[VC]NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980, GTX 980 SLI, GTX 970, 3DMark performance

[Grooveriding]

680 vs 580 and similar comparisons aren't applicable here. You're talking about cards on a different process where the the 6XX series brute forces its way through the force of more transistors and the other benefits of a more modern process technology. This will be same process, less transisitors, less memory bandwidth. All 980 has to leverage here is better perf/w and I think this is why it seems that it may wind up being positioned as an interim cheaper than GK110 to produce card with similar performance and an upgrade for gtx 680/670/770 users.

 

[Mand]

Why don't you start by backing up the claim that the bus width isn't important.

Because it's one (small) component that goes into overall performance.

What I'm objecting to are the people proclaiming doom and uselessness because of 256-bit. If bus width were so critical, GTX 280 would be better than GTX 780.

Bus width is only one part of memory bandwidth, which is itself only one part of GPU performance. Yes, bus width can matter. But it's nowhere near as significant as some people seem to think.

It's the same nonsense thinking that leads people to think that GHz is the only number that matters for CPUs.

Overall memory bandwidth matters. How that memory bandwidth is utilized matters. Bus width, in isolation, doesn't actually determine performance.

 

[Rezist]

My guess is 970 for 1080p and probably 290 for 1440p would be the most efficient use of dollars. That being said the low power consumption is clearly the biggest bonus.

 

[Carfax83]

Why don't you start by backing up the claim that the bus width isn't important.

Bus width is important, but it's just one of many factors that add to overall bandwidth.

Maxwell has much larger internal caches than Kepler which relieves the pressure on the memory bus, thus allowing it to utilize narrower memory buses without the kind of performance hit you'd expect...

 

[amenx]

Would be funny if the 980 beats the 290x at 4k. Although I doubt it will temper the arguments of the 'moar-bit-bus-always-better' crowd regardless of benches.

 

[wand3r3r]

Would be funny if the 980 beats the 290x at 4k. Although I doubt it will temper the arguments of the 'moar-bit-bus-always-better' crowd regardless of benches.

Nobody has said that but let's face it, 256 bit bus with the same (presumably) bandwidth as the old gk104 chip seems unbalanced. Obviously nv has done something about it but is it enough? It's easy to guess based on the current cards that high resolutions have choked them, so will it affect these? If it's the new flagship it's going to be interesting to see.

Sadly nv proponents can't even discuss it with resorting to mockery.

 

[CakeMonster]

We've had 384bit and to some extent 512bit for a long time. For an enthusiast level card it should be pretty much expected to have one or the other, even if the design has sped up cache or efficiency.

I think what people are protesting is the fact on a card that by any objective measure costs a LOT ($399+), we don't want them to skimp on bus width just in order to pad their margins even more in a market where development is slowing down. If we are to believe that efficiency has made the performance difference from 256 to 384/512 less than previous generations, we still feel like we are being offered a product made just to earn them higher margins. When paying this much 384bit should be a minimum as long as is brings any performance benefit.

 

[Mand]

Nobody has said that but let's face it, 256 bit bus with the same (presumably) bandwidth as the old gk104 chip seems unbalanced. Obviously nv has done something about it but is it enough? It's easy to guess based on the current cards that high resolutions have choked them, so will it affect these? If it's the new flagship it's going to be interesting to see.

Sadly nv proponents can't even discuss it with resorting to mockery.

GTX 280: 512
GTX 480: 384
GTX 580: 384
GTX 680: 256
GTX 780: 384

I'm not mocking you, I'm saying you're wrong. There's a difference.

 

[3DVagabond]

Sometimes, it's wise to be.

But have I made it clearer what I meant before? I just want to make certain you understood what I meant.

Yes. Release (or possibly even pre release) drivers for GM104. I was simply stating that Maxwell isn't all that new of an arch that they won't have mature drivers on release. Hopefully we both got our points across. :thumbsup:

 

[3DVagabond]

Because it's one (small) component that goes into overall performance.

What I'm objecting to are the people proclaiming doom and uselessness because of 256-bit. If bus width were so critical, GTX 280 would be better than GTX 780.

Bus width is only one part of memory bandwidth, which is itself only one part of GPU performance. Yes, bus width can matter. But it's nowhere near as significant as some people seem to think.

It's the same nonsense thinking that leads people to think that GHz is the only number that matters for CPUs.

Overall memory bandwidth matters. How that memory bandwidth is utilized matters. Bus width, in isolation, doesn't actually determine performance.

In the case of the 280 it had GDDR3 RAM. At least compare apples with apples if you are going to try and make a case.

 

[Keysplayr]

Yes. Release (or possibly even pre release) drivers for GM104. I was simply stating that Maxwell isn't all that new of an arch that they won't have mature drivers on release. Hopefully we both got our points across. :thumbsup:

What was my point? That Maxwell will continue to improve performance with new drivers, as per usual. LOL you almost made me forget my orignal point you old rapscallion you! :sneaky:

 

[3DVagabond]

What was my point? That Maxwell will continue to improve performance with new drivers, as per usual. LOL you almost made me forget my orignal point you old rapscallion you! :sneaky:

That can be said about any current card, though. GCN is going to continue to improve. That's a non factor speaking relative to any other cards.

 

[Mand]

In the case of the 280 it had GDDR3 RAM. At least compare apples with apples if you are going to try and make a case.

That's the whole point.

Comparing bus width and nothing else doesn't give you the full picture.

 

[3DVagabond]

That's the whole point.

Comparing bus width and nothing else doesn't give you the full picture.

All of these recent cards that are being compared are using similar RAM though. We don't have one using DDR3 and another using DDR5, and another using HBM, for example.

 

[Keysplayr]

All of these recent cards that are being compared are using similar RAM though. We don't have one using DDR3 and another using DDR5, and another using HBM, for example.

Still, only one of many many aspects to contributing to the final performance level. The far larger onboard cache on Maxwell may greatly reduce the need for memory bandwidth. Memory subsystem could also be changed/improved. Again, one of many many aspects. I wonder if AMD's next gen will go the larger cache route. I guess we'll see.

 

[Keysplayr]

That can be said about any current card, though. GCN is going to continue to improve. That's a non factor speaking relative to any other cards.

Actually, it's a huge factor.

 

[3DVagabond]

Actually, it's a huge factor.

We got to get on the same page. All current cards are going to get driver improvements. All of them! So, "That's a non factor speaking relative to any other cards."

 

[3DVagabond]

Still, only one of many many aspects to contributing to the final performance level. The far larger onboard cache on Maxwell may greatly reduce the need for memory bandwidth. Memory subsystem could also be changed/improved. Again, one of many many aspects. I wonder if AMD's next gen will go the larger cache route. I guess we'll see.

That's fine. It's nothing to do though with 280 vs. 480. Absolutely nothing. Comparing DDR3 to DDR5 was a poor comparison.

 

[Keysplayr]

We got to get on the same page. All current cards are going to get driver improvements. All of them! So, "That's a non factor speaking relative to any other cards."

It's a huge factor, actually. New GPU. GM204. Give it about 6 months, then you can say it's a non-factor relative to any other cards. Same page, sure, that'll be the day.

 

[Keysplayr]

That's fine. It's nothing to do though with 280 vs. 480. Absolutely nothing. Comparing DDR3 to DDR5 was a poor comparison.

Yeah, go tell that to the guy who actually said it. Wasn't me.
I think he said it to show that bus width really didn't matter if the bandwidth was sufficient to provide the intended performance without causing bottlenecks.
And his point, as you have shown with your DDR3 to DDR5 comment, was to say that there are many many aspects that make up the total performance of any graphics card.

Basically we are saying the same thing, but for some reason won't accept each others way of saying it. LMAO!

 

[3DVagabond]

It's a huge factor, actually. New GPU. GM204. Give it about 6 months, then you can say it's a non-factor relative to any other cards. Same page, sure, that'll be the day.

How about we at least admit we are speaking the same language? That would be a start.

Yeah, go tell that to the guy who actually said it. Wasn't me.
I think he said it to show that bus width really didn't matter if the bandwidth was sufficient to provide the intended performance without causing bottlenecks.
And his point, as you have shown with your DDR3 to DDR5 comment, was to say that there are many many aspects that make up the total performance of any graphics card.

Basically we are saying the same thing, but for some reason won't accept each others way of saying it. LMAO!

Go tell the guy who actually said it? I did. And then you interjected.

 

[Deders]

We got to get on the same page. All current cards are going to get driver improvements. All of them! So, "That's a non factor speaking relative to any other cards."

It's a huge factor, actually. New GPU. GM204. Give it about 6 months, then you can say it's a non-factor relative to any other cards. Same page, sure, that'll be the day.

This article be of interest, although it may be less relevant considering there is only one Maxwell card available right now. It shows how there were more improvements from the release of the 680 till now compared to the release of the 780TI when drivers were already pretty much matured,

http://www.eteknix.com/examining-nvidias-driver-progress-since-launch-drivers-gtx-780-ti-gtx-680/

 

[jpiniero]

Aren't those all 2013 titles? Most of the driver updates are really just game specific hacks to increase the frame rate.

 

[Vesku]

It's a huge factor, actually. New GPU. GM204. Give it about 6 months, then you can say it's a non-factor relative to any other cards. Same page, sure, that'll be the day.

There will definitely be some gains, but it's not something that can be pinned down. Will it be a few % gains or multi double digit gains? I recall when the 7970 launched a lot of people wanted to see a bigger lead over the GTX 580 but after a couple of driver releases it was clearly a very powerful card and the posts criticizing it's performance greatly diminished.

There is potential but I think anyone planning a purchase to run triple+ monitor or 4K+ resolution might want to watch and wait for a bit if possible.

 

[Keysplayr]

There will definitely be some gains, but it's not something that can be pinned down. Will it be a few % gains or multi double digit gains? I recall when the 7970 launched a lot of people wanted to see a bigger lead over the GTX 580 but after a couple of driver releases it was clearly a very powerful card and the posts criticizing it's performance greatly diminished.

There is potential but I think anyone planning a purchase to run triple+ monitor or 4K+ resolution might want to watch and wait for a bit if possible.

Indeed. 7970 was vastly improved over time.

Agreed on second. Need more info and any real world benches.