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Originally posted by: manowar821
You can say that I sounded like an idiot, but I'm right.
This war is BS.
The armed forces act like children, and now we have to clean up the country we blew to pieces. I don't enjoy having my hard earned tax dollars spent on murdering people for god knows what reason, and on building policies that take rights away from me and everyone else.
Nationalist pigs.

Then move?

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: manowar821
You can say that I sounded like an idiot, but I'm right.
This war is BS.
The armed forces act like children, and now we have to clean up the country we blew to pieces. I don't enjoy having my hard earned tax dollars spent on murdering people for god knows what reason, and on building policies that take rights away from me and everyone else.
Nationalist pigs.

Then move?

God damn, I cannot stand childish responses like this. "If you don't like it then move!"

No.
Being born in the united states wasn't my conscious choice, so I shouldn't have to change my views for the views of the pigs that run this country.

What is the use in just running away, instead of doing something about the problem? If I ran, then people after me would have to deal with this sh1t too. Maybe if enough people like me stick around, we can actually change something for the better.

Then move... What a joke.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: manowar821
God damn, I cannot stand childish responses like this. "If you don't like it then move!"

No.
Being born in the united states wasn't my conscious choice, so I shouldn't have to change my views for the views of the pigs that run this country.

What is the use in just running away, instead of doing something about the problem? If I ran, then people after me would have to deal with this sh1t too. Maybe if enough people like me stick around, we can actually change something for the better.

Then move... What a joke.

You belong in P&N. You'll get along fine there.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: manowar821
God damn, I cannot stand childish responses like this. "If you don't like it then move!"

No.
Being born in the united states wasn't my conscious choice, so I shouldn't have to change my views for the views of the pigs that run this country.

What is the use in just running away, instead of doing something about the problem? If I ran, then people after me would have to deal with this sh1t too. Maybe if enough people like me stick around, we can actually change something for the better.

Then move... What a joke.

You belong in P&N. You'll get along fine there.

I guess so. I think the whole thread belongs in there, actually.

 

[toolboxolio]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Iraq is like what Vietnam was, you can't tell the good guys from the bad guys.

So kill them all?

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: manowar821
You can say that I sounded like an idiot, but I'm right.
This war is BS.
The armed forces act like children, and now we have to clean up the country we blew to pieces. I don't enjoy having my hard earned tax dollars spent on murdering people for god knows what reason, and on building policies that take rights away from me and everyone else.
Nationalist pigs.

Then move?

God damn, I cannot stand childish responses like this. "If you don't like it then move!"

No.
Being born in the united states wasn't my conscious choice, so I shouldn't have to change my views for the views of the pigs that run this country.

What is the use in just running away, instead of doing something about the problem? If I ran, then people after me would have to deal with this sh1t too. Maybe if enough people like me stick around, we can actually change something for the better.

Then move... What a joke.

Because whining about will solve the problem! Genius!

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: supafly

Originally posted by: manowar821
You can say that I sounded like an idiot, but I'm right.
This war is BS.
The armed forces act like children, and now we have to clean up the country we blew to pieces. I don't enjoy having my hard earned tax dollars spent on murdering people for god knows what reason, and on building policies that take rights away from me and everyone else.
Nationalist pigs.

Then move?

God damn, I cannot stand childish responses like this. "If you don't like it then move!"

No.
Being born in the united states wasn't my conscious choice, so I shouldn't have to change my views for the views of the pigs that run this country.

What is the use in just running away, instead of doing something about the problem? If I ran, then people after me would have to deal with this sh1t too. Maybe if enough people like me stick around, we can actually change something for the better.

Then move... What a joke.

Because whining about will solve the problem! Genius!

Wow, because my "whining" on a forum directly shadows how I act in real life.
Excellent deduction my good man.

 

[blurredvision]

The response to the video is unfounded. Too many assumptions are being made to make an accurate judgement of the video.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: toolboxolio

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Iraq is like what Vietnam was, you can't tell the good guys from the bad guys.

So kill them all?

Yep, let God sort it out...


I don't have near enough information to know what actually was happening in this video...what transpired just before the clip started, or what happened afterwards. Could this have been a heavy firefight in which the 2 cars were "insurgents"? Could this have been some kind of pre-planned ambush of known "bad-guys"? Sure could...COULD this have been something much more heinous than that, like the Marines shooting up innocent civilians for sport? Yeah, but I'd have a hard time believing that is what it really is.
As was mentioned earlier by Red Dawn, much like Vietnam, you can't tell the good guys from the bad ones in this war. NONE of the enemy wears a uniform that positively ID's them as an "Insurgent" or "Terrorist"...so, that can make it look like they are just killing innocent civilians, while in reality, they may be car-bombers, planting IED's, or murder squads...no way for us to know...
As for the "youthful exuberance" exhibited in the vid...it's easy to get excited about something like that...and remember, most of today's Marines were raised with video games, where killing IS fun...also, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that much of the audio was dubbed in...

Do good people do bad things in war? Yes. Is this a case of that? I don't know what the truth is behind the vid...

 

[Aimster]

I don't care if it was justified or not.

The marines were still acting like they were playing Halo when they found out civilians were being shot at.
So they managed to get a sniper while killing people in 2 cars.

That doesn't call for cheering. It doesn't call for high-fives.

 

[Rudee]

This video has been discussed on another forum. Apparently what happened is that these vehicles ran a checkpoint without stopping and the solders were ordered to open fire as they drove past their position.

 

[toolboxolio]

Originally posted by: Rudee
This video has been discussed on another forum. Apparently what happened is that these vehicles ran a checkpoint without stopping and the solders were ordered to open fire as they drove past their position.

Makes sense. But the sheer enjoyment of pwning a stranger from a safe place makes me wonder how much our marines are men instead of boys.

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Yep...let's take a video with no context and get outraged!

Meanwhile, we can ignore stuff like this...since you know, it isn't something American soldiers did:

Insurgents in Iraq detonated an explosives-rigged vehicle with two children in the back seat after US soldiers let it through a Baghdad checkpoint over the weekend, a senior US military official said Tuesday.

The vehicle was stopped at the checkpoint but was allowed through when soldiers saw the children in the back, said Major General Michael Barbero of the Pentagon's Joint Staff.

"Children in the back seat lowered suspicion. We let it move through. They parked the vehicle, and the adults ran out and detonated it with the children in the back," Barbero said.

The general said it was the first time he had seen a report of insurgents using children in suicide bombings. But he said Al-Qaeda in Iraq is changing tactics in response to the tighter controls around the city.

A US defense official said the incident occurred on Sunday in Baghdad's Adhamiyah district, a mixed neighborhood adjacent to Sadr City, which is predominantly Shiite.

After going through the checkpoint, the vehicle parked next to a market across the street from a school, said the official, who asked not to be identified.

"And the two adults were seen to get out of the vehicle, and run from the vehicle, and then followed by the detonation of the vehicle," the official said.

"It killed the two children inside as well as three other civilians in the vicinity. So, a total of five killed, seven injured," the official said.

Officials here said they did not know who the children were or their relationship to the two adults who fled the scene. They had no information about their ages or genders.

"The brutality and the ruthlessness of this enemy hasn't changed," said Barbero, deputy director of regional operations of the Joint Staff. "They are just interested in slaughtering Iraqi civilians, to be very honest."

Attacks on Iraqi civilians are down by a third and sectarian murders have fallen by 50 percent since mid-February when US and Iraqi forces began moving into Baghdad as part of a new security crackdown, the general said.

On the other hand, there has been no let-up in attacks on US forces by Al-Qaeda in Iraq and other Sunni extremist groups, he said.

The incidence of car bombings and suicide attacks, which are typically carried out by Sunni extremist groups against Shiites, also have gone up even though their effectiveness is down, he said.

"As our checkpoints, and control points have been more effective, as they try to execute these high profile attacks with these vehicle-borne IEDs (improvised explosive devices) in Baghdad, we're stopping a lot of them at these checkpoints and they are not getting to their intended targets," he said.

Wtf does this have to do with whether or not American soldiers knowingly shot at innocent Iraqi's in this vid?

What sickens me more than shooting innocent civilians in a battle are people who defend it with irrelevant BS in an effort to not hold anyone accountable for possible heinous acts.

You don't have a clue anymore than any other people what the situation was here, so feel free to leave any irrelevant BS out of it.

Personally I find the video disturbing on multiple fronts, whether or not innocents died.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I always thought everyone on ATOT had fantasies of subjecting rapists/pedophiles/other-bad-people? to all kinds of sadistic torture and pain? So a couple of soldiers go about their duties like cowboys in the Wild West - big deal. I'm against police brutality (using excessive force) but this is just a couple of young marines enjoying a firefight - probably because they knew they had the upper hand and were 'safer' than their target(s).

I don't know the story behind the video (someone above mentioned the car had run through a security checkpoint/barricade?) - if true, the soldiers were just doing their job. Suggesting that these guys are just a bunch of sadistic assholes is stupid and irresponsible.

Civilians? I will need to look at an article by a respected news source specifically about this video to believe that.

 

[RichUK]

THIS IS MADNESS!

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: RichUK
THIS IS MADNESS!

THIS IS SPPPPPAAAARRRTTTTTAAAA!!!
oh wait no.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: jjsole

Originally posted by: Queasy
Yep...let's take a video with no context and get outraged!

Meanwhile, we can ignore stuff like this...since you know, it isn't something American soldiers did:

Insurgents in Iraq detonated an explosives-rigged vehicle with two children in the back seat after US soldiers let it through a Baghdad checkpoint over the weekend, a senior US military official said Tuesday.

The vehicle was stopped at the checkpoint but was allowed through when soldiers saw the children in the back, said Major General Michael Barbero of the Pentagon's Joint Staff.

"Children in the back seat lowered suspicion. We let it move through. They parked the vehicle, and the adults ran out and detonated it with the children in the back," Barbero said.

The general said it was the first time he had seen a report of insurgents using children in suicide bombings. But he said Al-Qaeda in Iraq is changing tactics in response to the tighter controls around the city.

A US defense official said the incident occurred on Sunday in Baghdad's Adhamiyah district, a mixed neighborhood adjacent to Sadr City, which is predominantly Shiite.

After going through the checkpoint, the vehicle parked next to a market across the street from a school, said the official, who asked not to be identified.

"And the two adults were seen to get out of the vehicle, and run from the vehicle, and then followed by the detonation of the vehicle," the official said.

"It killed the two children inside as well as three other civilians in the vicinity. So, a total of five killed, seven injured," the official said.

Officials here said they did not know who the children were or their relationship to the two adults who fled the scene. They had no information about their ages or genders.

"The brutality and the ruthlessness of this enemy hasn't changed," said Barbero, deputy director of regional operations of the Joint Staff. "They are just interested in slaughtering Iraqi civilians, to be very honest."

Attacks on Iraqi civilians are down by a third and sectarian murders have fallen by 50 percent since mid-February when US and Iraqi forces began moving into Baghdad as part of a new security crackdown, the general said.

On the other hand, there has been no let-up in attacks on US forces by Al-Qaeda in Iraq and other Sunni extremist groups, he said.

The incidence of car bombings and suicide attacks, which are typically carried out by Sunni extremist groups against Shiites, also have gone up even though their effectiveness is down, he said.

"As our checkpoints, and control points have been more effective, as they try to execute these high profile attacks with these vehicle-borne IEDs (improvised explosive devices) in Baghdad, we're stopping a lot of them at these checkpoints and they are not getting to their intended targets," he said.

Wtf does this have to do with whether or not American soldiers knowingly shot at innocent Iraqi's in this vid?

What sickens me more than shooting innocent civilians in a battle are people who defend it with irrelevant BS in an effort to not hold anyone accountable for possible heinous acts.

You don't have a clue anymore than any other people what the situation was here, so feel free to leave any irrelevant BS out of it.

Personally I find the video disturbing on multiple fronts, whether or not innocents died.

Video with no context provided of the situation but it was obviously made with the "Evil American Soldiers are killing innocent Iraqis!! America is bad! Soldiers are disgusting!".

Just pointing out how interesting it is that people work up all sorts of outrage over this (where there is obviously more to the story than is shown) but ignore something truly outrageous like insurgents/terrorists using children to sneak in a car bomb and leaving the children in the car when it goes off.

Just my opinion. I don't find the video to be all that disturbing simply because it is a pretty f'd up place in parts of Iraq right now with people running checkpoints, driving car bombs, using children in attacks, and now using chlorine gas in attacks. The Marines are fighting. Plain and simple.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Video with no context provided of the situation but it was obviously made with the "Evil American Soldiers are killing innocent Iraqis!! America is bad! Soldiers are disgusting!".

Just pointing out how interesting it is that people work up all sorts of outrage over this (where there is obviously more to the story than is shown) but ignore something truly outrageous like insurgents/terrorists using children to sneak in a car bomb and leaving the children in the car when it goes off.

Not to mention this is just more jihad meant to influence americans. So see it for what it is - anti-american propoganda.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: toolboxolio

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Iraq is like what Vietnam was, you can't tell the good guys from the bad guys.

So kill them all?

We are talkling about kids really who just 5 years earlier were watching cartoons and playing Video Games. You put them in situations like that it's not hard for them to get confused and loose touch with their humanity.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
The first several responders to this thread, and especially the op...you are all idiots. You people are the reasons anti-us forces spend half their effort on propoganda, because lemmings like you are so willing so soak it up. And Aimster, why dont you just buy a 1 way ticket back to the middle east since you love it so much. I doubt many would miss you.

:thumbsup:

 

[ZippyDan]

Originally posted by: AUMM

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Whatever happened, doesn't it seem a little bit overkill?

They were enjoying that.

People are more productive when they enjoy their work...no??

Like said before, When you are in a firefight and your life is on the line, the adrenaline pumps and if this is not your 1st time in such a situation then you may actually start enjoying it. Besides, shooting is fun.

I dont think there is any scenario possible where I would enjoy killing a human being...

Originally posted by: tjaisv
No comment on all the speculation surrounding this.

I will say though that these "Marines" sounded very unprofessional. Sounds like they were playing a video game.

Originally posted by: Aimster
I don't care if it was justified or not.

The marines were still acting like they were playing Halo when they found out civilians were being shot at.
So they managed to get a sniper while killing people in 2 cars.

That doesn't call for cheering. It doesn't call for high-fives.

video games, fun, enjoying... um yes, thats exactly what is going on here. shooting guns is fun. shooting people can be fun (thats why so many of our video games involve... shooting people), especially if you do it enough.

im not saying its right, but what you see here is certainly not abnormal and is to be expected. how exactly do you expect these soldiers to go about their daily routines (yes, routines that often involve shooting things and people): grim faced and sad monks? sure i bet some are. but if you think this kind of behaviour is atypical then you are living in some fantasy world.

now whether they were civilians or not i can only speculate and i couldnt defend the killing of civilians (though it is equally uninformed to assume that they are civilians, the checkpoint explanation above is perfectly reasonable... if true), but it certainly is dumb to criticize their demeanors.

 

[buck]

Originally posted by: Uppsala9496
How do you know they aren't the bad guys and the Marine's weren't notified to be on the lookout for them?
I think the use of the word 'civilian' in this case is sickening. The marine's were doing their job (and believe me, if these were really civilians, this would have been all over every paper in the world, and on every news outlet you can think of.).

Thats what i was thinking....

That being said, if these were civilians, this is horrible....

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I don't care if it was justified or not.

The marines were still acting like they were playing Halo when they found out civilians were being shot at.
So they managed to get a sniper while killing people in 2 cars.

That doesn't call for cheering. It doesn't call for high-fives.

how do you know they were civilians being shot at?

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
The first several responders to this thread, and especially the op...you are all idiots. You people are the reasons anti-us forces spend half their effort on propoganda, because lemmings like you are so willing so soak it up. And Aimster, why dont you just buy a 1 way ticket back to the middle east since you love it so much. I doubt many would miss you.

:thumbsup:

They have internet access in Iraq, right? I say that we send Aimster there as our official ATOT field reporter

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: ZippyDan
video games, fun, enjoying... um yes, thats exactly what is going on here. shooting guns is fun. shooting people can be fun (thats why so many of our video games involve... shooting people), especially if you do it enough.

im not saying its right, but what you see here is certainly not abnormal and is to be expected. how exactly do you expect these soldiers to go about their daily routines (yes, routines that often involve shooting things and people): grim faced and sad monks? sure i bet some are. but if you think this kind of behaviour is atypical then you are living in some fantasy world.

now whether they were civilians or not i can only speculate and i couldnt defend the killing of civilians (though it is equally uninformed to assume that they are civilians, the checkpoint explanation above is perfectly reasonable... if true), but it certainly is dumb to criticize their demeanors.

Yep, it is very similar to gallow's humor. I remember seeing a video of some Marines driving around in a Humvee on patrol when all of the sudden you hear a loud crack and the camera pans around to a window with a large indention and shatter marks all around it. The Marines in the Humvee all started and laughing and making cracks about Iraqi Mosquitos....they had just been shot at by a sniper.