vista

[Q]

ATOT never fails to deliver a nerd fight

 

[ethebubbeth]

Originally posted by: MrPickins
Good luck multitasking in DOS...

But you can background a command in a linux terminal! Oh wait, we are talking about dos here....

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: Leros

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Quebert still rents VHS porn from the video store.

Just wait until you try a DVD or watch one online...youll be amazed at the..umm..."hairstyle" these days.

And buys vinyl from a record shop

Vinyl sounds better than CD's, I think the Vinyl comparison you used doesn't work, DOS is outdated and doesn't have support. Mostly all new albums still come out on Vinyl. For DJ's and people who prefer better SQ. I still use Dos because it's faster and never crashes, I still listen to Vinyl because it sounds better 😀

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: zoiks
Quebert has a different point of view. If you learn the command skills then you can use those to your advantage and do stuff a lot more efficiently than using the GUI. But using commands on a shell session is not for everyone.
I don't hate windows but I seldom use it nowadays. At home I use Ubuntu and that for me works a lot better than windows.

the OS level GUI made people dumb, I loved the GUI of programs in DOS, but for my OS? I don't need graphics and bullshit that takes me 30 seconds and 10 mouse clicks to accomplish something I could do in Dos in 5 seconds. Also if I needed to do file renaming on a large scale, I had Xtree Pro which can do things I still can't in Explorer. Can you batch rename files in explorer?

I still use Dos on a daily basis, and oddly enough I accomplish more than I could on a GUI box. But I'm old school so as zoiks say to each his own.

MrPickins - DeskviewX works just fine for Dos multitasking, I was just in PFS (word processor) and had an image viewer open.

That's ridiculous, really. The "dumb" people you're talking about weren't computer literate in the DOS days anyway and they're not literate now.

And arguing about productivity is also silly. If you like running CLI apps, there is nothing that prevents you from doing so. I still do a lot of my work from the CLI, but to argue that you can accomplish more without a GUI is arguing from a position of minority. Every aspect of business benefits from a functional GUI, from accounting to IT.

I'm surprised this is even an argument actually.

 

[QueBert]

if you learn how to use a CLI well and can type fast, you will get more done. It shouldn't be that hard to understand. Take a Dos wiz and put him next to a Windows wiz, give them the same 10 tasks to do the Dos wiz should come out ahead in at least 8 of them. Hell even in Windows I show people keyboard shortcuts because doing the majority of shit with a mouse takes longer.

 

[DayLaPaul]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: QueBert
Can you batch rename files in explorer?

Yes.

not bad, I did not know this. Xtree's still better though 😀

Maybe it's not the GUI's making people dumber, but people's refusal to learn how to use them properly that is.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: QueBert
I hate Windows with a passion, I hate that people needed a GUI to use computers. I was happy with Dos 6.22, I'll probably never enjoy the "Windows Experience" Windows 7 will be more of the same in my eyes.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah is all I hear. The CLI is great, but you're just an idiot for putting out such blanket statements.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: QueBert
if you learn how to use a CLI well and can type fast, you will get more done. It shouldn't be that hard to understand. Take a Dos wiz and put him next to a Windows wiz, give them the same 10 tasks to do the Dos wiz should come out ahead in at least 8 of them. Hell even in Windows I show people keyboard shortcuts because doing the majority of shit with a mouse takes longer.

False.

I type over 150wpm, but you're still missing the point really. If you want to do silly things like this:

cat somefile | wc -l > linecount.txt

or maybe...

cat somefile | perl -ne "print if /^ohhithere/;" > ohhitherelines.txt

Then yes, you can't beat it. Your trouble is that you're using helpdesk examples to support your point. If I want to look at my netbios cache, maybe add a route or two, etc. then I'm always going to jump to CLI. But please, show me how I can support any non-trivial business function through a strict use of CLI tools.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: zoiks
Quebert has a different point of view. If you learn the command skills then you can use those to your advantage and do stuff a lot more efficiently than using the GUI. But using commands on a shell session is not for everyone.
I don't hate windows but I seldom use it nowadays. At home I use Ubuntu and that for me works a lot better than windows.

can you play WoW on Ubuntu?

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: zoiks
Quebert has a different point of view. If you learn the command skills then you can use those to your advantage and do stuff a lot more efficiently than using the GUI. But using commands on a shell session is not for everyone.
I don't hate windows but I seldom use it nowadays. At home I use Ubuntu and that for me works a lot better than windows.

can you play WoW on Ubuntu?

I don't play WoW but I'm assuming you can use WineX to launch WoW.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: QueBert
I hate Windows with a passion, I hate that people needed a GUI to use computers. I was happy with Dos 6.22, I'll probably never enjoy the "Windows Experience" Windows 7 will be more of the same in my eyes.

I hate people who needed DOS to use computers. I use a sharp rock and scratch crude images of stick men spearing buffalo into the monitor, then rub two sticks together to make a small fire in the case with dried dung and twigs.

You have fire???? You're so lame. Me make cave drawnings using mamoth blood from hunt.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: QueBert
if you learn how to use a CLI well and can type fast, you will get more done. It shouldn't be that hard to understand. Take a Dos wiz and put him next to a Windows wiz, give them the same 10 tasks to do the Dos wiz should come out ahead in at least 8 of them. Hell even in Windows I show people keyboard shortcuts because doing the majority of shit with a mouse takes longer.

The CLI is best for some things, and GUI for others. What's wrong with running a command window within a GUI? Putty FTW.

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: QueBert
if you learn how to use a CLI well and can type fast, you will get more done. It shouldn't be that hard to understand. Take a Dos wiz and put him next to a Windows wiz, give them the same 10 tasks to do the Dos wiz should come out ahead in at least 8 of them. Hell even in Windows I show people keyboard shortcuts because doing the majority of shit with a mouse takes longer.

False.

I type over 150wpm, but you're still missing the point really. If you want to do silly things like this:

cat somefile | wc -l > linecount.txt

or maybe...

cat somefile | perl -ne "print if /^ohhithere/;" > ohhitherelines.txt

Then yes, you can't beat it. Your trouble is that you're using helpdesk examples to support your point. If I want to look at my netbios cache, maybe add a route or two, etc. then I'm always going to jump to CLI. But please, show me how I can support any non-trivial business function through a strict use of CLI tools.

You can get a lot accomplished without using a GUI. I use vi for my text editor and its blazingly fast. Much faster than notepad or a gui text editor. I work with embedded software and firmware companies and we basically use gcc and other command line C/C++ compilers. We use gdb as a debugger for our purposes. Mail can be done via Mutt or Pine without using a GUI.
You're right that in reality it is more useful to use tools that can facilitate you better in the tasks that you are working on. I use thunderbird exclusively at work. My company is primarily a unix shop so we are more adapted to *nix environments. A lot of the developers use Linux exclusively though they do use a desktop env like KDE or Gnome.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: QueBert
if you learn how to use a CLI well and can type fast, you will get more done. It shouldn't be that hard to understand. Take a Dos wiz and put him next to a Windows wiz, give them the same 10 tasks to do the Dos wiz should come out ahead in at least 8 of them. Hell even in Windows I show people keyboard shortcuts because doing the majority of shit with a mouse takes longer.

The CLI is best for some things, and GUI for others. What's wrong with running a command window within a GUI? Putty FTW.

Exactly. CLI is fine if the task you are wanting to complete is easier or faster that way. I would LOVE for QueBert to show me how to design a circuit board and do the layout from the CLI. Even the simplest case would be insanely hard compared to doing it with a GUI. Let's see your Photoshop skills from the CLI as well. The list is endless.

 

[Shawn]

troll thread

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: QueBert
if you learn how to use a CLI well and can type fast, you will get more done. It shouldn't be that hard to understand. Take a Dos wiz and put him next to a Windows wiz, give them the same 10 tasks to do the Dos wiz should come out ahead in at least 8 of them. Hell even in Windows I show people keyboard shortcuts because doing the majority of shit with a mouse takes longer.

The CLI is best for some things, and GUI for others. What's wrong with running a command window within a GUI? Putty FTW.

Exactly. CLI is fine if the task you are wanting to complete is easier or faster that way. I would LOVE for QueBert to show me how to design a circuit board and do the layout from the CLI. Even the simplest case would be insanely hard compared to doing it with a GUI. Let's see your Photoshop skills from the CLI as well. The list is endless.

You mean a graphics program will have a GUI? imagine that! I was commenting on how I hate people who need a GUI to use a computer, to me that = the OS. There is nothing OS wise I prefer to do in a GUI over a CLI. I ran Photoshop on my Dos box, and it had a GUI. Obviously you can't draw a picture using a command line, GUI's have been around long before Windows, GEOS on my C64 had a GUI. I was referring to the OS itself and how GUI's end up making most tasks slower.

 

[OUCaptain]

Don't know about MS's point of view but I have noticed dell offering vista with a free downgrade to XP

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: QueBert
I hate Windows with a passion, I hate that people needed a GUI to use computers. I was happy with Dos 6.22, I'll probably never enjoy the "Windows Experience" Windows 7 will be more of the same in my eyes.

I hate people who needed DOS to use computers. I use a sharp rock and scratch crude images of stick men spearing buffalo into the monitor, then rub two sticks together to make a small fire in the case with dried dung and twigs.

You have fire???? You're so lame. Me make cave drawnings using mamoth blood from hunt.

PFff noobs. Me amoeba and eat through Phagocytosis.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: QueBert
if you learn how to use a CLI well and can type fast, you will get more done. It shouldn't be that hard to understand. Take a Dos wiz and put him next to a Windows wiz, give them the same 10 tasks to do the Dos wiz should come out ahead in at least 8 of them. Hell even in Windows I show people keyboard shortcuts because doing the majority of shit with a mouse takes longer.

The CLI is best for some things, and GUI for others. What's wrong with running a command window within a GUI? Putty FTW.

Exactly. CLI is fine if the task you are wanting to complete is easier or faster that way. I would LOVE for QueBert to show me how to design a circuit board and do the layout from the CLI. Even the simplest case would be insanely hard compared to doing it with a GUI. Let's see your Photoshop skills from the CLI as well. The list is endless.

You mean a graphics program will have a GUI? imagine that! I was commenting on how I hate people who need a GUI to use a computer, to me that = the OS. There is nothing OS wise I prefer to do in a GUI over a CLI. I ran Photoshop on my Dos box, and it had a GUI. Obviously you can't draw a picture using a command line, GUI's have been around long before Windows, GEOS on my C64 had a GUI. I was referring to the OS itself and how GUI's end up making most tasks slower.

Your first post was:

I hate Windows with a passion, I hate that people needed a GUI to use computers. I was happy with Dos 6.22, I'll probably never enjoy the "Windows Experience" Windows 7 will be more of the same in my eyes.

which mentioned nothing of limiting it to OS-related tasks.

But even then, your argument still falls far short. At a simple level, certainly, many OS-related tasks are more efficient from the CLI; however, anyone that's administered even a few servers knows just how necessary a GUI really is. Ever maintained multiple web servers? Mail servers? DNS servers? What about database servers?

So, yes, fundamental OS-related tasks can be made more efficient through the CLI, but no competent IT practicioner limits themselves to one or the other.

Point is, there's a time and place for everything. Someone that doesn't know when to prefer one over the other is what we should be arguing about. The IT world is full of people that use the wrong tools at the wrong times, and even when at the right times they do so poorly. Ideology just doesn't come into play here.

And for what it's worth, I used to do ANSI "graphics" way back on my DOS box through things like AcidDraw. I'm pretty sure it was all keyboard driven, but it's been a while.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: QueBert
if you learn how to use a CLI well and can type fast, you will get more done. It shouldn't be that hard to understand. Take a Dos wiz and put him next to a Windows wiz, give them the same 10 tasks to do the Dos wiz should come out ahead in at least 8 of them. Hell even in Windows I show people keyboard shortcuts because doing the majority of shit with a mouse takes longer.

False.

I type over 150wpm, but you're still missing the point really. If you want to do silly things like this:

cat somefile | wc -l > linecount.txt

or maybe...

cat somefile | perl -ne "print if /^ohhithere/;" > ohhitherelines.txt

Then yes, you can't beat it. Your trouble is that you're using helpdesk examples to support your point. If I want to look at my netbios cache, maybe add a route or two, etc. then I'm always going to jump to CLI. But please, show me how I can support any non-trivial business function through a strict use of CLI tools.

You can get a lot accomplished without using a GUI. I use vi for my text editor and its blazingly fast. Much faster than notepad or a gui text editor.

I was, and still am to some degree, a huge vi and emacs fan. I respectfully disagree though, because I've found UltraEdit to be far more productive. I can load gigantic files (something Windows editors have a really hard time with), I get a full Perl 5 regex engine and I can do everything I need. I use it all the time for data transformations.

The only real benefit I get from the GUI is a tabbed environment which helps in managing a lot of files at once. I prefer the vi method of being able to s/do/things.

I work with embedded software and firmware companies and we basically use gcc and other command line C/C++ compilers. We use gdb as a debugger for our purposes. Mail can be done via Mutt or Pine without using a GUI.

With that type of work, I can understand such preferences. I used to do quite a lot of embedded work myself, and much of my time was in the CLI at that point. I have a suite of probably about 100 different tools, most I built myself, that allows me to combine | actions | to | get -profound >> /dev/results. I miss the ability to orchestrate solutions at that level sometimes.

You're right that in reality it is more useful to use tools that can facilitate you better in the tasks that you are working on. I use thunderbird exclusively at work. My company is primarily a unix shop so we are more adapted to *nix environments. A lot of the developers use Linux exclusively though they do use a desktop env like KDE or Gnome.

And believe me, I used to be a huge proponent of CLI, Linux, the-right-tool-for-the-right-time, well designed tools that do one thing and one thing well and all that. I lost out to the pace of business though, where users' mistakes well outpace the advancement of technology. I've long ago adopted a strategy of limited visual interaction, giving users very little visual stimulus to drive them through a process. Complex UI, including a complex CLI application with a bunch of potential flags, simply overwhelms users.

Granted, if I had the privilege of working in an embedded environment and got away from the capriciousness of business and the users I might have a different tone 😉

And finally, the wonderful irony of software is that there's a lot of enthusiasm now about SOA. Many treat it like it's something new, as though these ideas just surfaced in the minds of developers. People with *nix backgrounds know better, but that's the way the tides flow.

 

[rh71]

lol @ i-stick-with-notepad-type people.

 

[brandonbull]

How many people need to ability to batch rename files on their machine? 2?

I'm sure a few hate visual studio and would rather code everything in a text file and then run a command line compiler.

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: Farang

to make a small fire in the case with dried dung

:laugh:

 

[ethebubbeth]

Originally posted by: zoiks
I don't play WoW but I'm assuming you can use WineX to launch WoW.

WoW runs great under wine. My girlfriend plays Guild Wars under wine without much trouble as well.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: brandonbull
How many people need to ability to batch rename files on their machine? 2?

I'm sure a few hate visual studio and would rather code everything in a text file and then run a command line compiler.

it can be very useful when you pull 200 pics off a digital camera and don't want them to be named imgXXX.jpg. Like if I took a bunch at the Zoo they could be "zoo-XXX.jpg" I honestly didn't know Explorer could do this, it's a very useful feature for some of us, even if it's just a few people. When I found Ztree (Windows Xtree port) I almost died. I still use Ztree to this day 🙂