Video: Solar Freakin Roadways promo video

[halik]

Well, theoretically (and I'm not saying I buy it), these should be more durable and more easily repaired than actual roads, and if they were implemented nationally would presumably create more solar energy than all existing solar farms in the US presently, since the surface area would be so much larger. We as a nation are not particularly advanced or prolific in the implementation of solar energy, and in theory these would change that radically for the better. My major concern about them is that I can't see how the cost of implementation would not be absolutely staggering.

If it was more cost effective to have modular roads, it certainly would've happened already, QED.

 

[WelshBloke]

Well, theoretically (and I'm not saying I buy it), these should be more durable and more easily repaired than actual roads, ...

They would be even more durable without the electricity generating layer and the infrastructure that that needs surely?

...and if they were implemented nationally would presumably create more solar energy than all existing solar farms in the US presently, since the surface area would be so much larger.

Larger than the ones that are already built yes, but if you're considering a massive project to put lots of solar panels in place it would seem sensible to put them in an area that gets the most solar energy.

We as a nation are not particularly advanced or prolific in the implementation of solar energy, and in theory these would change that radically for the better. My major concern about them is that I can't see how the cost of implementation would not be absolutely staggering.

I'm sure the costs could be lowered.

Maybe by putting the panels in a designated area away from traffic and coating the roads in some other substance thats been tested? :sneaky:

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

If it was more cost effective to have modular roads, it certainly would've happened already, QED.

Perhaps, though I do not assume that the fact that we have always done things a certain way necessarily makes it a better or more cost effective way (not that those two things are always synonymous). I am particularly cognizant of this because I live in a place with such harsh winters - the potholes and crummy patches are a problem that never fully goes away. If there were a way (whether through these kinds of tiles or some other way) to completely replace damaged sections of road, I'd have to think it would be better and safer than what we have here. This winter was particularly harsh, and even now, when it's almost June, I have to drive over sections of road where the entire tarmac surface is, in places, totally missing - we are talking about potholes that are six inches deep. It's just insane.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

They would be even more durable without the electricity generating layer and the infrastructure that that needs surely?

Larger than the ones that are already built yes, but if you're considering a massive project to put lots of solar panels in place it would seem sensible to put them in an area that gets the most solar energy.

I'm sure the costs could be lowered.

Maybe by putting the panels in a designated area away from traffic and coating the roads in some other substance thats been tested? :sneaky:

Yes, all of the above is probably true. As I said I am not advocating for these roads. I do, however, admire the forward thinking behind them, and think that conceptually there may be ideas here worth implementing or at least seriously exploring.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

If it was more cost effective to have modular roads, it certainly would've happened already, QED.

You must be completely naive if you think roads are about anything other than awarding huge government contracts to buddies, campaign supporters, and family members.

At least in Illinois the contracts do not go to the most competitive bidder, but those with connections.

We had a 4 year old asphalt road that was in great condition just tar and chipped over. Looking into who did the work revealed that it was the highway dept. In the areas cousin who received thousands of dollars to ruin an asphalt road.

We need to focus less on the initial cost of a project like this and at least think about the benefits.

 

[WelshBloke]

Yes, all of the above is probably true. As I said I am not advocating for these roads. I do, however, admire the forward thinking behind them, and think that conceptually there may be ideas here worth implementing or at least seriously exploring.

Definitely agree with the bolded.

I'd love to replace my drive with them just for the outdoor disco possibilities. :$

 

[halik]

You must be completely naive if you think roads are about anything other than awarding huge government contracts to buddies, campaign supporters, and family members.

At least in Illinois the contracts do not go to the most competitive bidder, but those with connections.

We had a 4 year old asphalt road that was in great condition just tar and chipped over. Looking into who did the work revealed that it was the highway dept. In the areas cousin who received thousands of dollars to ruin an asphalt road.

We need to focus less on the initial cost of a project like this and at least think about the benefits.

Considering I've yet to see a modular road offered to private property / private driveway/ parking lot etc it's safe to say your argument is void.

 

[waggy]

rolf.

I can't see this being done anytime in our lifetime. The cost alone would be staggering. not to mention the amount of electricity it would produce would be wasted in 80% of the us. I won't even get into the silly idea of it keeping the road clear of snow lol.


I would hate to see the stuff after a month of traffic. all those semi-trucks at high speeds? then it rains? yeah..


cool idea. but not going to happen anytime in our lifetime.

 

[Imaginer]

Well, theoretically (and I'm not saying I buy it), these should be more durable and more easily repaired than actual roads, and if they were implemented nationally would presumably create more solar energy than all existing solar farms in the US presently, since the surface area would be so much larger. We as a nation are not particularly advanced or prolific in the implementation of solar energy, and in theory these would change that radically for the better. My major concern about them is that I can't see how the cost of implementation would not be absolutely staggering.

Do not forget the loss of transmission of power. There is a reason why HIGH VOLTAGE is pumped through the lines - of which a panel system may not generate enough high voltage to transmit for very long distances - coupled with the losses from the already trickling power of solar panels per area.

I believe that solar, is a complementary source of power - not a replacement. It can easily ease usage from other resources but it is in my opinion a fools game to solely rely on it - either due to constant demanded loading, transmission, efficiency from weather and environmental conditions - and most importantly in any electrical generation that is fickle as solar/wind - STORAGE.

 

[Imaginer]

Also, one needs to compare with current lifetime costs, logistics, and compatibility with road infrastructures and the current road lifetimes to this solution's heavy upfront costs (and more complex resource consumption in materials and manufacture to implementation).

The FAQ states 20 years, but due to the electronics, it may last LESS than that. Heat and sun does take their toll on these things and electronics left in extreme sunny environments (where solar works well) would burn up quicker. Conventional roads, possibly in my mind last just as long if not the replacement costs over time is significantly cheaper - due to using the simplest and cheapest of material - rock and rock aggregate.

No mention of how this would handle of the changing of inclines or curvatures (roads are not ideally flat without incline or angle).

Plus, with in place simple reflectors and vehicles having headlamps anyways, the lighted roads by LEDs becomes moot for an expensive implementation with not much of an increase practical-wise. I can possibly see this as dynamically shifting lanes for road work or accidents, but considering our current TRAFFIC REPORTING system isn't reporting conditions up to par and is delayed - a timely communication is still far off for such purposes.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I think these would be more cool for indoor or residential applications. I could see doing a deck or driveway with this, or even indoors if there's lot of windows. Think, an extended version of those solar lawn lights people put down. Obviously they'd only really work in summer. Though if you wanted to you could just shovel and scrape right down then use a broom to brush snow off. I just can't imagine doing that for entire roads though.

If I could buy them for cheap I would consider them for fun.

 

[_Rick_]

Well, I'll chime in with some of the evil blockers/showstoppers.

First: Glass as a driving surface. Traction or transparency, chose one. Especially wet conditions, where the uneven surface, and road curvature/camber allows for the water to drain, would make a glass surface unsuable.
Glass is prone to scratching, which reduces transparency. Cars drive on gravel roads, dirt gets blown on the road, and while I suppose you don't need to put a layer of traction enhancing gravel on top in winter, you also get a layer of dust. Add moving vehicles, and you'll lose efficiency of the generating part quickly, because the surface gets scratched up quickly.
Cost of glass, while "made out of trash" is still very high, especially precision panes of the required thickness. The energy required to shape glass is immense. Asphalt is mostly mode out of trash as well, so there's little advantage there.

Modular roads: Just no. You get bumps and sharp edges, which will quickly ruin both the surface and the driving comfort. When a heavy truck runs across such a bump at 50mph, the forces are immense. The corner will chip, and break sooner than later, causing further stresses. Replacing a module of that size is going to be quite expensive, compared to just resurfacing the road every few years.

Solar power: barely has positive ROI under ideal conditions. Add the complexity of the load-bearing structure, installation as a road, requirements on the glass, and any gains from solar power are negligible.

The fucking grid!:
Electrical grids are a huge challenge to get right. Decentralized power generation requires immense investment in power distribution networks, which even the current conglomerates are loath to invest in. Add transmission losses, and nothing short of a magic, free superconductor will do to give this any hope of being cheaper (in the long run) than centralized solar plants, and existing road tech.

Basically, it will work, if you have magic glass, which is both grippy and transparent and cheap, and flexible, and a continuous surface AND modular at the same time. And if you have enough sun to make it worthwhile for solar power, which makes the heating elements essentially redundant. And if you have magic superconductors and free magic stormdrains which will deal with the water.

Now, we can all dream, but none of this is going to work within the next few decades, if ever. We barely know how to built effective solar panels - the leap in tech required to turn those into effective solar panels and a road is like the leap in tech from having windmills and fire and turning it into a propeller airplane.

 

[Rakehellion]

Dumb idea. Solar panels last about 20 years and just barely pay for themselves in energy savings. These would cost several times more and produce a fraction of the energy.

And it takes an enormous amount of energy to heat a roadway, so that should be the last thing the electricity is used for.

 

[Rakehellion]

I'd prefer to see the panels over the roadways. It would be a good use of space and driving in the shade would save A/C energy.

A better idea is to put a solar panel on every rooftop and empty field. You know, like we're currently doing. But the problem with that is that they're enormously expensive and barely worth the expenditure.


Solar roadways is a horrible idea.

 

[Gooberlx2]

I love the idea, but I'd certainly like to see a proof of concept. Build a mile long loop and drive a heavy truck and some other traffic a couple hundred thousand miles on it.

Someone mentioned a long time ago in this thread about testing it out in private parking lots as well. I think that's a great idea. Seems like something Google should toy around with, coupled to their self-driving cars.

 

[darkxshade]

I get the logic behind the synergy of utilizing the vast space afforded by roadways and obviously if there's a net gain for doing it then we should but if we're actually going to put up solar panels, we may as well do it to all the rooftops first before we even do roads.

 

[DCal430]

You know, I apologize.

I have not been harsh enough here.

Go outside, one of you herp derps, and find an intersection where the asphalt ripples.

You know what what's from? The weight of vehicles dragging the pavement forward as they brake. That's the kind of forces we're talking about here. Does someone SERIOUSLY think this dude's little panels are going to cope with the stress of even cars and light trucks, let alone anything heavier?

'But, but, he drove a tractor on them!'

Holy fucking shit, are you full-goddamned-retard?

You know what makes a shitty road? Bricks and cobblestones. This is like a less durable version of that.

'But it could be more durable!'

You know what also makes a terrible road? Fucking iron. It's plenty durable, but riding on it is going to be torture and you won't have any goddamned traction.

We pave roads with what works. This shit...would not work. Ever.

The fact that this guy's grasp of reality is so tenuous, and that he is actually garnering attention for it, makes me want to go outside with a gun and an IQ test and start cleaning fucking house. Sweet fucking christ.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You have no qualifications to make any such assessment. You are nothing but an armchair expert with no real knowledge at all.

 

[DCal430]

This thread is full of armchair experts, those with no real knowledge passing judgement and giving their fake expert opinions. These are the people who are holding society back, and the real idiots.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

http://youtu.be/H901KdXgHs4

too expensive - cost of material glass alone to replace all the roads is 20 trillion dollars

too fragile - glass is soft material, this is entry level geology, simply won't hold up

unproven performance - good luck getting viable traction for all current road vehicles under all weather conditions, especially after years of wear and tear

LEDs going to be useless in the daytime on the roads


This technology makes the most sense on parking lots, but even there its flawed as most parking lots are covered up by cars during the daytime hours...solar canopies make so much more sense for such an application.

Other than that, this might find a niche for use on private drives, and pedestrian walk ways / public areas, but there's just no way its going to be a magic bullet that solves our energy problems.


So I come away with a couple of thoughts.

1. While I kind of like the idea for use of such a product for private drives and walk ways or public areas, I'm torn because the developers seem so very intent on pushing massive-scale road replacement, and thus I'm pretty put-off by that level of naivety and really lose confidence in the product as a result.

2. But on the flip side, maybe they had to sensationalize it to this degree to actually get enough support to where they'd even be able to scale up enough to actually produce enough of a product to be able to be realized at all and that the much smaller scale deployment is all they really intended for anyway.

 

[ImpulsE69]

For a bunch of "techie" people, many of you have no imagination. Some of your comments are downright closed minded and short sighted. It's like saying, COMPUTERS DON'T DO NOTHING BUT PLAY CHESS AND COST TOO MUCH AND ARE THE SIZE OF A ROOM!!! THEY WILL NEVER BE IN PEOPLES HOMES!!"

Of course there are hurdles to overcome, as with any tech. I agree solar..for the most part has seemed a bit trivial in terms of cost vs return, but that doesn't mean in the future it won't be better. Some of the grand ideas they have surrounding this are actually pretty good goals. The whole "it's glass" argument..well I'm pretty sure someone smarter than you has probably already thought about the issues with that part and how to get around it. Cost...well that one might be an issue, because our government is not very good at handling money, and that probably won't change in the future. What I would like to see is roadways that hold up better than what we have today. They are working on the same roads year after year after year.

 

[MongGrel]

Imagination is one thing, practical application is something else all together.

 

[_Rick_]

well I'm pretty sure someone smarter than you has probably already thought about the issues with that part and how to get around it. Cost...well that one might be an issue, because our government is not very good at handling money, and that probably won't change in the future.

As long as there's no extraordinary evidence to accompany the extraordinary claims, skepticism is a natural, logical reaction. Show me a peer reviewed study on tire-glass interaction, and I'll be more receptive to your claims.

As for money: At this point, this isn't even about up front costs, which are astronomical. Operating cost itself are doubtful to be a net positive over ashpalt/cement roads. Up front costs are so ridiculously high, that the money could be spent on so many other, more profitable (for society) ventures, that it's a ridiculous notion to even entertain.

A proper distributed power grid alone would cost "only" a few tens to hundreds of billions, and would allow massive improvements in power efficiency.
Superconducting main lines - another few hundred billions (yeah, maintenance...) but tangible improvements in transmissive efficiency. You could probably even reduce the voltage on those lines and get rid of transformation losses at transforming stations.

Those projects are also pipe dreams, by the way. But an order of magnitude less unrealistic than solar freaking roadways.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

For a bunch of "techie" people, many of you have no imagination. Some of your comments are downright closed minded and short sighted. It's like saying, COMPUTERS DON'T DO NOTHING BUT PLAY CHESS AND COST TOO MUCH AND ARE THE SIZE OF A ROOM!!! THEY WILL NEVER BE IN PEOPLES HOMES!!"

Of course there are hurdles to overcome, as with any tech. I agree solar..for the most part has seemed a bit trivial in terms of cost vs return, but that doesn't mean in the future it won't be better. Some of the grand ideas they have surrounding this are actually pretty good goals. The whole "it's glass" argument..well I'm pretty sure someone smarter than you has probably already thought about the issues with that part and how to get around it. Cost...well that one might be an issue, because our government is not very good at handling money, and that probably won't change in the future. What I would like to see is roadways that hold up better than what we have today. They are working on the same roads year after year after year.

Yes, and that's a major reason why solar panel roads are ridiculous without a proof of engineering showing that it is viable to hold up to the abuse. So far all they've shown is that they can slowly drive a small tractor over their prototypes. Awesome. Time to write that $20,000,000,000,000 check.

When something sounds too good to be true, it generally is. If we really wanted to solve our energy problems right now, we could dump a tiny fraction of the money it would take to get solar roads (that likely won't work) on nuclear instead (which is proven to work and be safe, especially modern tech), nutting up like France did. But the phobia behind nuclear in this country is so strong that people are willing to attach themselves even to the faintest of pipe-dreams like solar roads. Heck, we'd even be much better off dumping a fraction of that money into clean-coal tech. We're not at a crisis for electrical production, we have plenty of coal, the problem is producing clean energy, and solar roads simply cannot be as cost effective as other alternatives, its just not worth it, and that's before considering whether or not it would even work.

 

[Rakehellion]

For a bunch of "techie" people, many of you have no imagination. Some of your comments are downright closed minded and short sighted.

It's a bad idea. Some ideas are just bad and there's no incentive to sugarcoat it.

 

[K1052]

It is an interesting idea but I'd like to see a small scale real (piece of actual road in use) world test to address the feasibility issues. With currently technology it is much to expensive to deploy but with further advances in materials it may be a possibility.