Originally posted by: BigToque
Originally posted by: Kadarin
Originally posted by: BigToque
Originally posted by: Kadarin
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: Kadarin
Originally posted by: BigToque
No genetically modifying humans
Don't use drugs
Be mindfull of your pollution
Don't make yourself rich at the expense of others
Nothing on the list seems too outrageous.
So apparently I'm sinning when I drink beer or Coke, or take Advil for a headache. Oh wait, maybe only
illegal drugs are bad, right? So if I go somewhere where a given drug is legal, then it's no longer a sin? Drugs are illegal because they're sinful, and they're sinful because they're illegal?
What, exactly, is a drug in this case?
No genetically modifying humans? If we could eliminate a gene that causes cancer, with no other ill effects, how is this bad? God wants us to have cancer?
God wants us to go with nature. duh. If we start doing all this genetic stuff, we're playing god ourselves. :roll:
These are insane suggestions.
This seems to be the first time they have really taken it too far. Normally, religion and drive to better mankind don't really oppose each other, but this is directly stepping in and saying anything we do to better man is essentially going to ultimately be considered sin.
Wow. Talk about screwing mankind if the religious nutjobs hold their guns to this. Now your just providing further fodder for the fundamentalists fighting against stem cell research. Great.
God gave us intellect; is it wrong to use that intellect to make ourselves "better"? (Better defined as genetically modified to resist disease, live longer, be smarter, etc.)
In response to your first post, you're sinning when you're hurting yourself with said drugs. It doesn't matter what it is, cocaine, coca-cola, etc.
Second, there's nothing wrong with improving ourselves, however there is something wrong when you have to kill life in order to attain that goal. (growing human beings and killing them for their stem cells in order to do research when it's entirely possible to get stem cells without harvesting humans)
Regarding drugs:
Looking at the CNN.com quote, "He also mentioned drugs, which weaken the mind and obscure intelligence", I'm concerned that this is vague. Is he saying that all drugs weaken the mind and obscure intelligence, and the use of such are therefore sinful? Is he saying that only the use of those drugs which do in fact weaken the mind and obscure intelligence is sinful? Would the use of drugs that enhance intelligence and strengthen the mind be a good thing? Is it sinful to take painkillers that make you groggy (and thus weaken the mind and obscure intelligence)? Is it a sin to get high?
I realize he's the freakin' Pope and therefore supposed to be this high-falootin' "infallible" guy, but he sure as hell needs to be more specific about this.
You're getting way too specific and it's completely unnecessary. People know the difference between right and wrong.
If you take a pain killer, you are trying to help yourself. It's pretty obvious that it isn't a sin.
If you abuse substances such as painkillers, you're committing a sin.
People know that drugs like cocaine/meth/ecstacy/whatever can only harm your body, so by using them, you're committing a sin.
Is getting high a sin? It depends on why you're using the drug (ie, are you using it to relax or are you using it simply for the high?), whether it's hurting you and whether the drug is legal or not (God instructs us to follow the laws of the land).
Anyway, just as an FYI, I'm not religious at all.
does the act of regularly ingesting drugs to improve school performance, at the same time enjoying the high... count as a sin? Likely it does.
Most drugs people take for a variety of reasons, and while they are harmful, usually there is a positive relationship... nobody abuses drugs because they are bad for them and are rebelling against society by purposely destroying themselves.
Your mention of cocaine/meth/ecstasy only harming yourself... like I said, people know there are side effects, but they don't take those drugs to simply harm themselves... they high they view is beneficial. People chew coca leaves for the stimulating effect, but are also consuming cocaine and nicotine while doing so (and that is what provides the stimulant properties), meth is simply a new form of speed which people both consume for the high and for the energy, and ecstasy... well that tends to stick simply to the party drug atmosphere but provides stimulant effects. A lot of people take those drugs for the high the first time, but it gets to the point that they then feel they need it for the energy, or else they are slow, mopey, and their emotions get the best of them, notably anger through stress and anxiety (things that chemicals in the brain regulate, but the drugs amp them up to certain levels and the natural regulations of the brain no longer feels like enough, explaining the anxiety that leads to other problems... all how addictions are born).
now obviously, there is a lot of wrong in that explanation, and is no way justifying anything. but that explains the mindset of addicts, and the sometimes useful properties of the actual drugs when taken in more natural forms (if such exist).
for example, I take ephedrine daily for energy, focus, and to better my attention span. Ephedrine can and is taken as a recreational drug for the same reasons, notably the energy. I also use nicotine sparingly (through snus) for the same reasons. And in doing so, I also enjoy the euphoric properties of both. Am I going to hell? Well, I firmly have in my mind no such place exists, and these fabricated sins are merely ways of trying to create a better society through scare tactics... but alas, that is a moot point.
edit:
and as far as being given intellect... what the hell is that, honestly? Because we construct complicated equipment and make use of tools to make our world more comfortable, and can communicate with each other... and construct what we view as art and yada yada yada... is that intelligence? We may appear smarter than the rest of the animals, but really... we are nothing more than a product of evolution and natural adaptation. We are a problem-solving species. We encounter a problem, we yearn to overcome that problem. Started with how to kill efficiently, so we used rocks and bones to attack. Then came how to transport things, and the wheel came along as a nifty idea.... etc etc etc.
I think having the body shape we do makes all of this necessary, all came from tribal relations.
I strongly believe that if mankind was completely wiped out... come back in a million years and another primate may have taken our place and begun a new evolutionary track. Evolution stems from adaptation, and adaptation comes from either opportunity or is forced and required to continue. If you wiped us out, something else would need to grow to become dominant, or life would run rampant and a lot of species would grow overpopulated. With us, we control all the other populations besides our own. Something would need to step in to do the same, and I bet it would be another primate due to the brain size. Chimps are very tribal and it is likely another stage of evolution would occur in chimps or gorillas. Wonder if we'd be graced with a new take on Neanderthals if given the opportunity, or something entirely different than humans or neanderthals. We already know they were another type of human, but a variety of things wiped them out... either war, disease, famine, or a combination of those. Clearly our intelligence is not unique, we've just been given the time and opportunity to change it to a different style than other creatures.
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