Radeon64MB. Compare by price. The 5500, GTS32 and Radeon 32 should be compared."
Disagree. The V5 cost $300 when it came out, and has only become bargain basement due to bankruptcy. It was/is 3dfx's 64MB "flagship" card, should be compared to ATI's 64MB flagship card. The 32 has been pretty cheap almost from the start.
"in your comparison of UT, you're ignoring glide, which is a major mistake when talking about UT."
Actually, I saw a review (Reactor Critical?) that used Glide for UT and the GTS was STILL faster.
"Dot3 and anisotropic are quite nice on the Radeon, shame their FSAA sucks such royal donkey balls"
Oh no! Bad FSAA?! If that mattered, 3dfx would be in business today. No one but V5 owners cares. The poster, as a FPS gamer, FOR SURE doesn't, because he's not going to butcher his framerates to clean up some jaggies. Slow=Dead, and don't even try to tell me any decent res/color depth/fsaa is "plenty fast"- I've seen way to many FSAA benchmarks.
BTW- you left out a TON of RAdeon features- keyframe interpolation, EBM, vertex skinning, 4 vertice T/L, etc..
"They look good,and are a sure fire way to cure insomnia."
Doesn't matter, this is the way of ALL upcoming games, not just these two.
"The Radeon's playback far outclasses the 5500, no doubt. The image quality is better in some cases, worse in others."
Agreed.
"Unfortunately, as newer games come out, there might be compatibility issues (tho 3dfx isn't known for this), so who knows.'
Agreed.
" but don't fool yourself into thinking it's more "future proof"."
It IS more future proof, because it has more of the features on the games that are coming out now and in the near future.
"Are you going to be able to enable Dot3 then?"
Personally, I'll have a Radeon 2 or nv20. You say 60fps with distaste, how many games do you play in 4X FSAA at 60 fps that are newer than Doom?
"Sacrifice and Evolva are non-issues."
Why, because Scott Sellers says so? They are new games where it makes a difference, whether you like them is immaterial.
"I'll tell them both sides."
This guy only asked how to up his frames in fps, and from the sound of things, doesn't have as deep of pockets as you Robo. It might be a big deal for him to have to eat $200 on his V5. I agree with you on everything else in that paragraph.
"How fast do you think UT or Need For Speed or any flight sim plays on a Celeron 700, regardless of the video card? Get real."
He didn't say anything about SIMs, he said FPS games.
"Once you hit the 900+ range on a 5500, the damn thing just FLIES...."
Well, not compared to a Radeon 64 or GTS pro/Ultra. It's a LOT slower than either at a lot of benchmarks, even on a 1 GHz cpu.
"Why keep a POS CPU and upgrade the video card when he can dump the CPU and get something worthwhile?"
Mostly because he can keep his Celery 700, get a GeForce2 in trade in at B&M, and run his fps games faster than guys with 1GHz cpus and V5s.
(I'll post links here if you like)
No money out of pocket, no tedious motherboard swap, etc..
Robo, you are obviously a knowledgeable guy, and seem to be a "good joe". I think we're going to have to agree to disagee on this one. If he can get full store credit for that V5, I say,"Back away from the V5. Be very afraid of the V5."
I buy 7-8 vid cards a year, if you told me to play with the V5 till I buy my next, I might agree. This guy stands to lose his investment, and doesn't seem to have a lot of spare cash.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I wasn't talking about FSAA, the one saving grace of the V5. I was talking about motion blur, soft shadows, etc..
I have nothing but respect for DaveB3d and his site. Just making a small joke about something I never thought I'd see. Dave knows me as Fred Sanford from the late, great, 3dfxGamers, and hopefully knows my tongue is often in cheek.
I have nothing but respect for DaveB3d and his site. Just making a small joke about something I never thought I'd see. Dave knows me as Fred Sanford from the late, great, 3dfxGamers, and hopefully knows my tongue is often in cheek.
BTW, back to the subject....After reading this post, I installed UT and the latest official patch. With a bit of tweaking, and I'm going to do more, I'm getting between 65 and 88fps depending on the map. 800X600 with 2X FSAA. Everything in the game turned up includeing 3D sound.
V5 5500 Latest drivers, not BETA!
PIII 700@933
512mb PC133
CUSL2
SB Live
V5 5500 Latest drivers, not BETA!
PIII 700@933
512mb PC133
CUSL2
SB Live
Jethro:
"The 5500 is $60 cheaper than a Radeon64MB. Compare by price. The 5500, GTS32 and Radeon 32 should be compared."
Disagree. The V5 cost $300 when it came out,
disagree. The Radeon 64MB cost $400 when it came out.
as far as bankruptcy is concerned, the 5500 was lowered initially to compete with the GTS 32MB price drops, but that's neither here nor there.
Actually, I saw a review (Reactor Critical?) that used Glide for UT and the GTS was STILL faster.
the settings don't default to the same. All I can say is that with a 64MB GTS @ 200/400 and my P3 @ 1012, it was slower @ 1024 and 1280 than the 5500 is in glide, @ 183/183, P3 @ 966
that when the settings are equalized. D3d and OGL both use low detail textures and disable volumetric lighting. Glide enables them.
Oh no! Bad FSAA?! If that mattered, 3dfx would be in business today
not hardly. They would've needed some OEM support (as well as a bunch of other stuff, like competent marketing and a decent CEO) for that to happen.
No one but V5 owners cares.
prolly cause we're the only ones with decent FSAA. Kinda makes sense, doesn't it? You think Intel owners care about the price of VCRAM?
BTW- you left out a TON of RAdeon features- keyframe interpolation, EBM, vertex skinning, 4 vertice T/L, etc
silly me. Remind me how many games support those?
"They look good,and are a sure fire way to cure insomnia."
Doesn't matter, this is the way of ALL upcoming games, not just these two.
which part, the "look good" or the "cure insomnia" part? 😀
"Are you going to be able to enable Dot3 then?"
Personally, I'll have a Radeon 2 or nv20.
me2
You say 60fps with distaste, how many games do you play in 4X FSAA at 60 fps that are newer than Doom?
well, here's the list of games I've played relatively recently that I use 4xFSAA (i.e. I've experimented and found that 4xFSAA looks best and plays smoothly without hiccups/stutters). I honestly don't know what the framerate is on many of them because framerates aren't listed.
NFS-Porsche
NFS-IV
NFS-III
Revolt (wotta blast!! this is a new one I'm trying, hehe....highly recommended)
Viper GT Racing
Superbike2000 (waiting for 2001 to drop to $30)
MBTR demo (800x600, this game is brutal, but REALLY needs FSAA)
Dirt Track Racing Sprint Cars ('nother blast!)
NASCAR Heat
NASCAR Racing 3
NASCAR Legends
Carmageddon2
CarmageddonTDR
Interstate 82
Mechwarrior3 (waiting for 4 to drop to $30)
Half Life
Counterstrike (looks awesome)
Swat3
Motocross Madness 1&2
Monster Truck Madness 1&2
Descent 2&3
Combat Flight Simulator
NHL2000 (Waiting for 2001 to drop to $30)
Madden2000 (2001 for $30 again)
System Shock 2
Slave Zero
Episode 1 - Pod Racer
X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter (CLASSIC!!!)
anyway, I'm sick of listing them. Basically, EVERY game out there that isn't an FPS, and even most of the FPS games prior to 1999, are quite playable with the 5500 @ 4xFSAA. In some games, such as Quake1 and Quake2, I choose higher resolutions over FSAA, but FSAA is still more than fast enough and looks great.
and that doesn't even count FSAAx2, which on a 5500 looks great and is very fast (800x600x32 @ 80ish fps w/2xFSAA)
"Sacrifice and Evolva are non-issues."
Why, because Scott Sellers says so?
no, because I say so. Remember, my attitude is "when a game makes me want to upgrade"
Those 2 games make me want to take a nap. The Dot3 looks PHENOMINAL tho.
This guy only asked how to up his frames in fps, and from the sound of things, doesn't have as deep of pockets as you Robo.
that is my bust entirely. I didn't realize he was going to "trade it in". I thought he was looking for a way to spend $200 effectively.
"Once you hit the 900+ range on a 5500, the damn thing just FLIES...."
Well, not compared to a Radeon 64 or GTS pro/Ultra. It's a LOT slower than either at a lot of benchmarks, even on a 1 GHz cpu.
GTS Pro - $350
GTS Ultra - $450
Radeon 64 - $250
V5-5500 - $175
If all he's going to do is play fps, then a GTS would be the "best" choice. Of course, this is almost a moot point, as he has selected the 64MB Radeon (Good choice) after getting some nice in-store credit.
But why compare a card (5500) to 2 cards (GTS Pro/Ultra) which are more than twice his budget?
"Why keep a POS CPU and upgrade the video card when he can dump the CPU and get something worthwhile?"
Mostly because he can keep his Celery 700, get a GeForce2 in trade in at B&M, and run his fps games faster than guys with 1GHz cpus and V5s.
Again, I missed the "trade-in" part. I was thinking he could get either a video card or a CPU. My bust. As far as tedious motherboard installs are concerned, I guess it depends on how often you do it. <g>
As far as the benchmarks are concerned, I'd be very interested to see a Celeron-700 + GTS outperform a 5500 + 1-Gig on anything other than 3dMark2000
Robo, you are obviously a knowledgeable guy, and seem to be a "good joe".
<blushes> 😱
I think we're going to have to agree to disagee on this one. If he can get full store credit for that V5, I say,"Back away from the V5. Be very afraid of the V5."
heh...well, since he can't get a CPU, then I'll agree. Again, I was thinking he was looking to plunk $200 down, and he wanted to know
I buy 7-8 vid cards a year, if you told me to play with the V5 till I buy my next, I might agree. This guy stands to lose his investment, and doesn't seem to have a lot of spare cash.
No, I see your point. My fault for reading things a bit incorrectly.
Nice discussion, BTW. 🙂
"The 5500 is $60 cheaper than a Radeon64MB. Compare by price. The 5500, GTS32 and Radeon 32 should be compared."
Disagree. The V5 cost $300 when it came out,
disagree. The Radeon 64MB cost $400 when it came out.
as far as bankruptcy is concerned, the 5500 was lowered initially to compete with the GTS 32MB price drops, but that's neither here nor there.
Actually, I saw a review (Reactor Critical?) that used Glide for UT and the GTS was STILL faster.
the settings don't default to the same. All I can say is that with a 64MB GTS @ 200/400 and my P3 @ 1012, it was slower @ 1024 and 1280 than the 5500 is in glide, @ 183/183, P3 @ 966
that when the settings are equalized. D3d and OGL both use low detail textures and disable volumetric lighting. Glide enables them.
Oh no! Bad FSAA?! If that mattered, 3dfx would be in business today
not hardly. They would've needed some OEM support (as well as a bunch of other stuff, like competent marketing and a decent CEO) for that to happen.
No one but V5 owners cares.
prolly cause we're the only ones with decent FSAA. Kinda makes sense, doesn't it? You think Intel owners care about the price of VCRAM?
BTW- you left out a TON of RAdeon features- keyframe interpolation, EBM, vertex skinning, 4 vertice T/L, etc
silly me. Remind me how many games support those?
"They look good,and are a sure fire way to cure insomnia."
Doesn't matter, this is the way of ALL upcoming games, not just these two.
which part, the "look good" or the "cure insomnia" part? 😀
"Are you going to be able to enable Dot3 then?"
Personally, I'll have a Radeon 2 or nv20.
me2
You say 60fps with distaste, how many games do you play in 4X FSAA at 60 fps that are newer than Doom?
well, here's the list of games I've played relatively recently that I use 4xFSAA (i.e. I've experimented and found that 4xFSAA looks best and plays smoothly without hiccups/stutters). I honestly don't know what the framerate is on many of them because framerates aren't listed.
NFS-Porsche
NFS-IV
NFS-III
Revolt (wotta blast!! this is a new one I'm trying, hehe....highly recommended)
Viper GT Racing
Superbike2000 (waiting for 2001 to drop to $30)
MBTR demo (800x600, this game is brutal, but REALLY needs FSAA)
Dirt Track Racing Sprint Cars ('nother blast!)
NASCAR Heat
NASCAR Racing 3
NASCAR Legends
Carmageddon2
CarmageddonTDR
Interstate 82
Mechwarrior3 (waiting for 4 to drop to $30)
Half Life
Counterstrike (looks awesome)
Swat3
Motocross Madness 1&2
Monster Truck Madness 1&2
Descent 2&3
Combat Flight Simulator
NHL2000 (Waiting for 2001 to drop to $30)
Madden2000 (2001 for $30 again)
System Shock 2
Slave Zero
Episode 1 - Pod Racer
X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter (CLASSIC!!!)
anyway, I'm sick of listing them. Basically, EVERY game out there that isn't an FPS, and even most of the FPS games prior to 1999, are quite playable with the 5500 @ 4xFSAA. In some games, such as Quake1 and Quake2, I choose higher resolutions over FSAA, but FSAA is still more than fast enough and looks great.
and that doesn't even count FSAAx2, which on a 5500 looks great and is very fast (800x600x32 @ 80ish fps w/2xFSAA)
"Sacrifice and Evolva are non-issues."
Why, because Scott Sellers says so?
no, because I say so. Remember, my attitude is "when a game makes me want to upgrade"
Those 2 games make me want to take a nap. The Dot3 looks PHENOMINAL tho.
This guy only asked how to up his frames in fps, and from the sound of things, doesn't have as deep of pockets as you Robo.
that is my bust entirely. I didn't realize he was going to "trade it in". I thought he was looking for a way to spend $200 effectively.
"Once you hit the 900+ range on a 5500, the damn thing just FLIES...."
Well, not compared to a Radeon 64 or GTS pro/Ultra. It's a LOT slower than either at a lot of benchmarks, even on a 1 GHz cpu.
GTS Pro - $350
GTS Ultra - $450
Radeon 64 - $250
V5-5500 - $175
If all he's going to do is play fps, then a GTS would be the "best" choice. Of course, this is almost a moot point, as he has selected the 64MB Radeon (Good choice) after getting some nice in-store credit.
But why compare a card (5500) to 2 cards (GTS Pro/Ultra) which are more than twice his budget?
"Why keep a POS CPU and upgrade the video card when he can dump the CPU and get something worthwhile?"
Mostly because he can keep his Celery 700, get a GeForce2 in trade in at B&M, and run his fps games faster than guys with 1GHz cpus and V5s.
Again, I missed the "trade-in" part. I was thinking he could get either a video card or a CPU. My bust. As far as tedious motherboard installs are concerned, I guess it depends on how often you do it. <g>
As far as the benchmarks are concerned, I'd be very interested to see a Celeron-700 + GTS outperform a 5500 + 1-Gig on anything other than 3dMark2000
Robo, you are obviously a knowledgeable guy, and seem to be a "good joe".
<blushes> 😱
I think we're going to have to agree to disagee on this one. If he can get full store credit for that V5, I say,"Back away from the V5. Be very afraid of the V5."
heh...well, since he can't get a CPU, then I'll agree. Again, I was thinking he was looking to plunk $200 down, and he wanted to know
I buy 7-8 vid cards a year, if you told me to play with the V5 till I buy my next, I might agree. This guy stands to lose his investment, and doesn't seem to have a lot of spare cash.
No, I see your point. My fault for reading things a bit incorrectly.
Nice discussion, BTW. 🙂
Jethro Bodine
Member
Robo:
"silly me. Remind me how many games support those?"
The only point I was making there is it's better to have them than not, so when a game does come out that supports them you can use it.
Also, it's better to buy cards with as yet unsupported features so developers code for those features. I honestly don't think Q3 would have had 512X512 textures if ATI/nvidia/S3 hadn't made this the standard 2 years ago.
"They would've needed some OEM support"
Agreed. (With caveat that I think if they would've released the V5 last December and made more of an impact on the retail market, they may have survived.)
"Basically, EVERY game out there that isn't an FPS,"
I only play FPS, online, so the point is moot for me. (agree that FSAA is fine for single player, although I suspact you're playing at 8X6X16 if you're doing 4X)
"As far as the benchmarks are concerned, I'd be very interested to see a Celeron-700 + GTS outperform a 5500 + 1-Gig on anything other than
3dMark2000"
We're probably going to need to use multiple reviews here, but I'll try:
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/q3videoroundup3/page5.asp
P3-1GHz/V5/Q3 HiQ 10X7 (9/9/00) 66fps
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/prophet264mb/page7.asp
Celeron 450/GTS 32MB/Q3 HiQ 10X7 (06/23/00) 65.5 fps
This is pathetic. When a Celeron 450/GTS can tie a 1GHz P3/V5 combo, a person can see why 3dfx never got their OEM support.
http://www.reactorcritical.com/review-battletitans/review-battletitans_6.shtml
"the victory for Voodoo5 in the Unreal Tournament is secured not by Glide. The difference here between Glide and Direct3D is less than 1 fps."
http://www.reactorcritical.com/review-voodoo5/review-voodoo5_9.shtml
Hmmm, must be the high res/32 bit Radeon wins I was remembering when I posted that "V5 even gets beat in Glide at UT" stuff.
http://www.reactorcritical.com/review-voodoo5/review-voodoo5_8.shtml
Sheesh, look how a V5 gets the proverbial "mudhole stomped in it's ass" at MDK2.
I guess to sum my opinion on this issue I would say:
Q3/MDK2 are more indicative of 2001 gaming performance than games like UT/Halflife/NFS, IMHO.
UT is based on the ancient Unreal engine. Halflife is based on the ancient Q1 engine. NFS ????
Q3/MDK2 incorporate larger textures, volumetric fog, T/L, curved surfaces, etc..
"Nice discussion, BTW."
Agreed. Always a pleasure to discuss the cards with someone who's above the "nVidia suxors! V5 rox!" post, and doesn't resort to name calling/expletives to "make their point"
So, have I convinced you to "go Radeon"? ;-)
"silly me. Remind me how many games support those?"
The only point I was making there is it's better to have them than not, so when a game does come out that supports them you can use it.
Also, it's better to buy cards with as yet unsupported features so developers code for those features. I honestly don't think Q3 would have had 512X512 textures if ATI/nvidia/S3 hadn't made this the standard 2 years ago.
"They would've needed some OEM support"
Agreed. (With caveat that I think if they would've released the V5 last December and made more of an impact on the retail market, they may have survived.)
"Basically, EVERY game out there that isn't an FPS,"
I only play FPS, online, so the point is moot for me. (agree that FSAA is fine for single player, although I suspact you're playing at 8X6X16 if you're doing 4X)
"As far as the benchmarks are concerned, I'd be very interested to see a Celeron-700 + GTS outperform a 5500 + 1-Gig on anything other than
3dMark2000"
We're probably going to need to use multiple reviews here, but I'll try:
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/q3videoroundup3/page5.asp
P3-1GHz/V5/Q3 HiQ 10X7 (9/9/00) 66fps
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/prophet264mb/page7.asp
Celeron 450/GTS 32MB/Q3 HiQ 10X7 (06/23/00) 65.5 fps
This is pathetic. When a Celeron 450/GTS can tie a 1GHz P3/V5 combo, a person can see why 3dfx never got their OEM support.
http://www.reactorcritical.com/review-battletitans/review-battletitans_6.shtml
"the victory for Voodoo5 in the Unreal Tournament is secured not by Glide. The difference here between Glide and Direct3D is less than 1 fps."
http://www.reactorcritical.com/review-voodoo5/review-voodoo5_9.shtml
Hmmm, must be the high res/32 bit Radeon wins I was remembering when I posted that "V5 even gets beat in Glide at UT" stuff.
http://www.reactorcritical.com/review-voodoo5/review-voodoo5_8.shtml
Sheesh, look how a V5 gets the proverbial "mudhole stomped in it's ass" at MDK2.
I guess to sum my opinion on this issue I would say:
Q3/MDK2 are more indicative of 2001 gaming performance than games like UT/Halflife/NFS, IMHO.
UT is based on the ancient Unreal engine. Halflife is based on the ancient Q1 engine. NFS ????
Q3/MDK2 incorporate larger textures, volumetric fog, T/L, curved surfaces, etc..
"Nice discussion, BTW."
Agreed. Always a pleasure to discuss the cards with someone who's above the "nVidia suxors! V5 rox!" post, and doesn't resort to name calling/expletives to "make their point"
So, have I convinced you to "go Radeon"? ;-)
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
Draven-
How do you like your new Radeon??????????
You are leavin us hangin bud, tell us what you think😀
Robo-
"THE BASTAGES!!! who did that? did you rip them in half on bizrate, Better Business Bureau and resellerratings.com ?"
No, it was on e*ay. It is a business, from what I can figure they are selling items they don't have in stock and then filling them through other distributorships after the auctions close. The reason I went to e*ay was because I couldn't find a SlotA TBird in stock anywhere else. Even places that listed them on line, when you called they didn't actualy have them, they were expecting them soon(an out of stock discontinued product...).
I ended up telling them that I would file a fraud complaint with e*ay, my CC company and PayPal if I didn't have an immediate refund(took less then an hour after I sent that email).
Ended up being better though. I checked around quite a bit on the Duron 650 and hitting 850-900 seems to be the norm rather then the exception with a decent cooler(went with the Chrome Orb as it was only $5 more then stock OEM heatsink and pretty d@mn near equal with the FOP32 and I'm not too worried about a GHZ, though of course I will try😉). Add to that I'm using a no side band Irongate K7M(AGP 1X with my DDR:|) and I would need a mobo upgrade anyway within a couple of months for the NV20(anyone who thinks it sounds odd for me to go through the trouble of upgrading my entire system around a video card doesn't know me😉).
Going with the 900 SlotA T-Bird I upgrade my CPU, this way I bump my systems down and have an Athlon 550 as second tier, a lot better for rendering or gaming then the PII 266 or K62 400 I have occupying that spot now(in terms of FPU they are about equal, the PII seems to have an edge in rendering though they are both too slow for me to time😉). Still ended up running about $200 bucks total(good deal on all the parts, particularly the KT7Pro2A- thanks John🙂).
Hmmmm, meant for this to be a couple of lines tops, told the wife I'd only be a minute😱 Gotta get ready for a little storm we got comin this way😀
How do you like your new Radeon??????????
You are leavin us hangin bud, tell us what you think😀
Robo-
"THE BASTAGES!!! who did that? did you rip them in half on bizrate, Better Business Bureau and resellerratings.com ?"
No, it was on e*ay. It is a business, from what I can figure they are selling items they don't have in stock and then filling them through other distributorships after the auctions close. The reason I went to e*ay was because I couldn't find a SlotA TBird in stock anywhere else. Even places that listed them on line, when you called they didn't actualy have them, they were expecting them soon(an out of stock discontinued product...).
I ended up telling them that I would file a fraud complaint with e*ay, my CC company and PayPal if I didn't have an immediate refund(took less then an hour after I sent that email).
Ended up being better though. I checked around quite a bit on the Duron 650 and hitting 850-900 seems to be the norm rather then the exception with a decent cooler(went with the Chrome Orb as it was only $5 more then stock OEM heatsink and pretty d@mn near equal with the FOP32 and I'm not too worried about a GHZ, though of course I will try😉). Add to that I'm using a no side band Irongate K7M(AGP 1X with my DDR:|) and I would need a mobo upgrade anyway within a couple of months for the NV20(anyone who thinks it sounds odd for me to go through the trouble of upgrading my entire system around a video card doesn't know me😉).
Going with the 900 SlotA T-Bird I upgrade my CPU, this way I bump my systems down and have an Athlon 550 as second tier, a lot better for rendering or gaming then the PII 266 or K62 400 I have occupying that spot now(in terms of FPU they are about equal, the PII seems to have an edge in rendering though they are both too slow for me to time😉). Still ended up running about $200 bucks total(good deal on all the parts, particularly the KT7Pro2A- thanks John🙂).
Hmmmm, meant for this to be a couple of lines tops, told the wife I'd only be a minute😱 Gotta get ready for a little storm we got comin this way😀
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