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Valedictorian Rips Up Speech And Recites Lord's Prayer

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TerryMathews said:
I don't believe in the Quran. In the hypothetical scenario given by the parent poster, I would not have been in the crowd cheering for him like the people were over the Lord's prayer.

But I do support his right to free speech, so I would not have made any move or comment indicating I wished to silence him.

I'm not sure how else to explain it to you? This concept is discussed at length regarding flag burning, maybe Google that?
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I don't think you know what free speech means.

Free speech is your freedom to say something as you please but it may be limited by your workplace, school or location at the time of speech.

It's not absolute. It's not absolute for a reason, there are regulations that need to be followed and that is why they have a pre-approval of the speech.

But hey, next year a female will tell her story about how she had sex with five guys and it's ok... Free speech.

No, huh? You just support it when you like the speech, a fascist like the rest... pathetic.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Lying is wrong unless the lie serves a greater purpose such as saving lives.

At least that is the way it works for non-christians that haven't been indoctrinated with "all sins are equal in the eyes of god (which comes from Pauls bullsheit, not from Jesus. Though christians of today are Paulists and OT selectors they are (almost) NEVER Christ-followers).

I have lied out of need many times, i have not lied out of convenience.
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Do you understand why I asked bshole those 2 questions?
 
TerryMathews said:
I don't believe in the Quran. In the hypothetical scenario given by the parent poster, I would not have been in the crowd cheering for him like the people were over the Lord's prayer.

But I do support his right to free speech, so I would not have made any move or comment indicating I wished to silence him.

I'm not sure how else to explain it to you? This concept is discussed at length regarding flag burning, maybe Google that?
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I should also be free to tell him to shut up because I don't care to be proselytized to during an event that I am forced to sit through.
 
Phanuel said:
And if instead read a passage from the Quran? You'd still support him yes?
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Looks like you have reading comprehension issues. If you read the thread then you would have seen my answer.

Why is it you have a problem with a Christian but not a Muslim? Double standards and hypocrisy.
 
JEDIYoda said:
awwwwwwwwwwwwww
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Pick your battles carefully, if you are willing to stand with the fascists to defend your faith then Jesus will be on the other side and so will i.

You must think Israel is a real sheithole filled with pussified people because this would NEVER have been allowed there. Or perhaps in Israel, our homeland, they know better than to let religion separate us?

I think you need to reconsider this and perhaps go visit in Israel for a while.

Oh, btw, don't wear a cross, you won't be safe in some parts if you do.
 
Incorruptible said:
Looks like you have reading comprehension issues. If you read the thread then you would have seen my answer.

Why is it you have a problem with a Christian but not a Muslim? Double standards and hypocrisy.
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From all of your postings, this is a lie.

You argued against them being allowed to leave to pray much less allowing them to lead a prayer in school.

So what the fuck is it fascist?

Do they get to lead prayer in school as this daft fuck did or don't they even get to have their prayers off of school property?
 
Do you understand why I asked bshole those 2 questions?
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No I don't see how they could have any relevance whatsoever. Why would what I believe about lying matter?

This is a story about a person who is a fundamentalist Christian. This is a story about somebody who takes the Bible as the word of God. It is relevant what this person believes about lying. I assume he believes that lying is SIN. If I am correct in my assumption, then this person knowingly involved himself in SIN for Jesus. He demonstrated his moral integrity more than anything else through this debacle. He breaks God's laws so that can tell us to follow God's law? Puleez!

This same moral relativism (when taken to the extreme) allows Christian anti-abortionists to blow up abortion clinics and Muslim jihadists to fly jets into buildings.
 
bshole said:
No I don't see how they could have any relevance whatsoever. Why would what I believe about lying matter?

This is a story about a person who is a fundamentalist Christian. This is a story about somebody who takes the Bible as the word of God. It is relevant what this person believes about lying. I assume he believes that lying is SIN. If I am correct in my assumption, then this person knowingly involved himself in SIN for Jesus. He demonstrated his moral integrity more than anything else through this debacle. He breaks God's laws so that can tell us to follow God's law? Puleez!

This same moral relativism (when taken to the extreme) allows Christian anti-abortionists to blow up abortion clinics and Muslim jihadists to fly jets into buildings.
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Let's do talk about moral relativism. Please answer the 2 questions.
 
Have you ever lied?
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Yea, but only to get a drunk girl into bed.... oops I lied again!

Do you think lying is wrong?
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No (unless it is unlawful, for example lying under oath, lying on a tax form, etc...)


Okay englighten me brother. I am desparate to know your point....
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
From all of your postings, this is a lie.

You argued against them being allowed to leave to pray much less allowing them to lead a prayer in school.

So what the fuck is it fascist?

Do they get to lead prayer in school as this daft fuck did or don't they even get to have their prayers off of school property?
Click to expand...

I say let the Muslim pray instead of making a speech.
 
bshole said:
Yea, but only to get a drunk girl into bed.... oops I lied again!


No (unless it is unlawful, for example lying under oath, lying on a tax form, etc...)


Okay englighten me brother. I am desparate to know your point....
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You admittedly lie with impunity to get what you want…yet you criticize this kid for doing the same. By doing so, you’re holding him to a much higher moral standard than you’re willing to hold yourself to. You ridicule his apparent hypocrisy and yet are completely oblivious to your own.
 
you’re holding him to a much higher moral standard than you’re willing to hold yourself .
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I am not confident that I have a moral standard. I feel that I must but I am not entirely sure I could define it intelligently.

I was judging the kid against his OWN professed moral standard as provided by the Bible. Paul had two of his followers KILLED because they LIED about their donation to the church. If he really believes the Bible, he must believe he committed a mortal sin by lying. Of course if his religion is just a big fantasy that has no basis in objective reality, he is absolutely kosher.... no harm no foul. If the Bible is not to be followed then lie to your hearts content.

If I judged the kid against my OWN moral standard, he did no wrong but he did a whole lot of STUPID. It would be like me killing a cow to protest against eating hamburgers..... not necessarily wrong, just real kooky.
 
Well, being an Atheist myself...

One I find religion fascinating "ALL" religions. But the most boring one for me is the god of the desert. I like indian, or eastern religions most. Anyhow...

Aren't there enough christain schools that this dude could have gone to instead of a public school? If this person is so bent on religion, I'm thinking he should have gone to one of the many millions of religious schools instead. But whatever ... A lot of kids like to break the rules. Maybe he is not religious at all, he just wanted to shock everyone by going against the grain...

The only bigot here is the OP. I think it's rather funny that these threads keep popping up. Why? Because like it or not, the internet is causing a lot of people to take a second look at religion. It's giving people the power to see what it really is.... That they can decide for themselves if they want to continue on the illusion. And the church's are scared because the numbers are dwindling and so are the collection pots.

I don't think threads like this are going to change anyones mind to go put their faith in god. There will always be stories like this but for the most part and "FOR GOOD REASON" religion will be rejected in public schools. I am in favor of that.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
I don't think you know what free speech means.

Free speech is your freedom to say something as you please but it may be limited by your workplace, school or location at the time of speech.

It's not absolute. It's not absolute for a reason, there are regulations that need to be followed and that is why they have a pre-approval of the speech.

But hey, next year a female will tell her story about how she had sex with five guys and it's ok... Free speech.

No, huh? You just support it when you like the speech, a fascist like the rest... pathetic.
Click to expand...

I'm quite sure I do, and I stand behind his right to free speech as this was a public school and his right to protest has been affirmed by the supreme court in Tinker v. Des Moines (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...iqcycBmFAPui8Lb_Q&sig2=izHQOpUP4Y4tf3bwB1cIPg)
 
bshole said:
I am not confident that I have a moral standard. I feel that I must but I am not entirely sure I could define it intelligently.
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bshole said:
I was judging the kid against his OWN professed moral standard as provided by the Bible. Paul had two of his followers KILLED because they LIED about their donation to the church. If he really believes the Bible, he must believe he committed a mortal sin by lying. Of course if his religion is just a big fantasy that has no basis in objective reality, he is absolutely kosher.... no harm no foul. If the Bible is not to be followed then lie to your hearts content.

If I judged the kid against my OWN moral standard, he did no wrong but he did a whole lot of STUPID. It would be like me killing a cow to protest against eating hamburgers..... not necessarily wrong, just real kooky.
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Don’t you see that you’ve already judged this kid against your own moral standards?

Apparently you believe it’s acceptable, moral, and rational to hold someone to a higher standard than you’re willing to hold yourself to IF you happen to believe that person is failing to hold themselves to a standard that you perceive they should be holding themselves to. I’m sure that you believe that this is perfectly rational double standard. I would disagree; however, I do think it’s very convenient.

In this particular case, it appears that you’re bent on finding any minute fault with this kid because he happens to be a Christian. I’m going to let you in on a little secret…there isn’t one Christian on this planet that’s capable of meeting the level of morality you would “rationally” require of them.

You are the judge and jury….a bigot sitting on a high horse looking down his long pointed nose at a religion he doesn’t understand. It’s not pretty. And, for the record, I’m not saying I’m any better. I just hope your moral standard someday evolves into something with a little more tolerance for people who are different than yourself.
 
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TerryMathews said:
I'm quite sure I do, and I stand behind his right to free speech as this was a public school and his right to protest has been affirmed by the supreme court in Tinker v. Des Moines (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...iqcycBmFAPui8Lb_Q&sig2=izHQOpUP4Y4tf3bwB1cIPg)
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Are you joking, that is not relevant at all.

Either you are trolling, exceptionally stupid or you are so incredibly daft that you don't get why your link is not applicable at all.

Worst of them all is the last choice and i think that is the one for you... you poor stupid schmuck.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Are you joking, that is not relevant at all.

Either you are trolling, exceptionally stupid or you are so incredibly daft that you don't get why your link is not applicable at all.

Worst of them all is the last choice and i think that is the one for you... you poor stupid schmuck.
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Its completely applicable as he was doing this as a protest to the school banning prayer before events. You might not agree that is a valid protest but AFAIK there is no case law in either direction regarding prayer as a protest.

Don't you have a ComiCon to go pretend to be a solider at?
 
TerryMathews said:
Its completely applicable as he was doing this as a protest to the school banning prayer before events. You might not agree that is a valid protest but AFAIK there is no case law in either direction regarding prayer as a protest.

Don't you have a ComiCon to go pretend to be a solider at?
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Not at all and you know it, but you had to be dishonest because that is what a theist alwyas has to be, he has to lie to himself 24/7 and so rather than to admit that to himself he breakes the commandments of his lord rather than to admit how pitful he is..

I will leve your last sentece alone, others will not.
 
TerryMathews said:
Its completely applicable as he was doing this as a protest to the school banning prayer before events. You might not agree that is a valid protest but AFAIK there is no case law in either direction regarding prayer as a protest.

Don't you have a ComiCon to go pretend to be a solider at?
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It's probably likely it was done to protest. He was engaging in civil disobedience.
 
JohnOfSheffield said:
Not at all and you know it, but you had to be dishonest because that is what a theist alwyas has to be, he has to lie to himself 24/7 and so rather than to admit that to himself he breakes the commandments of his lord rather than to admit how pitful he is..

I will leve your last sentece alone, others will not.
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If you're saying that there is case law that supports your assertion that prayer isn't a protest, cite it. Otherwise, your true colors are showing.
 
The problem with this student's prayer is that it is to a captive audience. There is no prohibition against students praying in schools, despite incorruptible seeing shadows in every article. Hell, the student could have thanked god for his own success or whatever. I don't know what the kid was trying to accomplish with his act of civil disobedience. Is his point that we don't have enough public-sanctioned prayer in schools?

From what the ACLU has to say on the subject: http://www.acluutah.org/SKYR3.html
"Contrary to popular myth, the Supreme Court has never outlawed “prayer in school”. As a student, you are free to pray on your own or in student groups, as long as such prayers are not disruptive and do not infringe upon the rights of others at school. But it can’t be prayer for a captive audience, like at a school assembly, football game or graduation, or to compel other students to participate. School staff cannot be involved in student prayer or it becomes an endorsement by the school and therefore unconstitutional."
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