Valve calls pirates 'underserved customers'

[Bateluer]

Text

Valve is one half of the pair of companies currently dominating PC gaming. So what do they think of piracy? Maybe not what you would expect.
According to GameDaily, Valve director of business development and legal affairs addressed the issued at the Game Business Law summit at Southern Methodist University, calling pirates "underserved customers." Taken from that perspective, Holtman says there are some interesting things they can do to make money off it.

"We take all of our games day-and-date to Russia," Holtman said. "The reason people pirated things in Russia is because Russians are reading magazines and watching television. They say 'Man, I want to play that game so bad,' but the publishers respond 'you can play that game in six months...maybe.' "

To Holtman, the key is making sure that Valve products are available on the Moscow shelves, in Russian, when they hit America. After that, he said that "we found that our piracy rates dropped off significantly."

Holtman also took aim at the conventional wisdom surrounding paid downloadable content, saying that giving away content meant that "sales would spike for several products, both at retail and through Steam." On that last point, at least, Criterion might agree with Burnout Paradise. As for the rest of the industry, it'll be interesting to see whether they're taking notes.

 

[ja1484]

Most of the people I've known that have pirated titles has mainly been due to financial reasons - they want to play a game hella band, but just can't spare the scratch.

I think they could dent piracy again by giving a 20% discount with proof of fulltime student status or something like that. Only problem is potential for abuse.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: ja1484

Most of the people I've known that have pirated titles has mainly been due to financial reasons - they want to play a game hella band, but just can't spare the scratch.

I think they could dent piracy again by giving a 20% discount with proof of fulltime student status or something like that. Only problem is potential for abuse.

I bet if game prices went back to what they were quite a few years ago (where a new release would be like $40) we would see a huge increase in sales.
$60 is way too much for a game, especially when many games don't have demos to try out and end up sucking horridly. Even some game lines can't be trusted anymore.. I recall in 2006 when Splinter Cell Double Agent came out, I went out and bought it right away because I had all the previous ones and they were great. But this one to this day can't be played due to the sheer amount of bugs in the game.

 

[ViviTheMage]

40$ WOULD BE PHENOMINAL.

 

[PingSpike]

I don't really buy the "they're to expensive" arguement. With PC Games, you can usually find a hot deal on a recently released title for like $40. This isn't a vacation to the bahamas here, its more like dinner at chilis. Its a pretty cheap luxury item, and its not like some one is stealing bread to feed their starving family.

I used to copy games a lot when I was younger, mostly just to LAN with people. I did it because I was cheap and because I could. I didn't have a lot of money, but I could have afforded it. Hell, I spent more then that on a pair of jeans on more then one occasion.

There's some truth I think to the underserved customers thing though. If the only way you can get something is by downloading it, well then I guess thats what you're going to do.

 

[TridenT]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I don't really buy the "they're to expensive" arguement. With PC Games, you can usually find a hot deal on a recently released title for like $40. This isn't a vacation to the bahamas here, its more like dinner at chilis. Its a pretty cheap luxury item, and its not like some one is stealing bread to feed their starving family.

I used to copy games a lot when I was younger, mostly just to LAN with people. I did it because I was cheap and because I could. I didn't have a lot of money, but I could have afforded it. Hell, I spent more then that on a pair of jeans on more then one occasion.

There's some truth I think to the underserved customers thing though. If the only way you can get something is by downloading it, well then I guess thats what you're going to do.

It's pretty expensive, actually. $50 for L4D is too much. The game is worth $30. Unfortunately, I bought into the hype and paid for it. (Not knowing there was only four fucking levels... Which are easy even on expert)

I think video game sales would go through the roof if a new release was $40 or less. I could buy 5 new games instead of 4 new games with $200 now. $200 is still a lot of money though, for 5 games.

Only reason I ever would pirate games is because I just do not have the financial freedom that some do to get all the games I want. Why else would you pirate? Because you don't have the fucking money, so you're not going to buy the game anyway!

 

[BenSkywalker]

Only reason I ever would pirate games is because I just do not have the financial freedom that some do to get all the games I want. Why else would you pirate? Because you don't have the fucking money

Then work more. The attitude that since you don't have money, it's OK to steal is the singular biggest threat to PC gaming. Don't make enough at your current job? Go get a second job. Hell, a paper route will pay for a new game every couple of weeks(if it takes that long). Not having the money is never a valid reason to steal.

so you're not going to buy the game anyway!

Take a game that is 10 hours that a thief may play through, if he worked for that long at minimum wage instead of playing the game he couldn't afford, he would have been able to buy it. It shocks me how lazy some people are. If you have the spare time to have gaming as a hobby, then you have the spare time to have a low hour part time job. If you don't have time for both- work the job for a few months then buy all the games you want and quit the job to play them.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Only reason I ever would pirate games is because I just do not have the financial freedom that some do to get all the games I want. Why else would you pirate? Because you don't have the fucking money

Then work more. The attitude that since you don't have money, it's OK to steal is the singular biggest threat to PC gaming. Don't make enough at your current job? Go get a second job. Hell, a paper route will pay for a new game every couple of weeks(if it takes that long). Not having the money is never a valid reason to steal.

so you're not going to buy the game anyway!

Take a game that is 10 hours that a thief may play through, if he worked for that long at minimum wage instead of playing the game he couldn't afford, he would have been able to buy it. It shocks me how lazy some people are. If you have the spare time to have gaming as a hobby, then you have the spare time to have a low hour part time job. If you don't have time for both- work the job for a few months then buy all the games you want and quit the job to play them.

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Anyways for me I don't pirate because the games are too expensive, I pirate because most games are NOT worth the money they cost. The games that are worth the cost I do buy (Orange Box, Far Cry, FEAR etc)

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Only reason I ever would pirate games is because I just do not have the financial freedom that some do to get all the games I want. Why else would you pirate? Because you don't have the fucking money

Then work more. The attitude that since you don't have money, it's OK to steal is the singular biggest threat to PC gaming. Don't make enough at your current job? Go get a second job. Hell, a paper route will pay for a new game every couple of weeks(if it takes that long). Not having the money is never a valid reason to steal.

so you're not going to buy the game anyway!

Take a game that is 10 hours that a thief may play through, if he worked for that long at minimum wage instead of playing the game he couldn't afford, he would have been able to buy it. It shocks me how lazy some people are. If you have the spare time to have gaming as a hobby, then you have the spare time to have a low hour part time job. If you don't have time for both- work the job for a few months then buy all the games you want and quit the job to play them.

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Anyways for me I don't pirate because the games are too expensive, I pirate because most games are NOT worth the money they cost. The games that are worth the cost I do buy (Orange Box, Far Cry, FEAR etc)

But they're worth your time? If they aren't worth paying for then why are you playing them?

Why should I pay full price to subsidize your idle time? That's what this is really about, I work hard, make a decent wage, and choose to purchase games that I want, because I can afford to. If you cannot afford to buy the games you want to play then get a better job, don't steal because you feel some sense of entitlement.

Gaming isn't a free ride, you have choices to make and opportunity costs to consider.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Only reason I ever would pirate games is because I just do not have the financial freedom that some do to get all the games I want. Why else would you pirate? Because you don't have the fucking money

Then work more. The attitude that since you don't have money, it's OK to steal is the singular biggest threat to PC gaming. Don't make enough at your current job? Go get a second job. Hell, a paper route will pay for a new game every couple of weeks(if it takes that long). Not having the money is never a valid reason to steal.

so you're not going to buy the game anyway!

Take a game that is 10 hours that a thief may play through, if he worked for that long at minimum wage instead of playing the game he couldn't afford, he would have been able to buy it. It shocks me how lazy some people are. If you have the spare time to have gaming as a hobby, then you have the spare time to have a low hour part time job. If you don't have time for both- work the job for a few months then buy all the games you want and quit the job to play them.

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Anyways for me I don't pirate because the games are too expensive, I pirate because most games are NOT worth the money they cost. The games that are worth the cost I do buy (Orange Box, Far Cry, FEAR etc)

How is it stupid?

Pirating is stealing, no way around it. And stealing is wrong. You can justify it to yourself however you want, but that doesn't make it right.

 

[BassBomb]

I think you both missed my point.

If more games are up to that standard of quality, I would be buying those no question. Since many are not I am only buying the ones that are.

I can easily afford to spend money on games. I buy console games all the time and I just came off of playing WoW for the past year (with both expansions).

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
I think you both missed my point.

If more games are up to that standard of quality, I would be buying those no question. Since many are not I am only buying the ones that are.

I can easily afford to spend money on games. I buy console games all the time and I just came off of playing WoW for the past year (with both expansions).

Well I think you missed my point, if a game isn't worth $40-60 to you or whatever the street price is at the time then you need to wait until a time where the price reaches your threshold.

That's what living in a capitalist society is all about.

I can't walk into a BMW dealership and tell them that I don't think the 135i is worth $40,000 and that I would only consider paying $20,000 and when they refuse I simply steal the car. That's not a moral argument you can win.

But that is your argument in a nutshell and you can see how quickly it falls apart in the real world.

 

[BassBomb]

I never said what I was doing is right, and I will never claim it is the right thing. I just explained why I do it. My statements weren't an argument or a defence, just anecdotal reasons.

Big corporations these days are far more easily turning away legal customers by their nasty DRM and other means.

When I tried to fire up COD W@W (that I bought) with my cousins in Coop (that they bought) it took us a few days to get the game to work out of the box online. Online was the whole reason to buy the game for us.

I doubt when a game gets to bargin bin $20 that the developers see any of that money anymore.

 

[zerocool84]

I don't remember the last time I ever payed full price for a PC game. Even at launch you can get it at Fry's or Steam for cheap.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Anyways for me I don't pirate because the games are too expensive, I pirate because most games are NOT worth the money they cost. The games that are worth the cost I do buy (Orange Box, Far Cry, FEAR etc)

No, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Of course its a common justification for people who steal, only because they have to come to this preconceived notion in order to justify their theft to begin with. If its not worth buying, then don't play it, period. If you think the game sucks, you have no right to steal it just to reinforce your preconcevied opinion. Its really that simple.

Originally posted by: ayabe
Well I think you missed my point, if a game isn't worth $40-60 to you or whatever the street price is at the time then you need to wait until a time where the price reaches your threshold.

That's what living in a capitalist society is all about.

I can't walk into a BMW dealership and tell them that I don't think the 135i is worth $40,000 and that I would only consider paying $20,000 and when they refuse I simply steal the car. That's not a moral argument you can win.

But that is your argument in a nutshell and you can see how quickly it falls apart in the real world.

OMG, wow stop, you're making too much sense, its making my head hurt.

 

[frostedflakes]

Interesting, nice to see another gaming company that gets it. I mean you can never stop piracy, unfortunately some people aren't willing to pay anything more than $0 for something they can get for free, but finding out why people download and changing your business model to accommodate this group is very smart.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: BassBomb
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Anyways for me I don't pirate because the games are too expensive, I pirate because most games are NOT worth the money they cost. The games that are worth the cost I do buy (Orange Box, Far Cry, FEAR etc)

No, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Of course its a common justification for people who steal, only because they have to come to this preconceived notion in order to justify their theft to begin with. If its not worth buying, then don't play it, period. If you think the game sucks, you have no right to steal it just to reinforce your preconcevied opinion. Its really that simple.

Originally posted by: ayabe
Well I think you missed my point, if a game isn't worth $40-60 to you or whatever the street price is at the time then you need to wait until a time where the price reaches your threshold.

That's what living in a capitalist society is all about.

I can't walk into a BMW dealership and tell them that I don't think the 135i is worth $40,000 and that I would only consider paying $20,000 and when they refuse I simply steal the car. That's not a moral argument you can win.

But that is your argument in a nutshell and you can see how quickly it falls apart in the real world.

OMG, wow stop, you're making too much sense, its making my head hurt.

my head is going to burst if one more person equates tangible property theft with digital content theft

its still a type of theft , but lets not lie and pretend its the same thing

what would you be more upset about ? me coming to your house and stealing your car..or me coming to your house and copying your software and leaving the original intact?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
my head is going to burst if one more person equates tangible property theft with digital content theft

its still a type of theft , but lets not lie and pretend its the same thing

what would you be more upset about ? me coming to your house and stealing your car..or me coming to your house and copying your software and leaving the original intact?

In its basest form, it is the same thing, morally reprehensible behavior. Where it differs is that stealing from someone else's property has greater risk and much greater repercussions, like someone being allowed to shoot and kill you, not to mention piracy is so rampant and pervasive simply because physical trespass is unnecessary.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Only reason I ever would pirate games is because I just do not have the financial freedom that some do to get all the games I want. Why else would you pirate? Because you don't have the fucking money

Then work more. The attitude that since you don't have money, it's OK to steal is the singular biggest threat to PC gaming. Don't make enough at your current job? Go get a second job. Hell, a paper route will pay for a new game every couple of weeks(if it takes that long). Not having the money is never a valid reason to steal.

so you're not going to buy the game anyway!

Take a game that is 10 hours that a thief may play through, if he worked for that long at minimum wage instead of playing the game he couldn't afford, he would have been able to buy it. It shocks me how lazy some people are. If you have the spare time to have gaming as a hobby, then you have the spare time to have a low hour part time job. If you don't have time for both- work the job for a few months then buy all the games you want and quit the job to play them.

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Anyways for me I don't pirate because the games are too expensive, I pirate because most games are NOT worth the money they cost. The games that are worth the cost I do buy (Orange Box, Far Cry, FEAR etc)

But they're worth your time? If they aren't worth paying for then why are you playing them?

Why should I pay full price to subsidize your idle time? That's what this is really about, I work hard, make a decent wage, and choose to purchase games that I want, because I can afford to. If you cannot afford to buy the games you want to play then get a better job, don't steal because you feel some sense of entitlement.

Gaming isn't a free ride, you have choices to make and opportunity costs to consider.

Because you cant tell a game will suck, what do we have to rely on to tell if a game sucks, a non existant demo, backhanded review sites and a bunch of retards on forums hoo giv der opinyun on fings dey liek. Even on forums where the people seem civil you get people that dont like starcraft, that hate half life for some inexplicable reason. Bottom line is everyones different and its reasonable enough to find out if a games fun or not to for you by pirating it. If you disagree with this fair enough, but you wont be convincing anyone otherwise.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: BassBomb
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Anyways for me I don't pirate because the games are too expensive, I pirate because most games are NOT worth the money they cost. The games that are worth the cost I do buy (Orange Box, Far Cry, FEAR etc)

No, that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Of course its a common justification for people who steal, only because they have to come to this preconceived notion in order to justify their theft to begin with. If its not worth buying, then don't play it, period. If you think the game sucks, you have no right to steal it just to reinforce your preconcevied opinion. Its really that simple.

Originally posted by: ayabe
Well I think you missed my point, if a game isn't worth $40-60 to you or whatever the street price is at the time then you need to wait until a time where the price reaches your threshold.

That's what living in a capitalist society is all about.

I can't walk into a BMW dealership and tell them that I don't think the 135i is worth $40,000 and that I would only consider paying $20,000 and when they refuse I simply steal the car. That's not a moral argument you can win.

But that is your argument in a nutshell and you can see how quickly it falls apart in the real world.

OMG, wow stop, you're making too much sense, its making my head hurt.

my head is going to burst if one more person equates tangible property theft with digital content theft

its still a type of theft , but lets not lie and pretend its the same thing

what would you be more upset about ? me coming to your house and stealing your car..or me coming to your house and copying your software and leaving the original intact?

Wrong.

A car is a product, just like a piece of software. Material and man hours were consumed in making it, and those that do produce things have a right to be compensated for their work.

It's as simple as that.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Maximilian

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Only reason I ever would pirate games is because I just do not have the financial freedom that some do to get all the games I want. Why else would you pirate? Because you don't have the fucking money

Then work more. The attitude that since you don't have money, it's OK to steal is the singular biggest threat to PC gaming. Don't make enough at your current job? Go get a second job. Hell, a paper route will pay for a new game every couple of weeks(if it takes that long). Not having the money is never a valid reason to steal.

so you're not going to buy the game anyway!

Take a game that is 10 hours that a thief may play through, if he worked for that long at minimum wage instead of playing the game he couldn't afford, he would have been able to buy it. It shocks me how lazy some people are. If you have the spare time to have gaming as a hobby, then you have the spare time to have a low hour part time job. If you don't have time for both- work the job for a few months then buy all the games you want and quit the job to play them.

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Anyways for me I don't pirate because the games are too expensive, I pirate because most games are NOT worth the money they cost. The games that are worth the cost I do buy (Orange Box, Far Cry, FEAR etc)

But they're worth your time? If they aren't worth paying for then why are you playing them?

Why should I pay full price to subsidize your idle time? That's what this is really about, I work hard, make a decent wage, and choose to purchase games that I want, because I can afford to. If you cannot afford to buy the games you want to play then get a better job, don't steal because you feel some sense of entitlement.

Gaming isn't a free ride, you have choices to make and opportunity costs to consider.

Because you cant tell a game will suck, what do we have to rely on to tell if a game sucks, a non existant demo, backhanded review sites and a bunch of retards on forums hoo giv der opinyun on fings dey liek. Even on forums where the people seem civil you get people that dont like starcraft, that hate half life for some inexplicable reason. Bottom line is everyones different and its reasonable enough to find out if a games fun or not to for you by pirating it. If you disagree with this fair enough, but you wont be convincing anyone otherwise.

Look this falls under being an informed consumer just like everything else. In fact, I bet you that there is much more information available on a game than just about any other kind of product you can buy.

Whether you are looking to buy a car, a toaster, or a PC game, you must be as informed as possible and make a decision. There is inherent risk in that decision, just like everything else. Sometimes you will get burned, we all do.

That's the nature of the beast, otherwise there wouldn't be marketing departments.

Edit - Again it comes down to personal thresholds, if you don't feel that X game is very good and not worth $60, fair enough, wait until it's $15 if that's your magic number. The crux of this being....if it's not THAT GOOD, why do you NEED IT NOW?

 

[Piuc2020]

Pirating is not good, if games can't be afforded (and really, they are pretty affordable, if they aren't then you probably have other things to worry about besides gaming) then just don't buy them or buy less games.

Of course some people are taking it to the extreme, illegal reproduction of intellectual property is simply not the same as stealing, when you steal a BMW they actually lose the car, copying bits and bytes costs nothing, making a new BMW does, even if all R&D for it is done.

 

[BenSkywalker]

what would you be more upset about ? me coming to your house and stealing your car..or me coming to your house and copying your software and leaving the original intact?

Or how about you making my friends lose their jobs because their title only sold 1/4 what they could track that was pirated? And if even 1/4 of those pirated copies had been sales they would still have had their job? I am not speaking in they hypothetical.

 

[novasatori]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

what would you be more upset about ? me coming to your house and stealing your car..or me coming to your house and copying your software and leaving the original intact?

Or how about you making my friends lose their jobs because their title only sold 1/4 what they could track that was pirated? And if even 1/4 of those pirated copies had been sales they would still have had their job? I am not speaking in they hypothetical.

Good, tell them to release them cheaper, maybe not make crap, and demos are nice too.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: ja1484

Most of the people I've known that have pirated titles has mainly been due to financial reasons - they want to play a game hella band, but just can't spare the scratch.

I think they could dent piracy again by giving a 20% discount with proof of fulltime student status or something like that. Only problem is potential for abuse.

I bet if game prices went back to what they were quite a few years ago (where a new release would be like $40) we would see a huge increase in sales.
$60 is way too much for a game, especially when many games don't have demos to try out and end up sucking horridly. .

EXACTLY. I buy far fewer games now (I don't pirate, I just don't play them period) because I've been burned far too many times.