Video on Pentagon to be released

[episodic]

Originally posted by: Meuge
Oh for the love of God...

Think of what you're saying... just follow the logical chain.

Key Aim (let's call it X): damage the pentagon in order to claim terrorism, etc...
^ This is an assumption in and of itself, but let's (for the sake of the argument) leave it as an axiom.

The conspiracy theorists are saying that this is what happened:
1. A conspiracy to damage the Pentagon commences
2. A conspiracy to fire some object that is not an airliner at it commences
3. A missile (or a UFO according to some claims) crashes into the Pentagon.
4. A collossal conspiracy, involving EVERY person inside the Pentagon at the time (?!), as well as EVERY person within the U.S. air command and ALL missile monitoring stations... required in order to conceal this fact and make it LOOK like an airliner commences.

Yet this conspiracy on an unprecedented scale manages to overlook what seems (from the conspiracy nut videos) like a million obvious clues that such an attack would leave, and which would undoubtedly lead to the outing of this conspiracy.
5. Claims of terrorism are made (the X is achieved)
6. After years, a video is released to quell the naysayers... yet this video, which could have (in the meantime) been altered to have Big Bird realistically crash into the Pentagon, seems to only prove (in the eyes of the conspiracy theorists) their previous claims.

If there are any of you, who don't see that this fails Occam's Razor AT EVERY STEP, you must be out of your minds.

If you can't see that there is absolutely NO NEED for 2-4, in order to get to 5, then you lack any kind of logical thinking.

Why won't they release the hi-resolution video from multiple sources. Occams Razor in practice - if people don't believe you - show them the evidence. Very simple.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: episodic
Why won't they release the hi-resolution video from multiple sources. Occams Razor in practice - if people don't believe you - show them the evidence. Very simple.

Maybe cause there isn't one?

And no, that's not Occam's Razor... more like a cry for help. Please consult an encyclopedia before using the term again.

 

[Aisengard]

Hey, conspiracy theorists: Get me the tapes from October 5th, 2003, 8:34 PM at your local gas station. Come on, I mean it's so easy.

 

[wazzledoozle]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Hey, conspiracy theorists: Get me the tapes from October 5th, 2003, 8:34 PM at your local gas station. Come on, I mean it's so easy.

After the attacks FBI agents went around and confiscated security tapes from all nearyby security systems. All this "new" video offers if footage of the building burning, which we have already seen. They HAVE THE TAPES. They have yet to release them.

Im not saying I believe the conspiracies, each side has their own good points. I need to see some wortwhile evidence to come to my own conclusion.

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/087.html

Freedom of information request to release the gas station and hotel footage. Denied, yet at the same time confirming they have the tapes.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: episodic
I also like how noone ever addressed the plane disintegrated totally yet they recovered almost all the bodies.

Tom Cruise may have had something to do with it.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Meuge
Oh for the love of God...

Think of what you're saying... just follow the logical chain.

Key Aim (let's call it X): damage the pentagon in order to claim terrorism, etc...
^ This is an assumption in and of itself, but let's (for the sake of the argument) leave it as an axiom.

The conspiracy theorists are saying that this is what happened:
1. A conspiracy to damage the Pentagon commences
2. A conspiracy to fire some object that is not an airliner at it commences
3. A missile (or a UFO according to some claims) crashes into the Pentagon.
4. A collossal conspiracy, involving EVERY person inside the Pentagon at the time (?!), as well as EVERY person within the U.S. air command and ALL missile monitoring stations... required in order to conceal this fact and make it LOOK like an airliner commences.

Yet this conspiracy on an unprecedented scale manages to overlook what seems (from the conspiracy nut videos) like a million obvious clues that such an attack would leave, and which would undoubtedly lead to the outing of this conspiracy.
5. Claims of terrorism are made (the X is achieved)
6. After years, a video is released to quell the naysayers... yet this video, which could have (in the meantime) been altered to have Big Bird realistically crash into the Pentagon, seems to only prove (in the eyes of the conspiracy theorists) their previous claims.

If there are any of you, who don't see that this fails Occam's Razor AT EVERY STEP, you must be out of your minds.

If you can't see that there is absolutely NO NEED for 2-4, in order to get to 5, then you lack any kind of logical thinking.

You are thinking in linear two dimensional terms. Someone much smarter then you can think three steps ahead with three dimensional thinking which most people lack.

All you did is prove them right. I won't even bother addressing your points because they are, while valid statements, constitute no conclusions.

I'm not saying there was a coverup or that a plane did not hit the Pentagon or that the WTC didn't fall along with building 7 all at once like a house of cards.

What I am saying is that you are ignoring things to make it suit your own beliefs. You are no better then a full blown conspiracy nut.

Now that's a fact.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Aelius

Originally posted by: Meuge
Oh for the love of God...

Think of what you're saying... just follow the logical chain.

Key Aim (let's call it X): damage the pentagon in order to claim terrorism, etc...
^ This is an assumption in and of itself, but let's (for the sake of the argument) leave it as an axiom.

The conspiracy theorists are saying that this is what happened:
1. A conspiracy to damage the Pentagon commences
2. A conspiracy to fire some object that is not an airliner at it commences
3. A missile (or a UFO according to some claims) crashes into the Pentagon.
4. A collossal conspiracy, involving EVERY person inside the Pentagon at the time (?!), as well as EVERY person within the U.S. air command and ALL missile monitoring stations... required in order to conceal this fact and make it LOOK like an airliner commences.

Yet this conspiracy on an unprecedented scale manages to overlook what seems (from the conspiracy nut videos) like a million obvious clues that such an attack would leave, and which would undoubtedly lead to the outing of this conspiracy.
5. Claims of terrorism are made (the X is achieved)
6. After years, a video is released to quell the naysayers... yet this video, which could have (in the meantime) been altered to have Big Bird realistically crash into the Pentagon, seems to only prove (in the eyes of the conspiracy theorists) their previous claims.

If there are any of you, who don't see that this fails Occam's Razor AT EVERY STEP, you must be out of your minds.

If you can't see that there is absolutely NO NEED for 2-4, in order to get to 5, then you lack any kind of logical thinking.

(1)You are thinking in linear two dimensional terms. (2)Someone much smarter then you can think three steps ahead with three dimensional thinking which most people lack.

(3)All you did is prove them right. I won't even bother addressing your points because they are, while valid statements, constitute no conclusions.

Now that's a fact.

Personal attacks: Check
Baseless Statements: Check
Openly ignoring logic and reason: Check
Sweeping conclusion with no supporting evidence: Check

 

[judasmachine]

I'm just surprised that so many just take the standard story and don't even question once. Americans are supposed to be skeptical of the government right? I'm not even saying I believe the conspiracy stories, I just find it silly how many people just eat the worm and ignore the hook.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
I'm just surprised that so many just take the standard story and don't even question once. Americans are supposed to be skeptical of the government right? I'm not even saying I believe the conspiracy stories, I just find it silly how many people just eat the worm and ignore the hook.

There is a not-so-fine line between healthy skepticism and utter insanity.

Wondering whether events of 9/11 were done with the knowledge and/or possibly approval of the government = skepticism (with a bit of paranoia)

Saying that a missile hit the Pentagon and WTC was demolished = insanity.

It's been proven time and again, that no large-scale conspiracy can ever be truly secret. To pull something like what these morons are proposing, there would have to be tens of thousands of people in on the con, as well as the Russians (do you really think that their satellites are not watching the Pentagon and would have photographed a missile?)

 

[wazzledoozle]

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/087.html

Scan of Freedom of information request documents to release the gas station and hotel footage of the pentagon attack. Denied, yet at the same time confirming they have the tapes.

The FBI needs to come clean about this, the footage they released proves nothing. The actual impact scene has been released before, and all it is, is one blurry white streak on a single frame. Impossible to come to any conclusions based on the "new" footage"

The government doesnt seem to have a problem telling us "well if you have nothing to hide"... and I think the same should damn well go for them.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: judasmachine
I'm just surprised that so many just take the standard story and don't even question once. Americans are supposed to be skeptical of the government right? I'm not even saying I believe the conspiracy stories, I just find it silly how many people just eat the worm and ignore the hook.

There is a not-so-fine line between healthy skepticism and utter insanity.

Wondering whether events of 9/11 were done with the knowledge and/or possibly approval of the government = skepticism (with a bit of paranoia)

Saying that a missile hit the Pentagon and WTC was demolished = insanity.

It's been proven time and again, that no large-scale conspiracy can ever be truly secret. To pull something like what these morons are proposing, there would have to be tens of thousands of people in on the con, as well as the Russians (do you really think that their satellites are not watching the Pentagon and would have photographed a missile?)

Not to play Devil's advcoate here, but the Russian spy satellites have been largely nonexistent in the last ten years. Their last three have fizzled out only recently - after having only been sent up in the past year alone. They are having a difficult time keeping them alive let alone launching new ones.

 

[destrekor]

howabout everyone shut up and what this video, straight from the pentagon.. its the second video listed on the DoD's website and its a much better video than the common one seen elsewhere (the first video listed on the website).
Pentagon Security Camera (Video2)
plain clearly visible at the 23-24 second mark. the first video all that can be seen is the nose cone, so i won't even bother posting that one. but this one its quite easy to tell its not a missile if you knew what a plane looks like.
for those that say its too small to be a plane, do remember the sheer size of the pentagon. the fuselage looks like the right size in comparison to the building.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: destrekor
howabout everyone shut up and what this video, straight from the pentagon.. its the second video listed on the DoD's website and its a much better video than the common one seen elsewhere (the first video listed on the website).
Pentagon Security Camera (Video2)
plain clearly visible at the 23-24 second mark. the first video all that can be seen is the nose cone, so i won't even bother posting that one. but this one its quite easy to tell its not a missile if you knew what a plane looks like.
for those that say its too small to be a plane, do remember the sheer size of the pentagon. the fuselage looks like the right size in comparison to the building.

cant see this as any clearer than anything posted before, its still just a splotchy white bit, and the pentagon isnt that huge, takes up alot of space but its not very tall

 

[ECUHITMAN]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Aimster
good

now end all the conspiracy 9/11 stories.

my doubt is put to rest with this video.

You had doubts before? The "missile hit the pentagon" is IMHO the weakest link in the whole tinfoil chain. This video won't change any tin-foilers minds.

There was a lot of evidence even without these videos (or lack there of) that Flight 77 hit the pentagon, but still there are inconsistencies.

First is why is this video that was over 5 years old just now released? They say it was because of the trial, but that doesn't make any sense. How would this video help or hurt the sentencing trial? The guy already admitted he was guilty, what more do you need? And again, where are the other videos? Why haven't they been released? What is it they show (or do not show) that would make the government want to hold them back?

It is because the government?s lack of presenting all evidence that feeds the conspiracy theorists.

 

[ECUHITMAN]

Originally posted by: destrekor
howabout everyone shut up and what this video, straight from the pentagon.. its the second video listed on the DoD's website and its a much better video than the common one seen elsewhere (the first video listed on the website).
Pentagon Security Camera (Video2)
plain clearly visible at the 23-24 second mark. the first video all that can be seen is the nose cone, so i won't even bother posting that one. but this one its quite easy to tell its not a missile if you knew what a plane looks like.
for those that say its too small to be a plane, do remember the sheer size of the pentagon. the fuselage looks like the right size in comparison to the building.

I would say that is hardly clear. All I see is a white tube with a possible tail fin just barely out of frame of the camera.

Look, I believe it to be a plane I am just saying that it is hardly clear and convincing evidence. In the end, this government is not smart enough or tuff enough to be able to control all information about this. Had this been a missile and Flight 77 never existed or was otherwise staged someone would learn pretty quickly that the people that were on 77 did not exist. In the end someone somewhere would leak something to the press about this being a hoax.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
This video doesnt actually show anything more of the actual impact, just a frame with a whtite blur, and then a fire. If they really wanted to debunk the "conspiracy theorists" they would release the footage they took from the hotel, the mini mart, and the freeway cameras all of which would have perfect smooth framerate video of the whole thing.

QFT

I also like how noone ever addressed the plane disintegrated totally yet they recovered almost all the bodies.

Planes smash into mountains - there is a debris field - they don't disappear. Especially engines.

I didnt hear about full bodies being recovered from the plane did you? If so where can I read about this? The most I heard about were bits and pieces of bone that were able to be DNA tested.

btw there are pictures from inside the pentagon that clearly shows a rotor blade and what is left of the engine, along with tire strut with burned out tires.

Anybody who thinks this is a missile is a loonbat.

 

[Aimster]

ok here is a question..

did anyone actually see an airplane hit the pentagon?

It happened during morning rush hour and you can clearly see the side of the pentagon that was hit from the highway and all the streets underneat.

I drive by that area every day. If a plane did in fact hit the pentagon there would be people who saw it.

if you have people who saw it then case closed.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: ECUHITMAN

Originally posted by: destrekor
howabout everyone shut up and what this video, straight from the pentagon.. its the second video listed on the DoD's website and its a much better video than the common one seen elsewhere (the first video listed on the website).
Pentagon Security Camera (Video2)
plain clearly visible at the 23-24 second mark. the first video all that can be seen is the nose cone, so i won't even bother posting that one. but this one its quite easy to tell its not a missile if you knew what a plane looks like.
for those that say its too small to be a plane, do remember the sheer size of the pentagon. the fuselage looks like the right size in comparison to the building.

I would say that is hardly clear. All I see is a white tube with a possible tail fin just barely out of frame of the camera.

Look, I believe it to be a plane I am just saying that it is hardly clear and convincing evidence. In the end, this government is not smart enough or tuff enough to be able to control all information about this. Had this been a missile and Flight 77 never existed or was otherwise staged someone would learn pretty quickly that the people that were on 77 did not exist. In the end someone somewhere would leak something to the press about this being a hoax.

well it is true that it may not be clear, but it is visible and i can see markings that are evenly spaced apart, what i would say would be windows of the fuselage.
and yes, conspiracies require great work by the government to cover up, and that requires completely silent people. the politicians can be too corrupt and too easily swayed to ever keep such things secret.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: techs
No matter what is on the tapes the very fact that they were kept from the public indicates there was some reason the government didn't want the public to see them.
When the tapes are revealed and if they show nothing that would indicate why they were kept secret, the obvious question, and its perfectly reasonable, is, was there something on the tapes that the government didn't want us to see and was it edited out.
You don't need to be a conspiracy nut to have extreme reservations as to why the heck the government would fight to keep these tapes secret and when forced to release them nothing of real interest is on them.

Shining your tinfoil hat huh??

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: morkinva

Originally posted by: Nocturnal
I wonder if this will shut up the conspiracy theorists or if it will only fuel their fire even more?

Wonder no longer!

Boy that video was really a slam dunk! Hahahahahah best laugh I've had in quite awhile LMAO.

Anyhow, even if this single point is conceded, there still remains about 145 other points which have not. So if this 'video' (a couple of frames) turns out to be correct, this answers less than 1% of outstanding questions and problems with the official conspiracy theory. Please watch the second video link in my sig and educate yourselves, ignorami!

Your parents must be proud of you.

You post a new story yesterday about the Israeli palestinian issue claiming the US press is being duped and used by the Israelis........which gets locked!

Of course that should have been my clue you were one of those tinfoil peeps....

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Aimster
ok here is a question..

did anyone actually see an airplane hit the pentagon?

It happened during morning rush hour and you can clearly see the side of the pentagon that was hit from the highway and all the streets underneat.

I drive by that area every day. If a plane did in fact hit the pentagon there would be people who saw it.

if you have people who saw it then case closed.

There are a couple hundred accounts of people seeing a plane hit the pentagon... and a few dozen accounts of people seeing the specific airline markings on the plane.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Aimster
ok here is a question..

did anyone actually see an airplane hit the pentagon?

It happened during morning rush hour and you can clearly see the side of the pentagon that was hit from the highway and all the streets underneat.

I drive by that area every day. If a plane did in fact hit the pentagon there would be people who saw it.

if you have people who saw it then case closed.

There were lots of witnesses who reported a large airliner striking the pentagon.

Besides, if it was a missile, what happened to the airplane and all the people on it? It's at area 51, preparing for the next moon landing hoax, I suppose.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Gibsons

Originally posted by: Aimster
ok here is a question..

did anyone actually see an airplane hit the pentagon?

It happened during morning rush hour and you can clearly see the side of the pentagon that was hit from the highway and all the streets underneat.

I drive by that area every day. If a plane did in fact hit the pentagon there would be people who saw it.

if you have people who saw it then case closed.

There were lots of witnesses who reported a large airliner striking the pentagon.

Besides, if it was a missile, what happened to the airplane and all the people on it? It's at area 51, preparing for the next moon landing hoax, I suppose.

I wondered about the moon thing for a while, given that nobody has been back since. What put it over the top for me, was the fact that if it had been faked, other countries would know about it, since they'd have been able to track the spacecraft and also monitor communications. I am sure that someone (read: USSR) would have released this information to discredit the U.S.

 

[alchemize]

Conspiracy theorists love to ignore the 98% of the witnesses that say "a large jetliner" and focus on the 2% of witnessess that say "It was LIKE a missile hit it" or "I saw what looked LIKE a small jet".

Frankly I could care less about the tinfoilers that say we didn't land on the moon, the illuminati control everything, etc. They are illogical idiots but it keeps them entertained, at least they aren't out molesting kids.

What irks me about 9/11 tinfoilers is the huge amount of disrespect shown to the victims families and the first-responders/military/air traffic controllers/pilots and airline crew by perpetuating these myths. For this, they are pond scum.

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: MadRat
Not to play Devil's advcoate here, but the Russian spy satellites have been largely nonexistent in the last ten years. Their last three have fizzled out only recently - after having only been sent up in the past year alone. They are having a difficult time keeping them alive let alone launching new ones.

I think you you should check your sources. The Russians have about 60 military/security satellites in orbit. How many of them are "spy" satellites is a different question, but I doubt that none are. Some of their high-resolution satellites are dead, but not all. They just launched an Israeli spy satellite, an Iranian "remote sensing" (yeah right) satellite, and I believe a European one. They are not short of launching capabilities, that's for sure.