ch33zw1z
Lifer
- Nov 4, 2004
- 39,721
- 20,277
- 146
xj0hnx
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2007
- 9,262
- 3
- 76
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
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None needed. From what I read, he's placing the blame on the higher ups, not SWAT officers in the field. This has been one of my points all this time: the cops are just doing their jobs.
xj0hnx
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2007
- 9,262
- 3
- 76
bamacre
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2004
- 21,029
- 2
- 81
So what? They have their orders and they followed it. If the poster feels it is irresponsible for them to enter in such and such an environment, then the beef lies with the higher ups, not the cops in the field. But, alas, this is pure speculation and academic. Therefore, it isn't worth further discussion.
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
Brovane
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2001
- 6,333
- 2,532
- 136
Actually US Military soldiers are taught to obey any lawful order. There is a expectation that unlawful orders will be refused.
In United States v. Keenan, the accused (Keenan) was found guilty of murder after he obeyed in order to shoot and kill an elderly Vietnamese citizen. The Court of Military Appeals held that "the justification for acts done pursuant to orders does not exist if the order was of such a nature that a man of ordinary sense and understanding would know it to be illegal."
Yes, yes we are. That is exactly what I said ::rolleyes. Everything that could be discussed has been discussed. I'll see myself out of this thread.
xj0hnx
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2007
- 9,262
- 3
- 76
Dummy, these aren't "cops in the field", these guys don't hand out parking tickets. Each and every single person that went into that house with a gun in their hand has a responsibility to know everything possible about the inside of the house, and the situation they were walking into. Not taking the time to gather additional intel on the situation is indeed, their fault, as a group, and as individuals, and none of your cheer leading will change that.
Brovane
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2001
- 6,333
- 2,532
- 136
Unfortunately the Police Office who pointed a shotgun at a kid and then blew his head off was never held accountable for his actions. Unfortunately this lack of accountability, happens all to often with SWAT team's in general. Oops we killed a innocent person. If we accidentally killed a innocent person we would be arrested and looking at jail time, even if it was only a Manslaugher charge. However because they are police it is ok? They have never been held accountable for there actions for so long that there is some that feel that they can do whatever they want. Lets go in and blow away a dog, why, because they can get away with it. They feel that they are above the law that civilians have to follow. I can perfectly understand why some of them feel that. They never question, is this right thing to do? Could this situation of been handled better?
They kill a innocent person and feel that it is perfectly justifiable because they where just doing there job. I talked to one cop once who told me that in his department, in a multiple shooting incident there was a unwritten rule that whoever didn't fire there gun got to do all the paperwork. Why do you think we hear so many stores about cops firing 50+ rounds at one person. I have personally meet some great cops. However there is more and more a feeling of us against them.
Whenever there is a suggestion of reigning in the law there is outcry from the police unions that we are going soft on crime. I think a lot of people don't have to be bleeding heart liberals to start questioning the effectiveness and purpose of the current tactics of the drug war. A lot people would question the amount of times that SWAT is used to serve search warrants for even relativelly minor crimes. It doesn't take much to start questioning the purpose of shooting people's pets during warrants. We questions is there a better way? The police never question it because they can get away with it. There is never a lot of soul searching, was it necessary to point a shotgun at a kid and blow his head off? They never question using heavily armed SWAT for simple warrant searches.
It is incidents like this that start making people question the police and really question if these heavy handed tactics are right. Even in War the US military is learning that heavy handed tactics are not always the right tactics when dealing with a urban environment. One of my co-workers is a Reserve Marine Gunny Sgt involved in Civil Affairs with Tours in Iraqi and Afghanistan. When he was in Iraqi, he was the guy that would come in and try to repair the image of the US military after a raid. Try to make right what damage the innocent suffered after the Marines had come through. Who does the same after a SWAT comes through? Who makes right what damage the innocent suffered? Who ever apologizes for making a mistake?
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
Wow, I heard about this but didn't see it until now. Absolutely shocking stuff. They entered the private residence of the suspect and opened fire within 9 seconds...!!! Like someone else said in this thread...it would take me more time than that to walk from my room, put on something decent, then check who is knocking on the door.
I have owned plenty of dogs in my life...from what I could hear in that video...neither of the two dogs showed any sign of aggression. Sure, they were barking, which is to be expected given that someone was banging on the door in the middle of the night. There was a lot of crying (you know after being shot), but no growling at all. And the fact that the cop may have completely missed shooting a pitbull behind a gate when there was absolutely no commotion at all other than the SAWT team themselves...pathetic. They are so lucky that the shot missed and hit the other little dog and not the poor little boy.
Narmer, you have a completely ignorant view of drugs and for you to not see a problem in any of this is just scary. I don't know where you live, but you know those neighbors of yours...the 6 or so houses surrounding yours? Don't be surprised if a couple of them smoke pot...maybe even regularly. And those people are probably very productive members of society, professionals, probably more successful than you are. It would be so unfortunate it if the cops were to raid one of their residences and mistakenly raided yours instead, shot first, and asked questions later (you know the higher ups gave them the wrong address or something, totally not their fault).
I have owned plenty of dogs in my life...from what I could hear in that video...neither of the two dogs showed any sign of aggression. Sure, they were barking, which is to be expected given that someone was banging on the door in the middle of the night. There was a lot of crying (you know after being shot), but no growling at all. And the fact that the cop may have completely missed shooting a pitbull behind a gate when there was absolutely no commotion at all other than the SAWT team themselves...pathetic. They are so lucky that the shot missed and hit the other little dog and not the poor little boy.
Narmer, you have a completely ignorant view of drugs and for you to not see a problem in any of this is just scary. I don't know where you live, but you know those neighbors of yours...the 6 or so houses surrounding yours? Don't be surprised if a couple of them smoke pot...maybe even regularly. And those people are probably very productive members of society, professionals, probably more successful than you are. It would be so unfortunate it if the cops were to raid one of their residences and mistakenly raided yours instead, shot first, and asked questions later (you know the higher ups gave them the wrong address or something, totally not their fault).
fallout man
Golden Member
- Nov 20, 2007
- 1,787
- 1
- 0
You clearly hate dogs because they instantly perk up their ears and scurry away from you every time you pass wind. Everyone knows this.
Hey Narmer. Take your mouth out from around the cocks of the swat team for a second, and wrap it around this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XmjNxKOQvg&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XmjNxKOQvg&feature=player_embedded
xj0hnx
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2007
- 9,262
- 3
- 76
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
- 616
- 126
ch33zw1z
Lifer
- Nov 4, 2004
- 39,721
- 20,277
- 146
So much for protect and serve. If it's the way you think it is, time for me to buy a gun and plan on protecting myself and my family from a misinformed police force.
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146024&page=4
the attitude of the cops on that forum about this incident are disgusting
the attitude of the cops on that forum about this incident are disgusting
Disgusting? That's why they're police and you're a bag of meat.
and that judge is a douche. These things happen all the time in NYC and I don't see any outrage. I guess since it's 'middle america' this wasn't ok...
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OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
- 36,410
- 616
- 126
that forum has my blood boiling. most of those fools in there have a clear contempt towards the citizens they are serving and not only that give off a arrogant above the law attitude.
It's not that. Day in, day out, they put their lives on the line to protect and serve. What do they get in return? Contempt and hostility. Not from everyone, just smart-asses and the younger generation who grew up on drugs and rap. One of my uncle is an FBI agent. The shit he's told me he's seen would make any of you smart-asses's blood curl. Just as well because being police isn't for everyone.
Bag of meat?
I'm the contractor who was responsible for migrating all of the Government of Pakistan's most important website infrastructure to the US during the beginning of the Iraq war. At the time Pakistan had 2 T3 lines serving their entire country, and because Pakistan aligned themselves with the US, their government, finacial, and military websites became targets, and a single DDOS attack of over 100Mbps from outside of pakistan would cripple their entire country.
I worked with the government to migrate all of these targets to the US, secure them, monitor then, manage them, etc. It was $6million+ worth of contracts. Sites included their most top secret military sites. I worked closely with the FBI amost daily through the process. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm not just a bag of meat, and I'm not intimidated by the job police officers do. I highly respect them, but it's out of their "service" to the public.
I have friends that are cops. It's not like there is this huge divide between the world of cops and us common folk. Even in times that I've been arrested, I've always been absolutely respectful to police officers. Yes sir. Yes sir. Yes sir. I know they are just doing their jobs and I have to give them to benefit of the doubt that they aren't profiling me or going to abuse my civil liberties. I've never once been harassed by a police officer because I never disrespect them.
On the same note, I wouldn't mind taking a mag light to the knee caps of the cops in that video and some of the cops on that forum. Their attitudes are disgusting.
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