Veganism contributes to Industrial Farming

[MrMatt]

So my gf's a vegan, and I'm ok with it, but I find most of the logic behind BEING a vegan to be complete horse-shit.

So let?s say you?re a vegan, you say you don?t want to hurt animals, and you want them to be treated with respect. But what you?re actually doing is contributing to industrial farming, and here?s why. As a consumer, you have choices about where to buy from. There are local organic free-range farms where the dairy cows aren?t cramped up and mistreated, and the egg-laying chickens are allowed free range as well. Then there are industrial farms where conditions are deadly, toxic, and absolutely horrid for the animals.

The problem is that industrial farms are crushing small local farms and forcing them into bankruptcy one after the other. Now as a vegan, you scream about wanting animals to be treated better. But you have these local farms where they ARE treated better. These local farms need your help, but as a consumer you?re doing the whole passive-aggressive-I?m-morally-superior-to-you vegan thing, and actually keeping your dollar in your pocket. Unfortunately the type of people that would buy from a local organic free-range type farm are in large part choosing instead to be vegan. So by sitting on the sidelines so to speak you?re not supporting the very farms that embody the ideals you claim to support, and allowing them to be continually raped by industrial farms.

Thoughts? I'm thinking of sending this to my gf to see how she reacts.


Edit: For clarification, yes it's nice that some people shop for produce at local farmers markets. That's great, it really is. But no one is saying that they shop there because industrial farms harm plants. Many vegans I know avoid dairy/eggs because they say that industrial farms are cruel. There's an alternative to them; local farms where animals are free-range. Most dairy farms are NOT producing large enough amounts of produce, so while it's good to buy local produce, it doesn't apply to my argument.

 

[IEC]

Well, a lot of them think the ends justify the means, so what's the difference to them in the end when the poor furries get killed?

/sarcasm

 

[MrMatt]

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Well, a lot of them think the ends justify the means, so what's the difference to them in the end when the poor furries get killed?

/sarcasm

lol I agree, but if they don't want animals getting killed, just be vegetarian, and buy dairy & eggs from local organic farms.

 

[silverpig]

Your logic fails.

Did you do anything to stop the genocide in Rwanda? No? Well then by your logic your sitting on the fence contributed to it.

My argument against veganism is that they can't survive without having food shipped to them from all over the world. Thai and Indian rice, wheat from here, potatoes from there, yams from somewhere else. Chances are she couldn't survive where she does just on local and in season vegetables, unless you live in the amazon or something. Shipping stuff from half a world away is not the best plan for the environment, and those ships kill tons of animals or something.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Don't worry, I'll just have two cheeseburgers instead of one to help out the farms.

 

[Dirigible]

Originally posted by: MrMatt
So my gf's a vegan, and I'm ok with it....

Apparently not, based on the rest of your OP.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: MrMatt
So my gf's a vegan, and I'm ok with it, but I find most of the logic behind BEING a vegan to be complete horse-shit.

So let?s say you?re a vegan, you say you don?t want to hurt animals, and you want them to be treated with respect. But what you?re actually doing is contributing to industrial farming, and here?s why. As a consumer, you have choices about where to buy from. There are local organic free-range farms where the dairy cows aren?t cramped up and mistreated, and the egg-laying chickens are allowed free range as well. Then there are industrial farms where conditions are deadly, toxic, and absolutely horrid for the animals.

The problem is that industrial farms are crushing small local farms and forcing them into bankruptcy one after the other. Now as a vegan, you scream about wanting animals to be treated better. But you have these local farms where they ARE treated better. These local farms need your help, but as a consumer you?re doing the whole passive-aggressive-I?m-morally-superior-to-you vegan thing, and actually keeping your dollar in your pocket. Unfortunately the type of people that would buy from a local organic free-range type farm are in large part choosing instead to be vegan. So by sitting on the sidelines so to speak you?re not supporting the very farms that embody the ideals you claim to support, and allowing them to be continually raped by industrial farms.

Thoughts? I'm thinking of sending this to my gf to see how she reacts.

Your argument fails. A vegan can still buy from local farms which support them.

 

[RadiclDreamer]

Maddox says it best

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill

I was looking over a menu in a restaurant the other day when I saw a section for vegetarians; I thought to myself "boy, I sure am glad that I'm not a meat-hating fascist" and I skipped on to the steak section (because I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $15 for an alfalfa sandwich, slice of cucumber and a scoop of cold cottage cheese), but before I turned the page something caught my eye. The heading of the vegetarian section was titled "Guiltless Grill," not because there were menu items with fewer calories and cholesterol (since there were "healthy" chicken dishes discriminated against in this section), but because none of the items used animal products. Think about that phrase for a second. What exactly does "guiltless grill" imply? So I'm supposed to feel guilty now if I eat meat? Screw you.

What pisses me off so much about this phrase is the sheer narrow-mindedness of these stuck up vegetarian assholes. You think you're saving the world by eating a tofu-burger and sticking to a diet of grains and berries? Well here's something that not many vegetarians know (or care to acknowledge): every year millions of animals are killed by wheat and soy bean combines during harvesting season (source). Oh yeah, go on and on for hours about how all of us meat eaters are going to hell for having a steak, but conveniently ignore the fact that each year millions of mice, rabbits, snakes, skunks, possums, squirrels, gophers and rats are ruthlessly murdered as a direct result of YOUR dieting habits. What's that? I'm sorry, I don't hear any more elitist banter from you pompous cocks. Could it be because your shit has been RUINED?

That's right: the gloves have come off. The vegetarian response to this embarrassing fact is "well, at least we're not killing intentionally." So let me get this straight; not only are animals ruthlessly being murdered as a direct result of your diet, but you're not even using the meat of the animals YOU kill? At least we're eating the animals we kill (and although we also contribute to the slaughter of animals during grain harvesting, keep in mind that we're not the ones with a moral qualm about it), not just leaving them to rot in a field somewhere. That makes you just as morally repugnant than any meat-eater any day. Not only that, but you're killing free-roaming animals, not animals that were raised for feed. Their bodies get mangled in the combine's machinery, bones crushed, and you have the audacity to point fingers at the meat industry for humanely punching a spike through a cow's neck? If you think that tofu burgers come at no cost to animals or the environment, guess again.

To even suggest that your meal is some how "guiltless" is absurd. The defense "at least we're not killing intentionally" is bullshit anyway. How is it not intentional if you KNOW that millions of animals die every year in combines during harvest? You expect me to believe that you somehow unintentionally pay money to buy products that support farmers that use combines to harvest their fields? Even if it was somehow unintentional, so what? That suddenly makes you innocent? I guess we should let drunk drivers off the hook too since they don't kill intentionally either, right? There's no way out of this one. The only option left for you dipshits is to buy some land, plant and pick your own crops. Impractical? Yeah, well, so is your stupid diet.

Even if combines aren't used to harvest your food, you think that buying fruits and vegetables (organic or otherwise) is any better? How do you think they get rid of bugs that eat crops in large fields? You think they just put up signs and ask parasites to politely go somewhere else? Actually, I wouldn't put that suggestion past you hippies. One of the methods they use to get rid of pests is to introduce a high level of predators for each particular prey, which wreaks all sorts of havoc on the natural balance of predator/prey populations--causing who knows what kind of damage to the environment. Oops, did I just expose you moral-elitists for being frauds? Damndest thing.

A number of people have pointed out that the amount of grain grown to feed animals for slaughter every year is greater than the amount of grain grown for humans. So I guess the amount of grain grown for human consumption suddenly becomes negligible and we can conveniently ignore the fact that animals are still ruthlessly murdered either way because of your diet, right? Not to mention that the majority of grain grown for livestock is tough as rocks, coarse, and so low-grade that it's only fit for animal consumption in the first place. Spare me the "you could feed 500 people with the grain used to feed one cow" line of shit; it's not the same grain. Then there are the people who jump on the bandwagon with "you could plant billions of potatoes on the land used for cows"--good point, except for the fact that not every plot of land is equally fertile; you think farmers always have a choice on what they do with their land? Also, many vegetarians don't know (or care to acknowledge) that in many parts of the United States they have "control hunts" in which hunting permits are passed out whenever there is a pest problem (the pest here is deer, elk and antelope) that threatens wheat, soy, vegetable and other crops; this happens several times per year. Then some of you throw out claims that "we are trying to limit the suffering." How about you limit MY suffering and shut the hell up about your stupid diet for a change; nobody cares. Even if the number of animals that die in combine deaths every year isn't in the millions, even if it's just one, are you suggesting that the life of one baby rabbit isn't worth saving? Are you placing a value on life? Enjoy your tofu, murderers.

 

[MrMatt]

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt
So my gf's a vegan, and I'm ok with it, but I find most of the logic behind BEING a vegan to be complete horse-shit.

So let?s say you?re a vegan, you say you don?t want to hurt animals, and you want them to be treated with respect. But what you?re actually doing is contributing to industrial farming, and here?s why. As a consumer, you have choices about where to buy from. There are local organic free-range farms where the dairy cows aren?t cramped up and mistreated, and the egg-laying chickens are allowed free range as well. Then there are industrial farms where conditions are deadly, toxic, and absolutely horrid for the animals.

The problem is that industrial farms are crushing small local farms and forcing them into bankruptcy one after the other. Now as a vegan, you scream about wanting animals to be treated better. But you have these local farms where they ARE treated better. These local farms need your help, but as a consumer you?re doing the whole passive-aggressive-I?m-morally-superior-to-you vegan thing, and actually keeping your dollar in your pocket. Unfortunately the type of people that would buy from a local organic free-range type farm are in large part choosing instead to be vegan. So by sitting on the sidelines so to speak you?re not supporting the very farms that embody the ideals you claim to support, and allowing them to be continually raped by industrial farms.

Thoughts? I'm thinking of sending this to my gf to see how she reacts.

Your argument fails. A vegan can still buy from local farms which support them.

dairy & eggs?

 

[MrMatt]

Originally posted by: silverpig
Your logic fails.

Did you do anything to stop the genocide in Rwanda? No? Well then by your logic your sitting on the fence contributed to it.

My argument against veganism is that they can't survive without having food shipped to them from all over the world. Thai and Indian rice, wheat from here, potatoes from there, yams from somewhere else. Chances are she couldn't survive where she does just on local and in season vegetables, unless you live in the amazon or something. Shipping stuff from half a world away is not the best plan for the environment, and those ships kill tons of animals or something.

Are you saying that people sitting on the fence about rwanda didn't contribute? I'd say it did. Just like in Darfur people sitting around doing nothing contributes to the problem.

But the thing is, vegans are saying that they're contributing by NOT consuming dairy, or eggs. They say that by doing this they're contributing a solution to the problem of animals being mistreated. But there is a readily available cure for the problem they are addressing: local free-range farms. They're ignoring this option and letting a solution to their problem get buried by industrial farming. No one is saying that by not helping rwanda we're helping to end genocide. But vegans are saying that by not buying eggs or dairy products they're helping to end suffering of animals, when really they're letting people that embody the same values as them get bankrupted by industrial farms.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt
So my gf's a vegan, and I'm ok with it, but I find most of the logic behind BEING a vegan to be complete horse-shit.

So let?s say you?re a vegan, you say you don?t want to hurt animals, and you want them to be treated with respect. But what you?re actually doing is contributing to industrial farming, and here?s why. As a consumer, you have choices about where to buy from. There are local organic free-range farms where the dairy cows aren?t cramped up and mistreated, and the egg-laying chickens are allowed free range as well. Then there are industrial farms where conditions are deadly, toxic, and absolutely horrid for the animals.

The problem is that industrial farms are crushing small local farms and forcing them into bankruptcy one after the other. Now as a vegan, you scream about wanting animals to be treated better. But you have these local farms where they ARE treated better. These local farms need your help, but as a consumer you?re doing the whole passive-aggressive-I?m-morally-superior-to-you vegan thing, and actually keeping your dollar in your pocket. Unfortunately the type of people that would buy from a local organic free-range type farm are in large part choosing instead to be vegan. So by sitting on the sidelines so to speak you?re not supporting the very farms that embody the ideals you claim to support, and allowing them to be continually raped by industrial farms.

Thoughts? I'm thinking of sending this to my gf to see how she reacts.

Your argument fails. A vegan can still buy from local farms which support them.

dairy & eggs?

Ok - so if I have a vegan friend, they go to the local farmer's market to buy food from local farms (locally grown produce), you're telling me that they're actually harming the local farmer because they didn't buy dairy and eggs?

 

[MrMatt]

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt
So my gf's a vegan, and I'm ok with it, but I find most of the logic behind BEING a vegan to be complete horse-shit.

So let?s say you?re a vegan, you say you don?t want to hurt animals, and you want them to be treated with respect. But what you?re actually doing is contributing to industrial farming, and here?s why. As a consumer, you have choices about where to buy from. There are local organic free-range farms where the dairy cows aren?t cramped up and mistreated, and the egg-laying chickens are allowed free range as well. Then there are industrial farms where conditions are deadly, toxic, and absolutely horrid for the animals.

The problem is that industrial farms are crushing small local farms and forcing them into bankruptcy one after the other. Now as a vegan, you scream about wanting animals to be treated better. But you have these local farms where they ARE treated better. These local farms need your help, but as a consumer you?re doing the whole passive-aggressive-I?m-morally-superior-to-you vegan thing, and actually keeping your dollar in your pocket. Unfortunately the type of people that would buy from a local organic free-range type farm are in large part choosing instead to be vegan. So by sitting on the sidelines so to speak you?re not supporting the very farms that embody the ideals you claim to support, and allowing them to be continually raped by industrial farms.

Thoughts? I'm thinking of sending this to my gf to see how she reacts.

Your argument fails. A vegan can still buy from local farms which support them.

dairy & eggs?

Ok - so if I have a vegan friend, they go to the local farmer's market to buy food from local farms (locally grown produce), you're telling me that they're actually harming the local farmer because they didn't buy dairy and eggs?

no no no no that's not my point. I'm saying that they claim that they dont' eat dairy & eggs because they don't want to support the agro-industrial complex. There are farms that are local and free-range that are NOT agro-industrial. They don't buy from them though, they let them get plowed under. Not all farms are both vegetable & dairy/eggs, usually it's primarily one or the other.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt
So my gf's a vegan, and I'm ok with it, but I find most of the logic behind BEING a vegan to be complete horse-shit.

So let?s say you?re a vegan, you say you don?t want to hurt animals, and you want them to be treated with respect. But what you?re actually doing is contributing to industrial farming, and here?s why. As a consumer, you have choices about where to buy from. There are local organic free-range farms where the dairy cows aren?t cramped up and mistreated, and the egg-laying chickens are allowed free range as well. Then there are industrial farms where conditions are deadly, toxic, and absolutely horrid for the animals.

The problem is that industrial farms are crushing small local farms and forcing them into bankruptcy one after the other. Now as a vegan, you scream about wanting animals to be treated better. But you have these local farms where they ARE treated better. These local farms need your help, but as a consumer you?re doing the whole passive-aggressive-I?m-morally-superior-to-you vegan thing, and actually keeping your dollar in your pocket. Unfortunately the type of people that would buy from a local organic free-range type farm are in large part choosing instead to be vegan. So by sitting on the sidelines so to speak you?re not supporting the very farms that embody the ideals you claim to support, and allowing them to be continually raped by industrial farms.

Thoughts? I'm thinking of sending this to my gf to see how she reacts.

Your argument fails. A vegan can still buy from local farms which support them.

dairy & eggs?

Ok - so if I have a vegan friend, they go to the local farmer's market to buy food from local farms (locally grown produce), you're telling me that they're actually harming the local farmer because they didn't buy dairy and eggs?

no no no no that's not my point. I'm saying that they claim that they dont' eat dairy & eggs because they don't want to support the agro-industrial complex. There are farms that are local and free-range that are NOT agro-industrial. They don't buy from them though, they let them get plowed under. Not all farms are both vegetable & dairy/eggs, usually it's primarily one or the other.

So my vegan friend who goes to a local farmer's market to pick up her produce, who is she hurting exactly? I don't see your point here.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I know vegans that only buy from local farmers and grow their own food.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
I know vegans that only buy from local farmers and grow their own food.

^^ This. When I was living in Portland, OR, they actually had community areas set up so that people could grow their own food.

 

[polarbear6]

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Well, a lot of them think the ends justify the means, so what's the difference to them in the end when the poor furries get killed?

/sarcasm

lol I agree, but if they don't want animals getting killed, just be vegetarian, and buy dairy & eggs from local organic farms.

not neccesary. try to look up for some indian dishes .. all our dishes are almost purely vegis......

but some ingredients you might not find in you re supper markets ... like some spices

 

[MrMatt]

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt
So my gf's a vegan, and I'm ok with it, but I find most of the logic behind BEING a vegan to be complete horse-shit.

So let?s say you?re a vegan, you say you don?t want to hurt animals, and you want them to be treated with respect. But what you?re actually doing is contributing to industrial farming, and here?s why. As a consumer, you have choices about where to buy from. There are local organic free-range farms where the dairy cows aren?t cramped up and mistreated, and the egg-laying chickens are allowed free range as well. Then there are industrial farms where conditions are deadly, toxic, and absolutely horrid for the animals.

The problem is that industrial farms are crushing small local farms and forcing them into bankruptcy one after the other. Now as a vegan, you scream about wanting animals to be treated better. But you have these local farms where they ARE treated better. These local farms need your help, but as a consumer you?re doing the whole passive-aggressive-I?m-morally-superior-to-you vegan thing, and actually keeping your dollar in your pocket. Unfortunately the type of people that would buy from a local organic free-range type farm are in large part choosing instead to be vegan. So by sitting on the sidelines so to speak you?re not supporting the very farms that embody the ideals you claim to support, and allowing them to be continually raped by industrial farms.

Thoughts? I'm thinking of sending this to my gf to see how she reacts.

Your argument fails. A vegan can still buy from local farms which support them.

dairy & eggs?

Ok - so if I have a vegan friend, they go to the local farmer's market to buy food from local farms (locally grown produce), you're telling me that they're actually harming the local farmer because they didn't buy dairy and eggs?

no no no no that's not my point. I'm saying that they claim that they dont' eat dairy & eggs because they don't want to support the agro-industrial complex. There are farms that are local and free-range that are NOT agro-industrial. They don't buy from them though, they let them get plowed under. Not all farms are both vegetable & dairy/eggs, usually it's primarily one or the other.

So my vegan friend who goes to a local farmer's market to pick up her produce, who is she hurting exactly? I don't see your point here.

let me clarify: Produce and dairy/eggs are completely separate. If she's buying local from a farmer's market, good. But if you're vegan and saying it's because you don't want animals to be mistreated for dairy/eggs then you're a hypocrite. There are farms that are local and don't hurt the animals they get their dairy/eggs from. If you're keeping your money in your pocket, you're inherently allowing agro-industrial farms to continue plundering. And most farms are NOT largely dairy AND produce. It's usually largely dairy, and SOME produce, or largely produce and SOME dairy. It's not like a 50-50 split in most cases.

edit; If you're vegan you're buying produce at farmer's markets to support local PRODUCE farmers, not dairy farmers. If they had local farmer's markets and there are dairy&eggs there, a vegan will STILL not buy from that farmer, even if they use ethical practices in farming. This forces those dairy farmers deeper into the hole, and actually hurts the very cause that vegans claim to support.

 

[DrPizza]

Here's something that perhaps YOU need to be educated about. Stop spreading this crap about "the animals are mistreated." It's bullshit. Sure, some of the animals in some places are mistreated, but by and large, animals are NOT mistreated - organic, sustainable, or multi-national agri-business. It comes down to the bottom line. Mistreated animals do not gain weight as well. Mistreated animals have more problems with illnesses. It's in the best interests of the farmers and businesses to treat the animals well. Companies that don't - they have a much poorer feed to food conversion. These farmers and companies don't fire employees caught abusing animals because they're afraid that some PETA nutcase with a camera is going to video-tape them and make them look bad; they fire the employees because those employees are having a negative effect on their profits. So, please, quit conceding the point that big farm businesses are abusing animals.

As far as quality goes, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that tomatoes picked green, half a world away, and artificially ripened aren't going to taste as good as tomatoes ripened on the vine and picked fresh by your local farmer. And, the term "organic" does not eliminate huge conglomerates. The current trend in organic farming is toward these conglomerates as many of the co-ops have been consolidated & purchased by those big multi-national corporations you seem to be lobbying against.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: Juddog

Originally posted by: MrMatt
So my gf's a vegan, and I'm ok with it, but I find most of the logic behind BEING a vegan to be complete horse-shit.

So let?s say you?re a vegan, you say you don?t want to hurt animals, and you want them to be treated with respect. But what you?re actually doing is contributing to industrial farming, and here?s why. As a consumer, you have choices about where to buy from. There are local organic free-range farms where the dairy cows aren?t cramped up and mistreated, and the egg-laying chickens are allowed free range as well. Then there are industrial farms where conditions are deadly, toxic, and absolutely horrid for the animals.

The problem is that industrial farms are crushing small local farms and forcing them into bankruptcy one after the other. Now as a vegan, you scream about wanting animals to be treated better. But you have these local farms where they ARE treated better. These local farms need your help, but as a consumer you?re doing the whole passive-aggressive-I?m-morally-superior-to-you vegan thing, and actually keeping your dollar in your pocket. Unfortunately the type of people that would buy from a local organic free-range type farm are in large part choosing instead to be vegan. So by sitting on the sidelines so to speak you?re not supporting the very farms that embody the ideals you claim to support, and allowing them to be continually raped by industrial farms.

Thoughts? I'm thinking of sending this to my gf to see how she reacts.

Your argument fails. A vegan can still buy from local farms which support them.

dairy & eggs?

Ok - so if I have a vegan friend, they go to the local farmer's market to buy food from local farms (locally grown produce), you're telling me that they're actually harming the local farmer because they didn't buy dairy and eggs?

no no no no that's not my point. I'm saying that they claim that they dont' eat dairy & eggs because they don't want to support the agro-industrial complex. There are farms that are local and free-range that are NOT agro-industrial. They don't buy from them though, they let them get plowed under. Not all farms are both vegetable & dairy/eggs, usually it's primarily one or the other.

So my vegan friend who goes to a local farmer's market to pick up her produce, who is she hurting exactly? I don't see your point here.

let me clarify: Produce and dairy/eggs are completely separate. If she's buying local from a farmer's market, good. But if you're vegan and saying it's because you don't want animals to be mistreated for dairy/eggs then you're a hypocrite. There are farms that are local and don't hurt the animals they get their dairy/eggs from. If you're keeping your money in your pocket, you're inherently allowing agro-industrial farms to continue plundering. And most farms are NOT largely dairy AND produce. It's usually largely dairy, and SOME produce, or largely produce and SOME dairy. It's not like a 50-50 split in most cases.

edit; If you're vegan you're buying produce at farmer's markets to support local PRODUCE farmers, not dairy farmers. If they had local farmer's markets and there are dairy&eggs there, a vegan will STILL not buy from that farmer, even if they use ethical practices in farming. This forces those dairy farmers deeper into the hole, and actually hurts the very cause that vegans claim to support.

My point is this. If a vegan buys local, they are supporting the local farms. If an omnivore buys local, they are supporting the local farms. The core of your argument really has nothing to do with veganism, rather it has to do with supporting your local farms and farmers - which many vegans do and should be something that most people should do regardless of whether they are vegan, lacto-ovo vegetarian, or omnivores.

The food is fresher and it does more for your local economy whether you are a vegan or an omnivore.

 

[CountZero]

Your logic only works in the very narrow case of someone is vegan solely because they are against the mistreatment of animals on agribusiness farms but not against the slaughtering of animals. People that are vegan tend to think that slaughtering an animal, taking its eggs or taking from it the milk meant for its baby is itself mistreatment, even if the animal gets to run free before it is slaughtered. For those folks (the vast majority of vegans in my experience) the free range farm is the lesser of two 'evils' but still 'evil'.

If your GF has been a vegan for a long time arguing about it is largely a waste of time. And if you are trying to catch her in some type of logical trap to show her the error of her ways then you aren't actually ok with her being vegan, you just put up with it for now. Of course if you are college age the odds of this just being a phase are better than 50/50.

 

[Dwarf]

I am vegan, and I have gotten in to many discussions with my friends whenever we go for food outside or at their house regarding my choice.

Also, I am not a super strict vegan, I simply read food labels when I go shopping and and ask restaurant service if the food has any animal products.

As for your original arguement, I feel that free range/organic local farms still consider dairy cows as property and I do not want to get any dairy or eggs from them because ownership of a sentient living thing is not good.

This all comes from my religion - Jainism, where we try not to interfere with the natural lives of other living things and where we try to reduce our attachment to / ownership of things. This does not mean however that all Jains are vegans, but all of them should be vegetarian.

Also, this does not mean I want to avoid their vegetable products however, which I often buy at the farmer's market here every so often.

 

[BurnItDwn]

It's people like me, not vegatarians who contribute to industrial farming.

I want steak, chops, burgers, roasts, etc every meal of every day.
I don't give a crap if they tortured the animals or forced them into confined spaces before slaughter.

My concerns are 1.) that the meat is delicious, and 2.) that it doesn't cost too much.
If "free range" steaks costs more than "industrial farmed" steaks, I'll be buying the industrial farmed steaks.

 

[Fritzo]

I'm more into Vaginism

 

[Crono]

Any form of environmentalism (veganism isn't necessarily under environmentalism, though it can be) that prides itself on using the least amount of resources is a sham unless it is partnered with complete and minimal self sustainance from the local environment only. Which means eating local animals and/or what comes from trees, bushes, and plants around you, and not excessively. Using fallen trees and detritus, or a cave (not Batman style, though) for shelter. Not transporting things by anything other than physical labor. Not buying anything, but making everything yourself out of the natural materials available to you.

Very few people are willing to live like this, which is why most people believe in some sort of moderation between the modern, industrial or commercial lifestyle, and the natural lifestyle. Most believe in reducing negative impact, not eliminating it. Vegans aren't necessarily deluding themselves into thinking that their eating habits are non-detrimental, or at least they shouldn't be. Veganism shouldn't be used as a tool to make yourself feel morally superior (no true belief or belief system should be used in this way, actually).

Morality of killing animals and health issues aside, a minimalist hunter-gatherer (i.e. an omnivore) or subsistence farmer who provides for himself or herself on what is available naturally and locally has less of a negative impact on the environment than a vegan who buys groceries and food from stores and restaurants, particularly if the items are imported from other countries or even from great distances within the United States.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: MrMatt
Thoughts? I'm thinking of sending this to my gf to see how she reacts.

Only send it to her if you want to offend her choice to be a vegan while also looking like an idiot. 😛

Last time I checked, industrial farming used machinery. Where do the animals come into play? Do the cows drive the tractors?