Originally posted by: Descartes
Originally posted by: zoiks
Originally posted by: Descartes
Originally posted by: QueBert
if you learn how to use a CLI well and can type fast, you will get more done. It shouldn't be that hard to understand. Take a Dos wiz and put him next to a Windows wiz, give them the same 10 tasks to do the Dos wiz should come out ahead in at least 8 of them. Hell even in Windows I show people keyboard shortcuts because doing the majority of shit with a mouse takes longer.
False.
I type over 150wpm, but you're still missing the point really. If you want to do silly things like this:
cat somefile | wc -l > linecount.txt
or maybe...
cat somefile | perl -ne "print if /^ohhithere/;" > ohhitherelines.txt
Then yes, you can't beat it. Your trouble is that you're using helpdesk examples to support your point. If I want to look at my netbios cache, maybe add a route or two, etc. then I'm always going to jump to CLI. But please, show me how I can support
any non-trivial business function through a strict use of CLI tools.
You can get a lot accomplished without using a GUI. I use vi for my text editor and its blazingly fast. Much faster than notepad or a gui text editor.
I was, and still am to some degree, a huge vi and emacs fan. I respectfully disagree though, because I've found UltraEdit to be
far more productive. I can load gigantic files (something Windows editors have a really hard time with), I get a full Perl 5 regex engine and I can do everything I need. I use it all the time for data transformations.
The only real benefit I get from the GUI is a tabbed environment which helps in managing a lot of files at once. I prefer the vi method of being able to s/do/things.
I work with embedded software and firmware companies and we basically use gcc and other command line C/C++ compilers. We use gdb as a debugger for our purposes. Mail can be done via Mutt or Pine without using a GUI.
With that type of work, I can understand such preferences. I used to do quite a lot of embedded work myself, and much of my time was in the CLI at that point. I have a suite of probably about 100 different tools, most I built myself, that allows me to combine | actions | to | get -profound >> /dev/results. I miss the ability to orchestrate solutions at that level sometimes.
You're right that in reality it is more useful to use tools that can facilitate you better in the tasks that you are working on. I use thunderbird exclusively at work. My company is primarily a unix shop so we are more adapted to *nix environments. A lot of the developers use Linux exclusively though they do use a desktop env like KDE or Gnome.
And believe me, I used to be a huge proponent of CLI, Linux, the-right-tool-for-the-right-time, well designed tools that do one thing and one thing well and all that. I lost out to the pace of business though, where users' mistakes well outpace the advancement of technology. I've long ago adopted a strategy of limited visual interaction, giving users very little visual stimulus to drive them through a process. Complex UI, including a complex CLI application with a bunch of potential flags, simply overwhelms users.
Granted, if I had the privilege of working in an embedded environment and got away from the capriciousness of business and the users I might have a different tone
And finally, the wonderful irony of software is that there's a lot of enthusiasm now about SOA. Many treat it like it's something new, as though these ideas just surfaced in the minds of developers. People with *nix backgrounds know better, but that's the way the tides flow.
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