Virginia Ex-GOP Sen. John Warner endorses Democrat

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"The politician who once best exemplified the idea of a "maverick" independent has shifted so far to the right that he is now tied for the title of the Senate's most conservative member, according to National Journal's 2010 vote ratings."

or

"According to a comprehensive examination of 96 Senate votes taken in 2010, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., along with seven of his colleagues, voted most often on the conservative side. His 89.7 composite conservative score ties him with stalwarts like Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., and gives him a more conservative score than Sens. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., and Jeff Sessions, R-Ala"

http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/mccain-s-shift-makes-him-senate-s-most-conservative-20110224

or

"Club For Growth Rating: 91%
American Conservative Union Rating: 92
National Journal Composite Conservative Score: 73.2
Aggregate Score: 85.4"

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-conservative-members-senate-2013-2?op=1

Yep, sure looks like a RINO to me.
I've already acknowleged that he's a RINO who's grown more conservative in recent years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain

Regarding the general notion of consistency of political positions over time, McCain said in June 2008: "My principles and my practice and my voting record are very clear. Not only from 2000 but 1998 and 1992 and 1986. And you know, it's kind of a favorite tactical ploy now that opponents use, of saying the person has changed. Look, none of my principles or values have changed. Have I changed position on some specific issues because of changed circumstances? I would hope so! I would hope so!"[3] It is often reported that McCain has grown more conservative throughout his tenure in the Senate, according to various studies.[4]

From your link.

Though McCain's latest NJ ranking is a stark contrast with his past record, the senator's spokeswoman, Brooke Buchanan, said his ideology has not changed. "But I can assure you," she added, "the legislative agenda in the Senate sure has."

Perhaps his conservative rating is actually more a reflection of the Senate agenda moving left than McCain moving right. Just a thought.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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eskimospy (or any liberal who's halfway knowledgable)...please weigh in and tell this yahoo he has no clue as to what he's talking about. McCain has been considered a RINO for quite some time.

The entire concept of RINO is bullshit. It's basically a bunch of yahoos circle jerking while forgetting that our political process is a democracy.
Keep it up and soon there won't be enough "true conservatives" left for the Republicans to win any elections.
 
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http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/05/democrats-have-moved-right-not-left

Why would you go back to pre civil rights southern democratic party to say democrats have moved left?
I didn't go back to pre-civil rights southern democratic party to say democrats have moved left as if you think I'm trying to cherry pick the data...that's all you and your "liberal brain defect". The data is presentated for the the post civil rights era as well and it clearly shows Dems have moved left since this time. You linked an op-ed from Mother Jones as if it somehow "proves" the Dems have moved right...a clear case of confirmation bias from a brain defective liberal...how fitting.

http://www.openleft.com/diary/18195/longterm-trends-show-democratic-party-moving-to-the-left

Long-term trends show Democratic Party moving to the left

DW-Nominate, the only ideological voting scorecard for members of all Congresses, all-time (1789--current), shows Democratic Senators moving, on average, decisively to the left over the past eighty years.

Democratic Senators, mean DW-nominate score by decade, 1930-2010
Scale is negative 1.000 to positive 1.000, with lower numbers indicating a more left-leaning economic voting record
1930's: -0.111 (334)
1940's: -0.096 (289)
1950's: -0.167 (269)
1960's: -0.271 (330)
1970's: -0.291 (299)
1980's: -0.303 (249)
1990's: -0.370 (248)
2000's: -0.394 (253)


Second, here is more recent detail on the trend, looking at each individual Congress (two-year period). Once again, the number in parenthesis is the total number of Democratic Senators during that Congress (including Independents Jeffords, Lieberman and Sanders; also including Senators who did not serve an entire two-year term):

More recent detail, 1989-2010
101st: -0.319 (56)
102nd: -0.331 (58)
103rd: -0.341 (57)
104th: -0.357 (48)
105th: -0.381 (45)
106th: -0.373 (46)
107th: -0.378 (51)
108th: -0.378 (49)
109th: -0.402 (45)
110th: -0.405 (51)
111th: -0.416 (60)


The trend through the decades, and over the last eleven Congress, is unmistakable: the party keeps moving to the left. The main factor in this trend has been the long, slow defection of conservative, southern Democrats out of the party, and the influx of liberal Senators from the northeast and west coast. It is also a reflection of ideological self-identification trends among the rank and file, as self-identified liberals are increasing as a percentage of the overall party:

gallupdemocrats.gif
There are several factors which have contributed to this trend...but there is really little doubt that the Democratic Party has moved left since the 60s and have continued this trend in recent years as well.
 
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bshole

Diamond Member
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I didn't go back to pre-civil rights southern democratic party to say democrats have moved left as if you think I'm cherry picking the data...that's all you and your "liberal brain defect". The data is presentated for the the post civil rights era as well and it clearly shows Dems have moved left since this time. You linked an op-ed from Mother Jones as if it somehow "proves" the Dems have moved right...how fitting.

http://www.openleft.com/diary/18195/longterm-trends-show-democratic-party-moving-to-the-left


There are several factors which have contributed to this trend...but there is really little doubt that the Democratic Party has moved left since the 60s and have continued to this trend in recent years as well.

DSF,

Do they provide a definition of "left" and "right"? Is it based on social issues or fiscal issues?
 
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Here's another graphic I found interesting. House Democrats appear to be much more monolithic and much more left of center than Republicans.

600px-House_111_X_plot.jpg
 
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GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Here's another graphic I found interesting. House Democrats appear to be much more monolithic and much more left of center than Republicans.

I gotta ask are you a far-right troll or just ignorant?

Becuase the GOP has been moving right and purging people for a while now. Trying to claim otherwise is outright ignorance.

Let see.....Bob Dole, you remember him right? Ran for president as the GOP nominee? War veteran? He says he doesn't belong to today's GOP.
Interview

Some choice quotes:
Dole, who will be 90 in July, said he was concerned about the direction of the party, saying the GOP is “moving further and further to the right.”

And Bob Dole says this about Reagan:
"Reagan couldn't have made it. Certainly, Nixon couldn't have made it, because he had ideas. We might've made it, but I doubt it," he said on FOX News Sunday.

So the GOP's sainted icon, Ronald Reagan himself, would be a RINO and thrown out of the GOP today.

So keep going DSF...dig the hole deeper and deeper. But it's still all Obama's fault right? LOL
 
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I gotta ask are you a far-right troll or just ignorant?

Becuase the GOP has been moving right and purging people for a while now. Trying to claim otherwise is outright ignorance.

Let see.....Bob Dole, you remember him right? Ran for president as the GOP nominee? War veteran? He says he doesn't belong to today's GOP.
Interview

Some choice quotes:


And Bob Dole says this about Reagan:


So the GOP's sainted icon, Ronald Reagan himself, would be a RINO and thrown out of the GOP today.

So keep going DSF...dig the hole deeper and deeper. But it's still all Obama's fault right? LOL
Where have I claimed that the Republican Party wasn't moving right? You can't because I never said that. Did you not understand Post #29 or the graph I posted in Post #37. I rarely call someone an idiot in this forum but I'm going to make an exception in your case.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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I've already acknowleged that he's a RINO who's grown more conservative in recent years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain

From your link.

Perhaps his conservative rating is actually more a reflection of the Senate agenda moving left than McCain moving right. Just a thought.
That's certainly part of it, but I think another big factor is McCain's disillusionment with the press. Except for abortion, McCain didn't reach across the aisle so much as live there between elections. He enjoyed his "maverick" status (which is mediaspeak for a Republican who can always be counted upon to produce a statement criticizing other Republicans, never the reverse) and thought he was one of the club. McCain learned the hard way that he was merely a useful idiot and like all such, the media would regretfully conclude that darn it, the Democrat (whoever it may be) is just so much better that regretfully they have to endorse/support his opponent. Republican "mavericks" are useful only where they can damage other Republicans, and once they threaten a Democrat with an actual chance of winning they are always dropped.

Another big factor is the movement of both parties away from the center. That makes it harder to support Democrats and makes him more visible to the electorate when he does it. With Arizona's move to the right, those things make him vulnerable to a primary challenge if he continues to be a pretend Democrat. Pretty much a perfect storm to move him right.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
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That's certainly part of it, but I think another big factor is McCain's disillusionment with the press. Except for abortion, McCain didn't reach across the aisle so much as live there between elections. He enjoyed his "maverick" status (which is mediaspeak for a Republican who can always be counted upon to produce a statement criticizing other Republicans, never the reverse) and thought he was one of the club. McCain learned the hard way that he was merely a useful idiot and like all such, the media would regretfully conclude that darn it, the Democrat (whoever it may be) is just so much better that regretfully they have to endorse/support his opponent. Republican "mavericks" are useful only where they can damage other Republicans, and once they threaten a Democrat with an actual chance of winning they are always dropped.


Selective memory there... McCain got blindsided by BUSH in one of the most vicious attacks in American political history.

Lets see, the Bush slur machine accused McCain of having a black child out of wedlock, of being gay and his wife of being a heoin addict. It worked, McCain who was the shoo-in before Bush got dirty, lost.

The battle between Bush and McCain for South Carolina has entered American political lore as one of the nastiest, dirtiest, and most brutal ever.[14][48][49] On the one hand, Bush switched his label for himself from "compassionate conservative" to "reformer with results", as part of trying to co-opt McCain's popular message of reform.[14][50][51] On the other hand, a variety of business and interest groups that McCain had challenged in the past now pounded him with negative ads.[14][52]
The day that a new poll showed McCain five points ahead in the state,[53] Bush allied himself on stage with a marginal and controversial veterans activist named J. Thomas Burch, who accused McCain of having "abandoned the veterans" on POW/MIA and Agent Orange issues: "He came home from Vietnam and forgot us."[14][53] Incensed,[53] McCain ran ads accusing Bush of lying and comparing the governor to Bill Clinton,[14] which Bush complained was "about as low a blow as you can give in a Republican primary."[14] An unidentified party began a semi-underground smear campaign against McCain, delivered by push polls, faxes, e-mails, flyers, audience plants, and the like.[14][54] These claimed most famously that he had fathered a black child out of wedlock (the McCains' dark-skinned daughter Bridget was adopted from Bangladesh; this misrepresentation was thought to be an especially effective slur in a Deep South state where race was still central[49]), but also that his wife Cindy was a drug addict, that he was a homosexual, and that he was a "Manchurian Candidate" traitor or mentally unstable from his North Vietnam POW days.[14][48] The Bush campaign strongly denied any involvement with these attacks;[48] Bush said he would fire anyone who ran defamatory push polls.[55] During a break in a debate, Bush put his hand on McCain's arm and reiterated that he had no involvement in the attacks; McCain replied, "Don't give me that shit. And take your hands off me."[47]
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
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Wow, all this knashing of teeth about defining Rino's and Dino's. Checked up on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin lately?

Seriously, I think it's a very subjective thing, based on ones own political reference frame. Heck I wondered when the Dino Clinton was going to do anything left of center while in office while the Rebubs and Cons were screaming OMG socialst, communists, ect.

Kind of like now with Obama.
 
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What's the X scale on this chart? Maybe the political center is at -0.5.
...or perhaps +0.5 for that matter. But I can see how -0.5 (or +0.5) would confirm the delusional bias of someone with a highly partisan worldview.
 
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Wow, all this knashing of teeth about defining Rino's and Dino's. Checked up on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin lately?

Seriously, I think it's a very subjective thing, based on ones own political reference frame. Heck I wondered when the Dino Clinton was going to do anything left of center while in office while the Rebubs and Cons were screaming OMG socialst, communists, ect.

Kind of like now with Obama.
I was not aware that Clinton was considered a DINO by many in his own party. Lieberman yes...and we know what happened to him.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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The Almanac of American Politics (2005) labeled McCain as 52% conservative, 47% liberal....not even close to the "extremely conservative politician by any objective measure" politician that you paint him to be. Yes, McCain may have become slightly more conservative during his career....but the fact is that he has a strong liberal streak and was called a RINO well before the Tea Party came into existence.

John McCain has a lifetime first order DW-NOMINATE score of .380. Calling someone like that a RINO just points to how radicalized the Republican Party has become.
 
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John McCain has a lifetime first order DW-NOMINATE score of .380. Calling someone like that a RINO just points to how radicalized the Republican Party has become.
McCain was considered a RINO by many in the Republican Party well before the Tea Party came along. Yes or no?

Also, please link McCain's DW-NOMINATE scores as I'm having difficulty finding them.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
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I was not aware that Clinton was considered a DINO by many in his own party. Lieberman yes...and we know what happened to him.

Actually, Liberman was a good liberal except he got confused as to which country he was more loyal to.