Veganism contributes to Industrial Farming

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
I'm more into Vaginism

Are you now...

Spasmodic painful contraction of the entrance to the vagina during attempted intercourse, thus preventing the entrance of the penis. It is usually of psychological origin, although it may be due to inflammation of the vagina, causing a reflex contraction.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
It's people like me, not vegatarians who contribute to industrial farming.

I want steak, chops, burgers, roasts, etc every meal of every day.
I don't give a crap if they tortured the animals or forced them into confined spaces before slaughter.

My concerns are 1.) that the meat is delicious, and 2.) that it doesn't cost too much.
If "free range" steaks costs more than "industrial farmed" steaks, I'll be buying the industrial farmed steaks.

I like my meat too, but I find your viewpoint to be especially disgusting, troll or not.

 

[sutahz]

So if she's vegan why bring up chickens and cows?
But of industrial farming, farm equipment that harvests grains and such kill lots of animals in the course of their duties 🙂
Denis Leary said; "Eating meat is an instinct, not eating meat is a choice."

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
It's people like me, not vegatarians who contribute to industrial farming.

I want steak, chops, burgers, roasts, etc every meal of every day.
I don't give a crap if they tortured the animals or forced them into confined spaces before slaughter.

My concerns are 1.) that the meat is delicious, and 2.) that it doesn't cost too much.
If "free range" steaks costs more than "industrial farmed" steaks, I'll be buying the industrial farmed steaks.

I like my meat too, but I find your viewpoint to be especially disgusting, troll or not.

Torturing animals is bad. I have no problem with the killing of animals for food, but be humane about it.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
It's people like me, not vegatarians who contribute to industrial farming.

I want steak, chops, burgers, roasts, etc every meal of every day.
I don't give a crap if they tortured the animals or forced them into confined spaces before slaughter.

My concerns are 1.) that the meat is delicious, and 2.) that it doesn't cost too much.
If "free range" steaks costs more than "industrial farmed" steaks, I'll be buying the industrial farmed steaks.

I like my meat too, but I find your viewpoint to be especially disgusting, troll or not.

Torturing animals is bad. I have no problem with the killing of animals for food, but be humane about it.

Right. Anything else is sadistic, and being proud of it just makes one a disgusting human being, imo.

Americans are so far removed from their food source that they're comfortable with this level of ridiculous arrogance. Most farmers have greater respect for the animals, and though they slaughter without emotional recourse the vast majority do attempt to be as humane as possible.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: sutahz
So if she's vegan why bring up chickens and cows?
But of industrial farming, farm equipment that harvests grains and such kill lots of animals in the course of their duties 🙂
Denis Leary said; "Eating meat is an instinct, not eating meat is a choice."

And flying planes occasionally kills birds. Drive long enough and you'll kill a squirrel or more. Buy a used car and it probably killed animals along the way.

You all miss the point. You try to distill everything into this basic dichotomy of this or that, all carnivore or not at all. The movements behind organics, veganism, etc. started and are still mostly about minimizing impact and less about extremism. Granted, veganism has morphed more into a complete lack of any animal products, but vegetarians, those invested in sustainable agricultural practices, etc. don't have this silly dichotomy associated with it.

 

[Descartes]

dp. damn these forums.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Here's something that perhaps YOU need to be educated about. Stop spreading this crap about "the animals are mistreated." It's bullshit. Sure, some of the animals in some places are mistreated, but by and large, animals are NOT mistreated - organic, sustainable, or multi-national agri-business. It comes down to the bottom line. Mistreated animals do not gain weight as well. Mistreated animals have more problems with illnesses. It's in the best interests of the farmers and businesses to treat the animals well. Companies that don't - they have a much poorer feed to food conversion. These farmers and companies don't fire employees caught abusing animals because they're afraid that some PETA nutcase with a camera is going to video-tape them and make them look bad; they fire the employees because those employees are having a negative effect on their profits. So, please, quit conceding the point that big farm businesses are abusing animals.

As far as quality goes, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that tomatoes picked green, half a world away, and artificially ripened aren't going to taste as good as tomatoes ripened on the vine and picked fresh by your local farmer. And, the term "organic" does not eliminate huge conglomerates. The current trend in organic farming is toward these conglomerates as many of the co-ops have been consolidated & purchased by those big multi-national corporations you seem to be lobbying against.

I think you are missing several things here...

A) Mistreatment does not require physical abuse to most people - certainly not the OP or the supposed vegan. Using your "interesting" definition, you aren't mistreating your child if you keep it in a pet carrier 24 hours a day and feed it cheeze-it powder.

B) Mistreated animals certainly do have greater incidence of illness. That's why we pump them full of antibiotics and (formerly) steroids - because we would rather keep 20,000 cows in a 1 square inch box and pump them full of chemicals than give them more healthy conditions.

C) Their profits are already based on massive scale. It doesn't matter if they lose a dozen or two chickens more each yield - they can just throw up more "coops" - or more accurately con some other farmer into putting one up at great personal expense. I can pretty much guarantee you that an employee of a chicken farm could beat five chickens per week to death and perdue and tyson wouldn't even care.

 

[0roo0roo]

not sure whats so bad about industrial farming anyways.
most people dont want to be subsistence farmers😛
and cheap food is only something yuppies scoff at.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
not sure whats so bad about industrial farming anyways.
most people dont want to be subsistence farmers😛
and cheap food is only something yuppies scoff at.

In many cases, local farms are cheaper as well. Especially eggs and dairy.

 

[MrMatt]

Edit: For clarification, yes it's nice that some people shop for produce at local farmers markets. That's great, it really is. But no one is saying that they shop there because industrial farms harm plants. Many vegans I know avoid dairy/eggs because they say that industrial farms are cruel. There's an alternative to them; local farms where animals are free-range. Most dairy farms are NOT producing large enough amounts of produce, so while it's good to buy local produce, it doesn't apply to my argument.

 

[MrMatt]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Here's something that perhaps YOU need to be educated about. Stop spreading this crap about "the animals are mistreated." It's bullshit. Sure, some of the animals in some places are mistreated, but by and large, animals are NOT mistreated - organic, sustainable, or multi-national agri-business. It comes down to the bottom line. Mistreated animals do not gain weight as well. Mistreated animals have more problems with illnesses. It's in the best interests of the farmers and businesses to treat the animals well. Companies that don't - they have a much poorer feed to food conversion. These farmers and companies don't fire employees caught abusing animals because they're afraid that some PETA nutcase with a camera is going to video-tape them and make them look bad; they fire the employees because those employees are having a negative effect on their profits. So, please, quit conceding the point that big farm businesses are abusing animals.

As far as quality goes, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that tomatoes picked green, half a world away, and artificially ripened aren't going to taste as good as tomatoes ripened on the vine and picked fresh by your local farmer. And, the term "organic" does not eliminate huge conglomerates. The current trend in organic farming is toward these conglomerates as many of the co-ops have been consolidated & purchased by those big multi-national corporations you seem to be lobbying against.

point well taken. We don't see videos of normal conditions because it doesn't have shock value.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: MrMatt

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Here's something that perhaps YOU need to be educated about. Stop spreading this crap about "the animals are mistreated." It's bullshit. Sure, some of the animals in some places are mistreated, but by and large, animals are NOT mistreated - organic, sustainable, or multi-national agri-business. It comes down to the bottom line. Mistreated animals do not gain weight as well. Mistreated animals have more problems with illnesses. It's in the best interests of the farmers and businesses to treat the animals well. Companies that don't - they have a much poorer feed to food conversion. These farmers and companies don't fire employees caught abusing animals because they're afraid that some PETA nutcase with a camera is going to video-tape them and make them look bad; they fire the employees because those employees are having a negative effect on their profits. So, please, quit conceding the point that big farm businesses are abusing animals.

As far as quality goes, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that tomatoes picked green, half a world away, and artificially ripened aren't going to taste as good as tomatoes ripened on the vine and picked fresh by your local farmer. And, the term "organic" does not eliminate huge conglomerates. The current trend in organic farming is toward these conglomerates as many of the co-ops have been consolidated & purchased by those big multi-national corporations you seem to be lobbying against.

point well taken. We don't see videos of normal conditions because it doesn't have shock value.

Or because they are under contract with conglomerates that expressly forbid allowing video.

 

[0roo0roo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohMGqFhpypo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGDbVPJc5dE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwG2LzVP_nw

and if u like meades
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...0F7&index=0&playnext=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...96D&index=0&playnext=1

 

[CKent]

If you care this much, I don't see you lasting long with a vegan. And it'll be for your own good, those people are apeshit.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: CKent
If you care this much, I don't see you lasting long with a vegan. And it'll be for your own good, those people are apeshit.

I take offense... well, not really. I'm actually thinking about going vegan, though.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I never even considered the fact that many animals die through harvesting. You'd think they could do something to help prevent it like ultrasonic sound generating devices that scare rodents away or something. Maybe some kind of grid in front of the teeth, but guess that would be tricky to do in a way that does not interfeer the harvest process.

That said, while I am an animal lover and really frown upon cruelty and heartless killing, I'm not "anti meat". We are on top of the food chain, and as long as we kill humanly it does not bother me all that much. I personally could not go ahead and shoot an animal myself, but I wont curse at someone who will kill a pig or cow for food, and I do enjoy my burgers.

What I am against though is the ruthless, heartless killings, like what china does to cats, dogs and other animals.

That said I do respect a vegan's intentions and if it was someone I really loved I'd be willing to lay off the meat around the house. (would be hard though)

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

All vegans and vegetarians first decided that they don't want to meat. Then they spend years coming up with the logic.

People would be best off if they never asked these morons why.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
All vegans and vegetarians first decided that they don't want to meat. Then they spend years coming up with the logic.

People would be best off if they never asked these morons why.

😕

 

[johnjohn320]

Originally posted by: silverpig
...
My argument against veganism is that they can't survive without having food shipped to them from all over the world. Thai and Indian rice, wheat from here, potatoes from there, yams from somewhere else. Chances are she couldn't survive where she does just on local and in season vegetables, unless you live in the amazon or something. Shipping stuff from half a world away is not the best plan for the environment, and those ships kill tons of animals or something.

Rice-grown in US
Wheat-grown in US
potatoes-grown in US

Wanna try that again? Besides, you say that people couldn't survive on seasonal/local produce alone? What the hell do you think people did before trucks, ships, planes, grocery stores...?

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: johnjohn320

Originally posted by: silverpig
...
My argument against veganism is that they can't survive without having food shipped to them from all over the world. Thai and Indian rice, wheat from here, potatoes from there, yams from somewhere else. Chances are she couldn't survive where she does just on local and in season vegetables, unless you live in the amazon or something. Shipping stuff from half a world away is not the best plan for the environment, and those ships kill tons of animals or something.

Rice-grown in US
Wheat-grown in US
potatoes-grown in US

Wanna try that again? Besides, you say that people couldn't survive on seasonal/local produce alone? What the hell do you think people did before trucks, ships, planes, grocery stores...?

He's generalizing based on his girlfriend. He's not saying that people literally couldn't survive on homegrown food alone.