Veterans groups blast proposed tea party cuts

[pcgeek11]

this is why budgeting should be a cold and dispassionate process.

we can't touch defense spending, think of the soldiers.
we can't touch education spending, think of the children.
we can't touch medicare spending, think of the poor.
we can't touch social security spending, think of grandma and grandpa.

it's exhausting.

As I said earlier:

For all that think they need to cut these benefits and have never served, well you need to shut the hell up as you don't have a clue.

These military people have earned these benefits.

Welfare is a hand out.

Grandma/Pa paid into social security. The government has pissed it away.

 

[nageov3t]

That is just too Stupid for me to even comment about. How long do you think we would last as a country without a military.

Go back to your parents basement.

you don't think congress would demand a complete withdraw if it was more than the sons of poor people dying in Afghanistan?

 

[pcgeek11]

you don't think congress would demand a complete withdraw if it was more than the sons of poor people dying in Afghanistan?

It isn't just the sons of poor people dying. Are you retarded?

No I don't.

 

[HendrixFan]

As I said earlier:

For all that think they need to cut these benefits and have never served, well you need to shut the hell up as you don't have a clue.

These military people have earned these benefits.

Welfare is a hand out.

Grandma/Pa paid into social security. The government has pissed it away.

Anyone who pays taxes has a say, or should, in how those taxes are spent. Total defense related expenditures are nearly a trillion dollars a year now, that is around $3000 per capita.

The annual budget for defense has doubled in the past decade, and should be cut in half to restore it to it's much more sane level.

I think for the most part the defense spending cuts should stay away from pensions/benefits. It wouldn't be right to take some of the perks away from those who signed up being told they would receive them. However, some of those perks are excessive and should not be allowed to continue for new recruits.

The nation has overspent for quite some time, and fiscal sanity has to be restored. Everyone will have to make sacrifices.

 

[feralkid]

Please keep Bachmann in front of TV cameras, thanks.

Alas, she may jump the shark prematurely.

 

[OutHouse]

Just like any other special interest group... "Don't touch mine."

We earned them.

 

[pcgeek11]

I think for the most part the defense spending cuts should stay away from pensions/benefits. It wouldn't be right to take some of the perks away from those who signed up being told they would receive them. However, some of those perks are excessive and should not be allowed to continue for new recruits.

What excessive perks do military members / retirees get?

Give us a list of what you think they are.

Have you ever been in the military?

I think I know the answer already.

 

[HendrixFan]

What excessive perks do military members / retirees get?

Give us a list of what you think they are.

Have you ever been in the military?

I think I know the answer already.

No I haven't been in the military, but as I said, my tax dollars go there. Military spending is currently $3000 per capita and the is the largest expense in our budget (SS and Medicare have incoming dollars to offset some of their expenditures).

One of my co-workers is marrying someone who enlisted to the marines. Her father is former military too. She tells me that once they get married the military will pay for her school, not just his. That seems excessive in light of the current budget situation. I wouldn't doubt there are more things like this that can be trimmed to cut costs.

The truth of the matter is that we as a country cannot afford all the luxuries we have been paying for. We have to pay for national defense, but we do not have to pay so much. Cuts are needed, and everyone should make sacrifices. I'm not suggesting cutting things that were promised to people already, just dropping those things for people just starting.

 

[Hacp]

No I haven't been in the military, but as I said, my tax dollars go there. Military spending is currently $3000 per capita and the is the largest expense in our budget (SS and Medicare have incoming dollars to offset some of their expenditures).

One of my co-workers is marrying someone who enlisted to the marines. Her father is former military too. She tells me that once they get married the military will pay for her school, not just his. That seems excessive in light of the current budget situation. I wouldn't doubt there are more things like this that can be trimmed to cut costs.

The truth of the matter is that we as a country cannot afford all the luxuries we have been paying for. We have to pay for national defense, but we do not have to pay so much. Cuts are needed, and everyone should make sacrifices. I'm not suggesting cutting things that were promised to people already, just dropping those things for people just starting.

Exactly. Cut cut cut. Slash, swipe, mangle! We have all these programs to support unproductive people because we feel sorry for them. Guess what? Feelings ever created jobs. Jobs are made when employers make money from hiring someone.

 

[Ackmed]

No I haven't been in the military, but as I said, my tax dollars go there. Military spending is currently $3000 per capita and the is the largest expense in our budget (SS and Medicare have incoming dollars to offset some of their expenditures).

One of my co-workers is marrying someone who enlisted to the marines. Her father is former military too. She tells me that once they get married the military will pay for her school, not just his. That seems excessive in light of the current budget situation. I wouldn't doubt there are more things like this that can be trimmed to cut costs.

The truth of the matter is that we as a country cannot afford all the luxuries we have been paying for. We have to pay for national defense, but we do not have to pay so much. Cuts are needed, and everyone should make sacrifices. I'm not suggesting cutting things that were promised to people already, just dropping those things for people just starting.

First off, Marines is always capitalized.

Secondly, you offered only one benefit. pcgeek11 asked for a list. It seems you do not know what you are talking about, so do not make comments like you did until you do.

 

[Linflas]

As I said earlier:

For all that think they need to cut these benefits and have never served, well you need to shut the hell up as you don't have a clue.

These military people have earned these benefits.

Welfare is a hand out.

Grandma/Pa paid into social security. The government has pissed it away.

While I agree with you that by serving in the armed forces you earn whatever benefits that service provides the poster you quoted is pretty much right on the mark. If we as a nation are not willing to place EVERYTHING on the table when discussing how to get the nations budget under control then nothing will change. And not that I think it matters at all I am a veteran and whenever there is a concrete bill that affects veterans and their benefits under consideration I will make my views known to my representatives.

 

[pcgeek11]

The false tales and wifes tales about the military go on and on...

1. The military active/retirees don't pay taxes. False
2. The military pay is more than civilian pay. False
3. The military get all their clothes and food free. False
4. Retired military get all free medical and dental. False
5. Military dependents get free health care and dental. False some is free and some isn't.

1. The active military and retirees all pay taxes just like anyone else.

2. Military pay is not even close to civilian pay for services rendered. Check and see how much it would cost you to send a civilian out to sea or in the field for 6 months to a year with zero contact with his family.

3. I paid for my uniforms in boot camp and all during the 20+ years I served. You do get fed on base if single and living in the barracks. Married you get an allowance for food but a lot less than it cost.

4. Retirees do get medical covered, but it has cost shares and deductibles that are paid by the individual. It only goes to age 65 then it is transferred over to medicare, unless you pay monthly premiums to continue coverage for life.

5. When on active duty dependent get free medical at military hospitals, dental is covered by and insurance Delta Dental for dependents, there are copays and deductibles. The service member gets all free while on active duty.

There are many misconceptions in the civilian world.

 

[Darwin333]

The false tales and wifes tales about the military go on and on...

1. The military active/retirees don't pay taxes. False
2. The military pay is more than civilian pay. False
3. The military get all their clothes and food free. False
4. Retired military get all free medical and dental. False
5. Military dependents get free health care and dental. False some is free and some isn't.

1. The active military and retirees all pay taxes just like anyone else.

2. Military pay is not even close to civilian pay for services rendered. Check and see how much it would cost you to send a civilian out to sea or in the field for 6 months to a year with zero contact with his family.

3. I paid for my uniforms in boot camp and all during the 20+ years I served. You do get fed on base if single and living in the barracks. Married you get an allowance for food but a lot less than it cost.

4. Retirees do get medical covered, but it has cost shares and deductibles that are paid by the individual. It only goes to age 65 then it is transferred over to medicare, unless you pay monthly premiums to continue coverage for life.

5. When on active duty dependent get free medical at military hospitals, dental is covered by and insurance Delta Dental for dependents, there are copays and deductibles. The service member gets all free while on active duty.

There are many misconceptions in the civilian world.

So what combination of spending cuts and revenue increases do you propose to close our $1.5T deficit?

 

[Mursilis]

A Veteran is a Veteran. Period.
Doesn't matter if you were a rifleman on the ground, flew jets, repaired ships, or peeled potatoes.

Funny, both my parents served during Vietnam, and neither believed themselves to be the same as combat vets. They were both lucky enough to be stateside while other guys (and a few women) were sleeping in mud, getting shot at, and not seeing loved ones for 12+ months or more. They were happy to get VA loans and the like when they got out, and never complained about not getting enough benefits. Likewise, I was a reservist during the first Gulf war, but wasn't called up for that conflict, and I'm not going to sit here and pretend I was some hero because I served with some people who were actually sent over. All service is not the same, and not all service involves tremendous sacrifice. Heck, when I graduated law school, I tried like heck to get back in as a JAG, and there were FAR more applicants than slots for them, because it was common knowledge that life as a military lawyer (unless you joined the USMC, who actually made you run, etc.) was a pretty good gig.

 

[Vette73]

First off, Marines is always capitalized.

Secondly, you offered only one benefit. pcgeek11 asked for a list. It seems you do not know what you are talking about, so do not make comments like you did until you do.

Here ya go...

Military Benefits by Status

Active Duty Military
Pay & Money, Military Tax Center, GI Bill, Financial/Legal Protection (SCRA),
Education Help, TRICARE, Discounts,
Civilian Job Search, Deployment Center ,
Family Support, Forms, Health Care, Installations, Insurance, Military Law, Relocation, Space A Travel, Transition Help,
VA Loans, More...

Reserve
Pay & Money, Drill Pay, GI Bill, VA Loans, Temporary Reserve TRICARE,
Military Tax Center, Deployment Center, Education Help, Family Support, Discounts,
Employment Protection (USERRA),
Employer Support (ESGR), Forms, Financial/Legal Protection (SCRA),
Civilian Job Search, Installations,
Military Law, Relocation, Space A Travel, Transition Help, TRICARE, More...

National Guard
Pay & Money, Drill Pay, GI Bill, VA Loans, Deployment Center , Military Tax Center, Education Help, Forms, Family Support,
Employment Protection (USERRA),
Employer Support (ESGR),
Financial/Legal Protection (SCRA),
Civilian Job Search, Discounts,
Installations, Military Law, Relocation,
Space A Travel, Transition Help, TRICARE,
More...

Veterans
Veteran's Benefits Act of 2003,
Military Tax Center, GI Bill, VA Loans, Appeals, Buddy Finder, Civilian Jobs,
Death & Burial, Disability, Discounts,
Education Help, Health Care,
Employment & Training, Forms, Insurance,
Reunions, Records Request, More...

Retirees
Concurrent Receipt, CRSC,
Appeals, Buddy Finder, Careers, Disability, Discounts, Education, GI Bill, Forms,
Health Care, Installations, Insurance,
Military Law, Pay & Money, Records,
Reunions, Military Tax Center,
Social Security, Space A Travel,
Survivor Benefits, TRICARE for Life,
VA Loans, Records Request, More...

Military Benefits by Topic
Pay & Money
All About Pay, Military Tax Center,
Enlisted Pay Charts , Officer Pay Charts, Retiree, COLA, BAH,
Reserve Pay Calculator, Special Pays,
Guard Pay Calculator, BAS, Pay Help,
Regular Military Compensation, More...

Education & Scholarships
Tuition Assitance, College Credit for Service, GI Bill, Why School?
Education on Active Duty,
Reserve/Guard Education, State Benefits ,
Scholarship Search, Dependents' Education, http://www.military.com/Careers/Education/1,13289,,00.html
Graduate School Center, Top-Up,http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent1/?file=college_credit
Military-Friendly School Finder,
More...

Finance Solutions
Auto Loans, Banking, Car Buying Tips,
Credit Education, Discounts, Home Buying, Home Refinancing, Insurance, Personal Loans, Military Taxes, VA Loans, More...



Click the more button if that is not enough for you.

I work Fed gov and know vets as I see their 214's and all their benifits cause they are not allowed to "double" dip for some.
My grandmothers first husband was a vet and my GM lived in Germany after ww2. I also looked into the military when I got out of college and know several that went in.
Yep an educated vet gets a LOT of benifits, more then most of them even know as they don't look.
So don't give the BS that vets are getting a short stick, they get a lot if they just apply, let alone all the benifits to those that are married/related to vets.

When we are TRILLIONS in debt ALL areas will need to be cut.
As already pointed out there is always someone that will lose something. So cut some from all.

 

[Mursilis]

Grandma/Pa paid into social security. The government has pissed it away.

So if I deposit $100 into a bank, does that mean I can ask for an unlimited amount back in a few years?

I always love these "I paid into the system!" arguments. I've paid taxes for quite a few years - when do I get my mansion, trust fund, and sports car?

 

[Mursilis]

You think the people who fight and get injured and die for us are a special interest group? :thumbsdown:

Not everyone fights/gets injured/dies. During my reserve time, the worst hardship I ever faced was getting up way too early on a weekend. But at least they always had a fresh pot of coffee brewing at the drill hall so you could have a cup o' joe while you were waiting to check in. I was in a field hospital unit, so treating people right was our business!

 

[pcgeek11]

Here ya go...

** A whole lot of shit was here **

Click the more button if that is not enough for you.

I work Fed gov and know vets as I see their 214's and all their benifits cause they are not allowed to "double" dip for some.
My grandmothers first husband was a vet and my GM lived in Germany after ww2. I also looked into the military when I got out of college and know several that went in.
Yep an educated vet gets a LOT of benifits, more then most of them even know as they don't look.
So don't give the BS that vets are getting a short stick, they get a lot if they just apply, let alone all the benifits to those that are married/related to vets.

When we are TRILLIONS in debt ALL areas will need to be cut.
As already pointed out there is always someone that will lose something. So cut some from all.

I asked for a list of "Excessive Benefits" that he felt should be cut so we could discuss them intelligently. Not so some jackass that doesn't know beans about serving in the military could copy and paste a list of benefits from a gov web site.

I never said anyone got a short stick. I said they DESERVE the benefits for the hardships they have endured. Most of those in favor of cutting " Veterans health care funding — along with a cut in disability compensation for veterans also receiving Social Security disability benefits " are stupid and have no idea what it takes to serve.

This post reinforces the statement above:
*****************************
Not everyone fights/gets injured/dies. During my reserve time, the worst hardship I ever faced was getting up way too early on a weekend. But at least they always had a fresh pot of coffee brewing at the drill hall so you could have a cup o' joe while you were waiting to check in. I was in a field hospital unit, so treating people right was our business!
*******************************

I am not saying nothing can be cut from the military budget. We need to be very careful of what is cut.

 

[Red Dawn]

sacred cows are how we got into this mess. I have no problem cutting vet benefits if it's deemed necessary and the cuts are reasonable.

but let's start with reforming social security and medicare, and cutting defense spending first.

Let's start by doing away with Tax cuts for the top 1%

 

[pcgeek11]

So if I deposit $100 into a bank, does that mean I can ask for an unlimited amount back in a few years?

I always love these "I paid into the system!" arguments. I've paid taxes for quite a few years - when do I get my mansion, trust fund, and sports car?

Just shut up and keep paying in so I can get mine in a few years.

Whipper snapper.

 

[Linflas]

Let's start by doing away with Tax cuts for the top 1%

Why? Are they somehow less deserving of their income than you are just because they have a lot more of it than you?

 

[Vette73]

I asked for a list of "Excessive Benefits" that he felt should be cut so we could discuss them intelligently. Not so some jackass that doesn't know beans about serving in the military could copy and paste a list of benefits from a gov web site.

I never said anyone got a short stick. I said they DESERVE the benefits for the hardships they have endured. Most of those in favor of cutting " Veterans health care funding — along with a cut in disability compensation for veterans also receiving Social Security disability benefits " are stupid and have no idea what it takes to serve.

This post reinforces the statement above:
*****************************
Not everyone fights/gets injured/dies. During my reserve time, the worst hardship I ever faced was getting up way too early on a weekend. But at least they always had a fresh pot of coffee brewing at the drill hall so you could have a cup o' joe while you were waiting to check in. I was in a field hospital unit, so treating people right was our business!
*******************************

I am not saying nothing can be cut from the military budget. We need to be very careful of what is cut.

Sounds pretty hippy liberal idea to me.

You do know that what you see on tv of a vet living in a trench for months is very rare now. Most have AC, computer access, game systems, etc... and that is for combat troops when back on camp/base. Most others are in "green" zones and have it even better.

I am sending people overseas right now in my job. I know where they are going and what they will be in for. The people i work with are the ones that take Military troops place when you see on TV polticians gleaming how we are pulling troops out of XYZ. Well when they pull out we pull in.

So not sure where you get this "DESERVE" as most rarly are put in any area you seem to think is the norm.

Oh and many of those getting disability benefits are not ones that lost limbs, have a dozen pins in their back, etc... its the ones that have a sore back, hay fever, etc... I also use to believe that 30%+ disability were hurt troops serving the US. When in fact the majority have some of the most nancy BS concerns like those I listed. Again, I see the forms I know what % they have and why, most are BS and block honest troops and others from jobs and benifits.

My point as most is EVERYBODY will have to get cuts. SS, Military are the biggest cost we have yet no one thinks they should be cut.

 

[Red Dawn]

Why? Are they somehow less deserving of their income than you are just because they have a lot more of it than you?

Hey it's for their own good if they don't want to end up like Marie Antionette.
They are in charge of the system and make sure that they continue to get a bigger piece of the pie so they have an unfair advantage.

 

[DietDrThunder]

One area of Veteran affairs that I feel should be cut is burials in National Cemeteries.
My dad served two years in the army and two years in the reserves in the late 1950's.
He voluntarilly signed up for the Army because he figured he'd be drafted anyway, so he went ahead and joined. He was stationed in Germany for the majority of the time and had taken tons of photos when sight seeing while off duty (Germany, France, Italy, Spain). I'm sure basic training wasn't fun, but for the most part, my dad seemed to have nice memories of being in the army (he was never shot at). From all the photos you'd think he was on vacation more than on duty.

Fast forward to 2010. My dad died from COPD after being a chain smoker for over 50 years. He told my mom he didn't want an expensive funeral and that he wanted to be buried in the National Cemetery. Cremation $1,600, burial in the National Cemetery with honor guard, $0 for us, I have no idea what the VA paid. I felt that this burial was wrong. I feel that only those who died or were injured defending this Country, or were career military should be buried in National Cemeteries for free. Others that served but were never in combat, or never came in harms way should have to pay something, even if it is a small amount, to be buried there.

Second, When my mom dies she is elegable to be buried right along side my dad in the National Cemetery. No honor guard, but still gets a burial spot. If she is not cremated, the VA will pay to have my dad moved to a plot next to hers. Cost of the burial and plot, $0 for her, cost to the VA, who knows?

Here is a general list of those that can be buried in the National Cemeteries.

a. Veterans and Members of the Armed Forces (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard)
b. Members of Reserve Components and Reserve Officers' Training Corps
c. Commissioned Officers, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
d. Public Health Service
e. World War II Merchant Mariners
f. The Philippine Armed Forces
g. Spouses and Dependents
h. Others

http://www.cem.va.gov/bbene/eligible.asp

 

[Phokus]

Why? Are they somehow less deserving of their income than you are just because they have a lot more of it than you?

LOL, a lot of them pay less as a percentage of taxes than i do. Top 400 taxpayers in 2007 had an effective tax rate of 16%

Yes, raise their fucking taxes.