Virginia news crew shot to death on air

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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Not only does the constitution preserve the right to own guns, it also prohibits the mere discussion of more restrictive policies.

You're also welcome to discuss whether or not the sun will rise tomorrow, whether the government will end all taxes tomorrow, or whether or not you'll live forever.

Those things are all just as reasonable as talking about ending firearms ownership until you've passed an amendment. If you want to waste your time, be my guest.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
No, he's completely serious. traashman is a buffoon.
He was right about common murders though. In my area, murders are almost exclusively a black-on-black thing. Pretty sure they aren't claiming G-d told them to do a drive-by.

When can we start talking about ENDING gun ownership?
When "we" live in Cuba or North Korea.

Every fucking time a gun related tragedy happens two more things happen: first, the left demand more gun control and to ban certain weapons; and second, gun sales go through the roof. These two reactions are not uncommon, they are in fact nearly 100% predictable.

So, in summary, the greatest salesman the gun makers have is the left!

Brian
Pretty much.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,309
1,209
126
When "we" live in Cuba or North Korea.

Pretty much.

Or Japan which happens to have one of the lowest gun murder rates in the world (.06 to our 10.64) and has no private hand gun ownership. I know there are many other factors as well, but surely the lack of access to hand guns plays a role. Being on island also helps. If we make hand guns illegal, there would probably be a brisk trade over the borders.

It is depressing to me that a first world nation like ours would have a gun murder rate 500x greater than that of another first world nation. Our gun murder rate is much more aligned with 3rd world nations than 1st world nations. We are one of the most violent places on earth and far far far more dangerous than ANY other first world nation. We are fucking up our country and should at least attempt to fix it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
4,000
2
0
Or Japan which happens to have one of the lowest gun murder rates in the world (.06 to our 10.64) and has no private hand gun ownership. I know there are many other factors as well, but surely the lack of access to hand guns plays a role. Being on island also helps. If we make hand guns illegal, there would probably be a brisk trade over the borders.

It is depressing to me that a first world nation like ours would have a gun murder rate 500x greater than that of another first world nation. Our gun murder rate is much more aligned with 3rd world nations than 1st world nations. We are one of the most violent places on earth and far far far more dangerous than ANY other first world nation. We are fucking up our country and should at least attempt to fix it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate


And your solution? Be specific!


Brian
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,493
9,824
136
Or Japan which happens to have one of the lowest gun murder rates in the world (.06 to our 10.64) and has no private hand gun ownership. I know there are many other factors as well, but surely the lack of access to hand guns plays a role. Being on island also helps. If we make hand guns illegal, there would probably be a brisk trade over the borders.

It is depressing to me that a first world nation like ours would have a gun murder rate 500x greater than that of another first world nation. Our gun murder rate is much more aligned with 3rd world nations than 1st world nations. We are one of the most violent places on earth and far far far more dangerous than ANY other first world nation. We are fucking up our country and should at least attempt to fix it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

japan is one of the most culturally homogeneous countries in the world. same with well....all of europe, basically.

none of the other first world countries have the same degree of mixing of cultures, and the same institutionalized disparity of economy and economic opportunity.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
japan is one of the most culturally homogeneous countries in the world. same with well....all of europe, basically.

none of the other first world countries have the same degree of mixing of cultures, and the same institutionalized disparity of economy and economic opportunity.

This.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
I'm sure you'll take point without a gun on all the raids to collect those guns once your dream of ownership is ended. Not that it will ever happen.

1. Immediate restrictions on public/private sale of new and used guns
2. Delayed (10 yrs.) restrictions on ownership
3. Immediate requirement for existing guns to be registered with the government
4. Government will pay flat rate of ~$500/gun for voluntary surrenders, up to first 300 million guns ($150 billion cost, spread over 10 years)
5. Possession of unregistered gun = felony
6. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a felony = felony
7. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a murder = felony murder

Simple enough, no raids needed.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
When "we" live in Cuba or North Korea.

The only two countries with restrictive gun laws.

japan is one of the most culturally homogeneous countries in the world. same with well....all of europe, basically.

none of the other first world countries have the same degree of mixing of cultures, and the same institutionalized disparity of economy and economic opportunity.

Translation: They don't have black people.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
It is depressing to me that a first world nation like ours would have a gun murder rate 500x greater than that of another first world nation.
Could you show me the math you used to obtain that number? Thanks.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
1. Immediate restrictions on public/private sale of new and used guns
2. Delayed (10 yrs.) restrictions on ownership
3. Immediate requirement for existing guns to be registered with the government
4. Government will pay flat rate of ~$500/gun for voluntary surrenders, up to first 300 million guns ($150 billion cost, spread over 10 years)
5. Possession of unregistered gun = felony
6. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a felony = felony
7. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a murder = felony murder

Simple enough, no raids needed.
Be sure to share which other rights you wish to crush in order to more thoroughly seat governments' boot on our necks. 'Cause that can only be a good thing.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Or Japan which happens to have one of the lowest gun murder rates in the world (.06 to our 10.64) and has no private hand gun ownership. I know there are many other factors as well, but surely the lack of access to hand guns plays a role. Being on island also helps. If we make hand guns illegal, there would probably be a brisk trade over the borders.

It is depressing to me that a first world nation like ours would have a gun murder rate 500x greater than that of another first world nation. Our gun murder rate is much more aligned with 3rd world nations than 1st world nations. We are one of the most violent places on earth and far far far more dangerous than ANY other first world nation. We are fucking up our country and should at least attempt to fix it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
Our obesity rate is also out of whack. Perhaps we should first ban all flatware and see how that works before we jump into actual rights, eh?
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
Be sure to share which other rights you wish to crush in order to more thoroughly seat governments' boot on our necks. 'Cause that can only be a good thing.

Seems most gun owners are perfectly comfortable with the government's boot on their necks. What have they done about government surveillance or the continued erosion of the protection of other constitutional provisions? I guess the 2nd protects the 1st, but not the 4th?
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
You're also welcome to discuss whether or not the sun will rise tomorrow, whether the government will end all taxes tomorrow, or whether or not you'll live forever.

Those things are all just as reasonable as talking about ending firearms ownership until you've passed an amendment. If you want to waste your time, be my guest.

Broad restrictions on guns will not require an amendment. All it will require is that the SCOTUS determines that we've been interepreting the 2nd amendment incorrectly. The current SCOTUS will never do that, but if there was a shift in public attidutes and a couple of new Associate Justices, it would be very possible.

The hurdle for gun control advocates is not institutional, it is public opinion, which continues to oppose gun control.
 

FerrelGeek

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2009
4,670
271
126
1. Immediate restrictions on public/private sale of new and used guns
2. Delayed (10 yrs.) restrictions on ownership
3. Immediate requirement for existing guns to be registered with the government
4. Government will pay flat rate of ~$500/gun for voluntary surrenders, up to first 300 million guns ($150 billion cost, spread over 10 years)
5. Possession of unregistered gun = felony
6. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a felony = felony
7. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a murder = felony murder

Simple enough, no raids needed.

And criminals being criminals will violate these new regs; just like they violate the current regs. Nothing you suggest would alleviate the weekly butchery that happens in Chicago.

i Say we do something more constructive right out to the liberal playbook. The shooter was a gay black man who posted a hate-filled manifesto. We should declare #blacklivesmatter a domestic terrorist group and impugn the rainbow flag - stop selling clothing that has it and pull any tv shows if it's prominently displayed.

/sarcasm
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Or Japan which happens to have one of the lowest gun murder rates in the world (.06 to our 10.64) and has no private hand gun ownership. I know there are many other factors as well, but surely the lack of access to hand guns plays a role. Being on island also helps. If we make hand guns illegal, there would probably be a brisk trade over the borders.

It is depressing to me that a first world nation like ours would have a gun murder rate 500x greater than that of another first world nation. Our gun murder rate is much more aligned with 3rd world nations than 1st world nations. We are one of the most violent places on earth and far far far more dangerous than ANY other first world nation. We are fucking up our country and should at least attempt to fix it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Japan has never had a history of private weapon ownership. Even back in the days of swords and the Shoguns. But like Europe their govt abused that lack of ownership to force society into killing millions of peoples in Korea, China, and across the south pacific.

Europe and Japan are the worst example of why a lack of gun ownership is good. The people were literally powerless when their govts sent them off to be murdered or to murder.

So now onto how we can work to reduce these rates? How about addressing the problem that is causing the violence? Our failed drug war. Those daily gun battles in Chicago are due to turf wars fought by gangs over the lucrative drug trade. Legalize drugs and their black market dries up. When it dries up what are they going to fight over? Also where are they going to get their cash to buy weapons?

The other is obvious, reduce poverty. I think we have elevated enough out of poverty over the past 50 years our rates of violence have been dropping for the past 20.

There is a lot for us to work on. Banning guns for everybody is the least effectual imo.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
1. Immediate restrictions on public/private sale of new and used guns

Ridiculous and most likely illegal.

2. Delayed (10 yrs.) restrictions on ownership

Again, ridiculous and most likely illegal

3. Immediate requirement for existing guns to be registered with the government

This afaik has already been tried and is illegal.
4. Government will pay flat rate of ~$500/gun for voluntary surrenders, up to first 300 million guns ($150 billion cost, spread over 10 years)

Laughable, honestly. Do you have any idea what a lot of these guns are even worth? Try a starting point 3x. Or all you will get is Grandpas 22 pistol that hasnt worked since 1937.

5. Possession of unregistered gun = felony

That should help out our economy. Make a huge % of our country felons.

6. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a felony = felony
7. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a murder = felony murder

Just cant wait to flood our prison system with people exercising a constitutional right can you?

Simple enough, no raids needed.

And how do you propose to enforce any of your draconian laws? The police will have to get involved. And they wont be going to a house with a pissed off gun owner without their tank.

Congrats you will turn our country into Iraq soon enough!
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
Ridiculous and most likely illegal.
Again, ridiculous and most likely illegal
This afaik has already been tried and is illegal.

Of course they're illegal. I was responding to the suggestion that broad gun restriction would require raids to seize guns.

Laughable, honestly. Do you have any idea what a lot of these guns are even worth? Try a starting point 3x. Or all you will get is Grandpas 22 pistol that hasnt worked since 1937.

Oh well.

That should help out our economy. Make a huge % of our country felons.

WTF is that going to do to the economy?

Just cant wait to flood our prison system with people exercising a constitutional right can you?

How will the prison system get "flooded"? You're not raiding or seeking out gun owners, you're punishing them when their guns get used in crimes.

And how do you propose to enforce any of your draconian laws? The police will have to get involved. And they wont be going to a house with a pissed off gun owner without their tank.

What in the fuck are you even talking about? You enforce laws by arresting people that break them. People that choose to keep gun in their houses outside the law have a constitutional right to privacy, and will only get in trouble for their guns if their houses are searched or other reasons.

Congrats you will turn our country into Iraq soon enough!

Yeah, sure.
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,382
65
91
Europe and Japan are the worst example of why a lack of gun ownership is good. The people were literally powerless when their govts sent them off to be murdered or to murder.
huh? You are badly misinformed about the rest of the world.
1024px-World_map_of_civilian_gun_ownership_-_2nd_color_scheme.svg.png



Intentional homicide rates:
1024px-Map_of_world_by_intentional_homicide_rate.svg.png


By comparison the US has a violence vs. GDP problem (that has actually gotten better in the last decades though), not a gun problem, but you are misinformed about gun politics in the rest of the world.
Except for Japan. But even then, it's not the presence of guns that would have changed their participation in WW2.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
1. Immediate restrictions on public/private sale of new and used guns
2. Delayed (10 yrs.) restrictions on ownership
3. Immediate requirement for existing guns to be registered with the government
4. Government will pay flat rate of ~$500/gun for voluntary surrenders, up to first 300 million guns ($150 billion cost, spread over 10 years)
5. Possession of unregistered gun = felony
6. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a felony = felony
7. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a murder = felony murder

Simple enough, no raids needed.
1) could be considered unconstitutional depending on how it gets written
2) unconstitutional (2nd amendment)
3) See #1
4) If voluntary
5) See #2
6) unconstitutional - deprives person of property regarding sale of such.
7) unconstitutional - deprives person of property regarding sale of such.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
Japan has never had a history of private weapon ownership. Even back in the days of swords and the Shoguns. But like Europe their govt abused that lack of ownership to force society into killing millions of peoples in Korea, China, and across the south pacific.

Europe and Japan are the worst example of why a lack of gun ownership is good. The people were literally powerless when their govts sent them off to be murdered or to murder.

Oh yeah, like when the gun owners stopped our government from sending us to the Philipines, or Vietnam, or Iraq. Oh wait.

So now onto how we can work to reduce these rates? How about addressing the problem that is causing the violence? Our failed drug war. Those daily gun battles in Chicago are due to turf wars fought by gangs over the lucrative drug trade. Legalize drugs and their black market dries up. When it dries up what are they going to fight over? Also where are they going to get their cash to buy weapons?

Yeah, end the drug war, decriminalize. Totall agree. But gangs will still pimp, traffic people, start kidnapping or look for other revenue streams.

The other is obvious, reduce poverty. I think we have elevated enough out of poverty over the past 50 years our rates of violence have been dropping for the past 20.

We've been regressing for 20-30 years now, the fall of real incomes outside the top quintile or so is well established. It would take a huge social effort to reverse a lot of the root problems of poverty and social disfunction, and if you read these boards you get the sense that most people are not interested in even acknowledging those roots.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
1. Immediate restrictions on public/private sale of new and used guns
2. Delayed (10 yrs.) restrictions on ownership
3. Immediate requirement for existing guns to be registered with the government
4. Government will pay flat rate of ~$500/gun for voluntary surrenders, up to first 300 million guns ($150 billion cost, spread over 10 years)
5. Possession of unregistered gun = felony
6. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a felony = felony
7. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a murder = felony murder

Simple enough, no raids needed.

Simple enough. This how you get public officials killed and violent protests started.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
1. Immediate restrictions on public/private sale of new and used guns
2. Delayed (10 yrs.) restrictions on ownership
3. Immediate requirement for existing guns to be registered with the government
4. Government will pay flat rate of ~$500/gun for voluntary surrenders, up to first 300 million guns ($150 billion cost, spread over 10 years)
5. Possession of unregistered gun = felony
6. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a felony = felony
7. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a murder = felony murder

Simple enough, no raids needed.

Right...

I think you should do a little research on the NYS SAFE Act. Mandated registration of scary black rifles...You should pay specific attention to how many actually registered their AR-15's, AK clones, etc....The numbers registered weren't even representative of the number of those rifles in NYS. Willful and mass civil disobedience to the law. Isn't that what liberals and progressives are all about though?

Good luck.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
1) could be considered unconstitutional depending on how it gets written
2) unconstitutional (2nd amendment)
3) See #1
4) If voluntary
5) See #2
6) unconstitutional - deprives person of property regarding sale of such.
7) unconstitutional - deprives person of property regarding sale of such.

# is already illegal due to the firearms act of 1986. Doesn't stop them from trying.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,493
9,824
136
The only two countries with restrictive gun laws.



Translation: They don't have black people.

While technically true (nor does Japan have any white or Hispanic people), being black doesn't automatically make you a criminal.

The lack of economic opportunity that has been institutionalized over the majority of the US' history (not to mention biased law enforcement and legal systems) is what's resulted in such a huge part of the black population being involved in crime somehow.

One more thing, Asian cultures in general tend to value harmony and submission to authority far more than western cultures, especially the US.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
1. Immediate restrictions on public/private sale of new and used guns
2. Delayed (10 yrs.) restrictions on ownership
3. Immediate requirement for existing guns to be registered with the government
4. Government will pay flat rate of ~$500/gun for voluntary surrenders, up to first 300 million guns ($150 billion cost, spread over 10 years)
5. Possession of unregistered gun = felony
6. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a felony = felony
7. Unlawful sale or provision of gun to an individual that uses it in a murder = felony murder

Simple enough, no raids needed.

lol

all that's going to do is cause riots. not to mention won't work and cost the country billions in court cost wich will take decades.

people won't register them. so the only option left is raids.

Any major gun laws is going to require it.