Volt gets official EPA mileage rating(s)

[RavenSEAL]

With the 41K the volt cost, i can get a semi-20k car and have around 13 years worth of gas(@ current prices).

So unless they somehow manage to drop the pricetag a good 10K, i really don't care, same with a crap load of other people.

 

[alphatarget1]

Careful with those blanket statements.

The Prius can easily average 55 mpg long distance and I regularly get 70 mpg+ with my 2000 Insight at normal highway speeds. That is over 700 miles on a 10 gallon tank, and well over 800 miles if I slow down a little.

Now you might say the volt or similar plugin hybrids or EVs don't make sense for long trips.

The Prius averages 55mpg not because of the hybrid system, but because it has a really small gasoline motor.

 

[Bignate603]

The Prius averages 55mpg not because of the hybrid system, but because it has a really small gasoline motor.

You can only get away with having a really small gas engine because of the hybrid drive system. If the prius didn't have the electric system to help out the acceleration from that tiny little engine would be so ridiculously terrible that no one would want the car.

 

[LTC8K6]

The Prius averages 55mpg not because of the hybrid system, but because it has a really small gasoline motor.

The Prius seems to have a larger and more powerful engine than the Volt, though. :biggrin:

 

[PricklyPete]

The Prius seems to have a larger and more powerful engine than the Volt, though. :biggrin:

It has a bigger gas motor...but every review I have read says the Volt is much more responsive and faster to 60 due to its electric engine.

 

[LTC8K6]

It has a bigger gas motor...but every review I have read says the Volt is much more responsive and faster to 60 due to its electric engine.

Sure, but the Prius cannot be getting good gas mileage because it has a tiny engine, as claimed in a couple posts, because it doesn't actually have a tiny engine... :biggrin:

 

[Gillbot]

You can only get away with having a really small gas engine because of the hybrid drive system. If the prius didn't have the electric system to help out the acceleration from that tiny little engine would be so ridiculously terrible that no one would want the car.

Tell that to everyone that bought the Geo Metro and the many other underwhelming "tin can" cars. They were bought because they were cheap and fuel efficient. With all the concentration on electrics, I think many have lost sight that you CAN make a fuel efficient small car, you just need to produce it cheap enough to entice people into buying it.

Instead, everyone gobbled up SUV's and now we are paying for it.

 

[Bignate603]

Tell that to everyone that bought the Geo Metro and the many other underwhelming "tin can" cars. They were bought because they were cheap and fuel efficient. With all the concentration on electrics, I think many have lost sight that you CAN make a fuel efficient small car, you just need to produce it cheap enough to entice people into buying it.

Instead, everyone gobbled up SUV's and now we are paying for it.

You're comparing a tiny cramped bottom of the barrel car with questionable safety (no airbags, no ABS, etc) that might not be able to get up to speed on an onramp with a much larger, more comfortable car that gets better gas mileage and does everything that your average person needs in a daily driver.

 

[Gillbot]

You're comparing a tiny cramped bottom of the barrel car with questionable safety (no airbags, no ABS, etc) that might not be able to get up to speed on an onramp with a much larger, more comfortable car that gets better gas mileage and does everything that your average person needs in a daily driver.

Purely opinion. I don't need a hybrid drive system in a daily driver, nor do I need NAV or plush accommodations for a BASIC fuel efficient car. I appreciate the discussion, but you are spouting opinion and not FACT.

 

[Arkaign]

^^ I think for basic non-hybrid fuel efficient cars, we're not going to do better than stuff like the new Fiesta with current safety regulations. Those old Geos, CRXs, Aspires, etc, would not come close to passing current safety regulations. Sure you could throw out probably ~150lbs of crap to get some slight improvements, but it's not gonna make up the huge difference the weight makes.

http://beta.edmunds.com/ford/aspire/1997/

"The Aspire is available in three- or five-door hatchback body styles, in a single trim level. A torquey 63-horsepower engine motivates the Aspire, but the optional automatic transmission effectively severs what little power it is able to transmit to the front wheels. We have received considerable mail from people who have rented the Aspire when on budget vacations or cheap business trips who were horrified to discover that the car was unable to maintain freeway speeds when confronted with the most innocuous of inclines."

lol. And the thing weighed ~2000lbs soaking wet. Fuel economy wasn't even that impressive when you consider the specs :

http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Fuel/1997/Ford/Aspire

Revised 5-speed fuel economy : 29/38. If I'm going to ride a shopping cart with a weedeater motor, I at least want to see the 40mpg barrier broken. The 3-speed auto gets 24/28, I feel terrible for the folks that got one of those things.

 

[Gillbot]

^^ I think for basic non-hybrid fuel efficient cars, we're not going to do better than stuff like the new Fiesta with current safety regulations. Those old Geos, CRXs, Aspires, etc, would not come close to passing current safety regulations. Sure you could throw out probably ~150lbs of crap to get some slight improvements, but it's not gonna make up the huge difference the weight makes.

http://beta.edmunds.com/ford/aspire/1997/

"The Aspire is available in three- or five-door hatchback body styles, in a single trim level. A torquey 63-horsepower engine motivates the Aspire, but the optional automatic transmission effectively severs what little power it is able to transmit to the front wheels. We have received considerable mail from people who have rented the Aspire when on budget vacations or cheap business trips who were horrified to discover that the car was unable to maintain freeway speeds when confronted with the most innocuous of inclines."

lol. And the thing weighed ~2000lbs soaking wet. Fuel economy wasn't even that impressive when you consider the specs :

http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Fuel/1997/Ford/Aspire

Revised 5-speed fuel economy : 29/38. If I'm going to ride a shopping cart with a weedeater motor, I at least want to see the 40mpg barrier broken. The 3-speed auto gets 24/28, I feel terrible for the folks that got one of those things.

I don't debate that at all. I'm just saying I have no need for sat nav, cd changers and other "crap" that they package on modern cars in a daily commuter. They need to strip them of all the truly useless creature comforts and get the price and weight down.

 

[Arkaign]

Yeah, I think there is definitely a glaring hole out there for a vehicle like that.

Something basic with just two seats, a rigid frame and airbags, just an am/fm radio/mp3 player and two speakers, a 5-speed and a ~100hp direct injection 1.5l motor, aim for ~2200lbs and 45mpg, sell it for $9k and watch the sales go through the roof. Probably impossible due to labor costs though 🙁 Honestly the base model Versa comes closest to the idea, but at ~2600lbs it's still a bit short of hitting truly great fuel economy.

 

[Gillbot]

Yeah, I think there is definitely a glaring hole out there for a vehicle like that.

Something basic with just two seats, a rigid frame and airbags, just an am/fm radio/mp3 player and two speakers, a 5-speed and a ~100hp direct injection 1.5l motor, aim for ~2200lbs and 45mpg, sell it for $9k and watch the sales go through the roof. Probably impossible due to labor costs though 🙁 Honestly the base model Versa comes closest to the idea, but at ~2600lbs it's still a bit short of hitting truly great fuel economy.

That's why those crappy import tin cans do so well. That's all many people want, a basic car to get from A to B. Honestly, they can skip the AM/FM/MP3 IMHO because most would opt for a better featured aftermarket stereo for much less anyway. The "big 3" need to get with the times and make a tin can like the old cavalier USED to be. just a plain old CHEAP car. Hell, my first Ford Ranger had hand crank windows and an AM/FM radio. That was IT, nice and cheap right off the lot for basic driving and work use!

 

[Monster_Munch]

Don't they sell diesels at all in the US?

You can get a VW polo diesel or a ford fiesta diesel here that gets just as good mpg as a prius for a lot less money.

 

[Arkaign]

Diesel fuel economy calculated by imperial gallons is a bit miseleading when comparing to US EPA fuel economy with smaller US gallons. Add to that the fact that diesel is quite often significantly more expensive and harder to find in some areas of the US (north dallas is like this), and it becomes less sensible pretty quick.

At Frisco, TX at the moment, regular is 2.51, and availlable at any station at varying prices on up from there, but mostly under $2.69 at most.

Diesel is only at two stations in Frisco, and they are 2.95 and 3.19 🙁

So the guy driving the Diesel that needs fuel not only needs to plan to stop at a particular station, but he's gonna pay noticably more for each gallon as well, in this example. In some parts of the country it's not like this though. But I *rarely* see diesel vehicles in this city, probably for this very reason.

Gasbuddy.com

 

[sdifox]

Don't they sell diesels at all in the US?

You can get a VW polo diesel or a ford fiesta diesel here that gets just as good mpg as a prius for a lot less money.

Problem is price point and image of diesel in North America. Seems to be changing a bit so there is hope.

 

[ShawnD1]

I've never understood the push for these hybrid cars myself. MANY of the lightweight econo-boxes get much better mileage overall than the hybrids do and some are fairly close in city also.

Can you give 1 specific example? A Toyota Prius has about as much power as a Yaris, but the Prius is bigger. Prius mileage is 51/48 while the Yaris only gets 29/36.


These hybrids will never be popular where I live. Last week it was -27C (extremely cold), but the wind chill made it feel more like -35C. I was intentionally running my Corolla in a lower gear just so it would be less efficient, burn more gas, and keep the engine warm. When being as efficient as possible, the engine cools down remarkably fast and the heater starts blowing somewhat cold air. I don't even want to know what a Prius does at -30C. Does it try to save gas and keep the engine cold for the entire hour long drive to work?

 

[iversonyin]

That's why those crappy import tin cans do so well. That's all many people want, a basic car to get from A to B. Honestly, they can skip the AM/FM/MP3 IMHO because most would opt for a better featured aftermarket stereo for much less anyway. The "big 3" need to get with the times and make a tin can like the old cavalier USED to be. just a plain old CHEAP car. Hell, my first Ford Ranger had hand crank windows and an AM/FM radio. That was IT, nice and cheap right off the lot for basic driving and work use!

The Focus and the Cruze are pretty good tin cans.

 

[iversonyin]

Can you give 1 specific example? A Toyota Prius has about as much power as a Yaris, but the Prius is bigger. Prius mileage is 51/48 while the Yaris only gets 29/36.

I'm not 100% sure, but if you drive on the highway at ~ 70mph - the mpg diff. would probably come close between a Prius and a Corolla/Civic.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2010/11/big-list-of-fuel-economy-october-2010.html
You can check their fuel usage on their long term Prius. The worst tank often stayed around 30s.

These hybrids excel at stop-and-go traffic. They would probably make an excellent NYC cabs, but really not much of everything else.

 

[Gillbot]

Can you give 1 specific example? A Toyota Prius has about as much power as a Yaris, but the Prius is bigger. Prius mileage is 51/48 while the Yaris only gets 29/36.


These hybrids will never be popular where I live. Last week it was -27C (extremely cold), but the wind chill made it feel more like -35C. I was intentionally running my Corolla in a lower gear just so it would be less efficient, burn more gas, and keep the engine warm. When being as efficient as possible, the engine cools down remarkably fast and the heater starts blowing somewhat cold air. I don't even want to know what a Prius does at -30C. Does it try to save gas and keep the engine cold for the entire hour long drive to work?

If you have to drive in a lower gear and run your car hard to keep it warm, you have a cooling system problem.

I'm also unsure as to what you want an example of? A cheap car? Pick one of the MANY older models such as the Ford Aspire, Ford Festiva (not the new Fiesta), Geo Metro, etc. Many of those got great ACTUAL gas mileage, not sure what they were rated though.

 

[zsdersw]

There's always got to be a first. Of course the first electric cars aren't going to be cost competitive. They're new tech without a large established supplier base. Give it another generation or so before you pass judgement.

This. QFT.

 

[Lotheron]

I'm not doubting that the plants also use huge amounts of fuel or pollute a lot, just that they do it less than cars (comparing energy outputs directly).

This isn't even taking into consideration 100% clean, renewable energy such as solar/wind. The more that these become mainstream, the better electric cars come.

Of course, I also agree battery technology needs to get better to make it much more marketable. The 200 mile range that can be found in the Telsa is what I'm talking about.

 

[Gillbot]

This isn't even taking into consideration 100% clean, renewable energy such as solar/wind. The more that these become mainstream, the better electric cars come.

Of course, I also agree battery technology needs to get better to make it much more marketable. The 200 mile range that can be found in the Telsa is what I'm talking about.

Solar/Wind aren't stable sources though. Weather changes can affect their output. We need more nukes.

 

[Lotheron]

Solar/Wind aren't stable sources though. Weather changes can affect their output. We need more nukes.

No, they aren't viable everywhere, however Solar/Wind are perfectly predictable in the right places. Solar in the desert southwest and Wind in the Texas panhandle for example are two great places to make cheap energy.

I also think nuclear is good too, but it's not completely renewable. Better than coal/gas though 🙂

 

[desy]

Over time electrical generation will become greener, still doesn't solve the battery problem. Diesel requirements flipped and are more stringent now than Europe, so we have to have all those urea systems to get the emissions clean enough. Tax monekys with the price of diesel though its cheaper here.

Put some cardboard in the corolla , you must be in Sask cause you described last week 🙂 My Honda dealer outright told me to for my Civic, horizontal 4 cylinders have a hard time keeping up heat wise.