Video Editing/ Rendering build

[Sp12]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2702/4

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/147?vs=47

You are showing the most expensive EE part ever made that doesn't even work on the consumer LGA 775 socket. The 980X retails for $1000 or less at Frys and will drop when the 990X arrives.

Sorry, I just googled Core 2 extreme and got that as my first result. Have you seen the i7 extreme 965? Still 930 or so dollars.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...og_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDEQ8wIwAg#

How so? Phenom II competes clock for clock with Kentsfield, which came out in 2006.

False: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/53?vs=85 That's vs. a K10. Phenoms typically can clock higher as well, and come at higher clocks by default. That still leaves that first benchmark comparison where the X6 offers better price/performance than the i7.

You can't assume Bulldozer will work with AM3, so until it's confirmed you can't say socket AM3 gives an upgrade path.

Fair enough, it's not officially confirmed.

Weren't you just talking about bang/buck? He would be spending $160 for a 64GB drive versus $60 for a 750GB. Also, Anand had that drive and it bricked itself.

Yes, and an SSD is definitely one of the biggest bangs possible with that buck. He had a preshipping version of said drive.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3812/the-ssd-diaries-crucials-realssd-c300/9

If you'd like to continue discussing the benefits of a P2 vs. an i7 system, please send me a PM so we can avoid clogging up another thread.

 

[Davidh373]

Wow, you guys really went at it last night. I looked at 3 different sites that showed the X6 beating out the 930 in everything (if not within a few points). The only thing it wrecked the X6 in is compressing files, 3D rendering, and barely gaming (which is not the primary use of this WORKSTATION). I own the 920, and the 930 is just a overclocked 920. I've calculated out the extra expenses of the 1366 platform and it is certainly NOT worth it. Thanks for trying though fanboy .

 

[Sp12]

Hey david, I have found confirmation that you will have an upgrade path to bulldozer:

http://www.guru3d.com/news/amd-uncovers-bulldozer-details-on-august-24th/:o

 

[Davidh373]

Hey david, I have found confirmation that you will have an upgrade path to bulldozer:

http://www.guru3d.com/news/amd-uncovers-bulldozer-details-on-august-24th/:o

Bulldozer looks fantastic. WHEN CAN I GET ONE!? .

 

[Davidh373]

By the way WaitingForNehalem, Bulldozer will feature 8 cores... where the 990X will still only have 6. Even if it has hyper threading to boost it's multi-threaded app performance, that is still VERY limiting. Aside from these facts is the fact that you are somewhat right, Intel's performance is the best, but right now we are working with a budget and your build surpasses the budget while sacrificing the SSD, and 500GB of hard drive space (of which our company already has around 600GB after 4 months) and 2GB ram... the processor performance upgrade will create many other performance problems if we stick to the budget (of which we HAVE TO.) We have many other things to buy.

Another thing about the 990X is it will be $1000. If i'm going to spend $1000 on a processor i'll be getting a Xeon, not a gaming processor. Intel's gaming processors are (for the most part) a repackaging of the Xeon chips BUT, Xeons have motherboards that go beyond X58 and have support for 144GB ram. Also, the heat generated from such a chip and the instability the 990X would cause me due to the OBSCENELY unnecessary overclock is also a fallback. I have no need for intel's gaming processor with this build. A Xeon would be nice. If you feel so inclined you are welcome to find me a Xeon build with at least a Bloomfield chip @ 2.66Ghz, a 460, and 6GB with an SSD and 2 1TB hard drives for $1800 including 2 monitors, a Blu Ray drive and speakers but I guarantee you won't find that for less than $100 over budget.

 

[Davidh373]

Alright, so an Intel Xeon (i7 Xeon) build is $3761.23 with all the software we need (Windows 7 x64 Pro, Adobe Production Premium), but this does not grant enough space for the $400 lighting kit we need. The non-Bloomfield Xeon (The real Xeon) is far too expensive to be realistic right now.

There is over $200 left from the AMD build @ $3481.53. Considering my Video Encoding is going to be better on this than the fake Xeon I think I'm going with this. The only non-consumer repackage of the Xeon is $1000< and the motherboard is ~$400 so I think I'm best off going with AMD because it actually fits my budget without sacrificing any other nice performance features. We will likely upgrade to Xeon machines when we get to a higher level of need. Right now my stock 920 and the soon to be X6 workstations will do us fine for now.

Benchmarks for i7 930 vs. Phenom II X6

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/04/27/amd-phenom-ii-x6-1090t-black-edition/1

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

http://www.guruht.com/2010/04/phenom-ii-x6-1055t-vs-x6-1090t-vs-core.html

http://cipuci.blogspot.com/2010/05/phenom-ii-x6-1090t-vs-core-i7-930.html

In some of these benchmarks it will show the i7 beating out the Phenom II X6 but it is in CALCULATIONS. You will notice Multimedia and Video encoding performance is MUCH higher in the X6, which will be the primary use of the computer.

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

Davidh373, I couldn't care less what you build. If you want a Phenom II then go for it.

 

[Sp12]

Davidh373, I couldn't care less what you build. If you want a Phenom II then go for it.

Well, out general hardware with you The whole point of this forum is to help people get the best hardware possible for their needs within their budget.

 

[gsellis]

Hmmmm... The better solution I found that I just don't have the money to implement is around the i7 860. I am using Avid Media Composer which means nVidia Quadro. The Quadro 1800 can be found new in the box in the $350+ range (ebay). It looks like it is going work with Barracuda too. So it is an option.

Also, check out Rostronics.com. Full kits at inexpensive prices (using Britek).

And do not underestimate your need for lots of drive space. Forget a SSD and get at least 1TB drives. I am to the point that I have to upgrade my 3 500GB drives because I am running too close to full. I hate having to remove projects that I might have to work on. SSD boots fast. Cool. I did that with Raptors on my previous system. But when you get down to it, spending an hour moving stuff around or deciding what to delete will kick all the saved time to the curb.

 

[mfenn]

And do not underestimate your need for lots of drive space. Forget a SSD and get at least 1TB drives. I am to the point that I have to upgrade my 3 500GB drives because I am running too close to full. I hate having to remove projects that I might have to work on. SSD boots fast. Cool. I did that with Raptors on my previous system. But when you get down to it, spending an hour moving stuff around or deciding what to delete will kick all the saved time to the curb.

You've completely missed the point. You don't put project files on the SSD. The goal is to keep your applications and scratch files on a separate spindle from the input and output files (virtual "spindle" in the case of an SSD).

 

[Davidh373]

You've completely missed the point. You don't put project files on the SSD. The goal is to keep your applications and scratch files on a separate spindle from the input and output files (virtual "spindle" in the case of an SSD).

Yeah, in the build I have 2 1TB drives beside the SSD. One used for secondary Apps (office and the occasional game or whatever) and the other the Captures, and other assets. The SSD will only have the OS and the Adobe software. I have not underestimated my friend's need for drive space. He has over 600 GB taken up after using my computer for 4 months, there is no question we'll need more drives one day as well.

It's also getting a $200 graphics card, not anywhere close to $350. When we have money for our next build we'll skip right past consumer Processors and Graphics and get all pro grade equipment (Xeons, Quadro FX cards) but for now we don't have cash for that.

 

[mfenn]

Yeah, in the build I have 2 1TB drives beside the SSD. One used for secondary Apps (office and the occasional game or whatever) and the other the Captures, and other assets. The SSD will only have the OS and the Adobe software. I have not underestimated my friend's need for drive space. He has over 600 GB taken up after using my computer for 4 months, there is no question we'll need more drives one day as well.

It's also getting a $200 graphics card, not anywhere close to $350. When we have money for our next build we'll skip right past consumer Processors and Graphics and get all pro grade equipment (Xeons, Quadro FX cards) but for now we don't have cash for that.

Yeah, you did things the right way, I was just commenting on gsellis's points.

 

[Modelworks]

If you need accurate color you can do what I and many others do , use a CRT monitor on the side to verify colors when needed. I use some mid range 22" LCDs for the main work but also keep a 21" sony trinitron that is calibrated for color. Before I finish up something I can pull the image over to the sony and tweak it to where I want it and be sure it is exactly as needed. You really have to spend a lot to beat a good CRT in color perception. Even studios like ILM and Rhythm and Hues still use them in the proofing departments.

 

[Davidh373]

If you need accurate color you can do what I and many others do , use a CRT monitor on the side to verify colors when needed. I use some mid range 22" LCDs for the main work but also keep a 21" sony trinitron that is calibrated for color. Before I finish up something I can pull the image over to the sony and tweak it to where I want it and be sure it is exactly as needed. You really have to spend a lot to beat a good CRT in color perception. Even studios like ILM and Rhythm and Hues still use them in the proofing departments.

Cool.

 

[Sp12]

If you need accurate color you can do what I and many others do , use a CRT monitor on the side to verify colors when needed. I use some mid range 22" LCDs for the main work but also keep a 21" sony trinitron that is calibrated for color. Before I finish up something I can pull the image over to the sony and tweak it to where I want it and be sure it is exactly as needed. You really have to spend a lot to beat a good CRT in color perception. Even studios like ILM and Rhythm and Hues still use them in the proofing departments.

Do you know of any site where I can purchase new CRT monitors? I'm looking for higher-end models.

 

[gsellis]

You've completely missed the point. You don't put project files on the SSD. The goal is to keep your applications and scratch files on a separate spindle from the input and output files (virtual "spindle" in the case of an SSD).

No, I did not. If you edit a lot of video, things get moved around. When you get stock libraries and multiple exports and kept disc images...

Fast OS/App load is not a critical when running a high mem system, the space is. And get a Raptor at 10K instead. Better bang for the buck. Fast boot is no longer a biggy. Systems stay on for weeks (and if you do a lot of render...)

But then again... my shortest projects are usually only 3 tapes... My current with DNxHD renders of HDV downres files has chewed up 200GB so far. And I only have an hour and a half down (only 4 tapes on this one).

 

[mfenn]

No, I did not. If you edit a lot of video, things get moved around. When you get stock libraries and multiple exports and kept disc images...

Fast OS/App load is not a critical when running a high mem system, the space is. And get a Raptor at 10K instead. Better bang for the buck. Fast boot is no longer a biggy. Systems stay on for weeks (and if you do a lot of render...)

But then again... my shortest projects are usually only 3 tapes... My current with DNxHD renders of HDV downres files has chewed up 200GB so far. And I only have an hour and a half down (only 4 tapes on this one).

Whaaa? Did you miss the part where David said that he had mechanical drives for the big stuff? You don't put that sort of thing on the SSD, so there is no more or less "moving around" than without an SSD.

The boot times of an SSD are nice, but that's not the critical factor. The point is that you want to put all of the normal disk activity (page files, scratch files, etc.) on to a separate (very fast) drive away from your assets, render targets, etc. When you're working on a big project, memory pages will get written out to disk in some form or another and you want those pages to be written to a separate, fast disk instead of making your other drives trash all over the place.

Oh and a Raptor is not very good bang for buck compared to an SSD, or even a fast 7.2K drive.

 

[Davidh373]

No, I did not. If you edit a lot of video, things get moved around. When you get stock libraries and multiple exports and kept disc images...

Whaa... you must be REALLY disorganized then... we always manage to capture our files to the same drive... and then after we are done we back it up manually to the othe drive of equal space...

Systems stay on for weeks you say!? Mine don't... maybe overnight... We aren't rendering feature films on one computer... that's just foolish...

We don't keep captures on the computer, we remove those after we are finished and we keep the tapes.

mfenn is right, before I started this thread I thought the same thing, but I was also out of the loop for a few months. I checked and I can get a 65GB SATA III SSD and a 1TB caviar Black for the same as a single SATA III 600GB velociraptor. It isn't all that expensive anymore.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Yeah, in the build I have 2 1TB drives beside the SSD. One used for secondary Apps (office and the occasional game or whatever) and the other the Captures, and other assets....

Here is the deal:

So yah got that SSD and you want to increase your disk I/O. With a single HDD for capture/output/storage from the SSD you are restricting your read/writes (not as much as with a single HDD for everything but I think you get my point). So here is what you do:

SSD (drive #1): OS/Apps
HDD (drive #2): Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #3): Output/Storage

Got that?

With your renders all your 'reads' come from #2 with your 'writes' to #3. You are not readin' and writin' to a single HDD.

With Premiere you may actually take it a step further:

SSD (drive #1): OS/Apps
HDD (drive #2): Video Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #3): Audio Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #4): Output/Storage

YOWSA!

And if you want to be the Baddest Dude on the Block:

SSD (drive #1): OS/Apps
HDD (drive #2 & #3 RAID): Video Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #4 & #5 RAID): Audio Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #6 & #7 RAID): Output
HDD (drive #8): Storage/Backups

The RAID is not a backup BUT should double your transfer rates, so ...

Double YOWSA!


As far as the dual- & tri-channel RAMs thang, fuggetaboudit. Dual channel gives at best a 5% speed increase in memory-intensive tasks --- I would surmise the same for tri-channel (until someone proves otherwise to me).

With the AMD arch, for each 10% you increase the speed of the NB/IMC, memory bandwidth is increased 3-4% and latency is reduced 3-4%.

From 2000MHz to 2400MHz is a 'slam-dunk' (simply change the multi from 10x to 12x with the clock at 200MHz). 'Enthusiasts' are now zooming past 3000MHz.

So 3x2gb is not the issue some would lead you to believe.

And consider the Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB at $55/pop for your capture/output drives to go along with your TB storage. They be smokin' (not in the literal sense - LOL) and will work great in RAID.




--

 

[mfenn]

Here is the deal:

So yah got that SSD and you want to increase your disk I/O. With a single HDD for capture/output/storage from the SSD you are restricting your read/writes (not as much as with a single HDD for everything but I think you get my point). So here is what you do:

SSD (drive #1): OS/Apps
HDD (drive #2): Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #3): Output/Storage

:thumbsup: This is what I was trying to get at. Very succinct.

 

[Davidh373]

Here is the deal:

So yah got that SSD and you want to increase your disk I/O. With a single HDD for capture/output/storage from the SSD you are restricting your read/writes (not as much as with a single HDD for everything but I think you get my point). So here is what you do:

SSD (drive #1): OS/Apps
HDD (drive #2): Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #3): Output/Storage

Got that?

With your renders all your 'reads' come from #2 with your 'writes' to #3. You are not readin' and writin' to a single HDD.

With Premiere you may actually take it a step further:

SSD (drive #1): OS/Apps
HDD (drive #2): Video Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #3): Audio Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #4): Output/Storage

YOWSA!

And if you want to be the Baddest Dude on the Block:

SSD (drive #1): OS/Apps
HDD (drive #2 & #3 RAID): Video Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #4 & #5 RAID): Audio Capture/Scratch
HDD (drive #6 & #7 RAID): Output
HDD (drive #8): Storage/Backups

The RAID is not a backup BUT should double your transfer rates, so ...

Double YOWSA!


As far as the dual- & tri-channel RAMs thang, fuggetaboudit. Dual channel gives at best a 5% speed increase in memory-intensive tasks --- I would surmise the same for tri-channel (until someone proves otherwise to me).

With the AMD arch, for each 10% you increase the speed of the NB/IMC, memory bandwidth is increased 3-4% and latency is reduced 3-4%.

From 2000MHz to 2400MHz is a 'slam-dunk' (simply change the multi from 10x to 12x with the clock at 200MHz). 'Enthusiasts' are now zooming past 3000MHz.

So 3x2gb is not the issue some would lead you to believe.

And consider the Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB at $55/pop for your capture/output drives to go along with your TB storage. They be smokin' (not in the literal sense - LOL) and will work great in RAID.




--

If only I had another $200 to throw into drives...

 

[Davidh373]

Might I ask what the fastest SSD around 60GB and $150 is? I'm thinking about upgrading my Velociraptor. My motherboard isn't SATA III, so between the two, as long as the performance or price isn't extremely outta whack either is fine.

 

[mfenn]

Might I ask what the fastest SSD around 60GB and $150 is? I'm thinking about upgrading my Velociraptor. My motherboard isn't SATA III, so between the two, as long as the performance or price isn't extremely outta whack either is fine.

OCZ Agility IHMO.

 

[Davidh373]

What about this since it is $150 on the dot?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233108

Write speed isn't necessarily a priority for single SSD systems is it?

 

[mfenn]

What about this since it is $150 on the dot?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233108

Write speed isn't necessarily a priority for single SSD systems is it?

Write speed is pretty much the most important thing about an SSD, because it is the hardest to get right. The Nova is an old Indilinx drive IIRC, and while they were good a year ago, they have been eclipsed by the Sandforce drives like the Agility 2 and Corsair Force.