V-6 engines begin long fade into history

[Raduque]

But I don't know what's wrong with reving a gasoline engine to 6500, I quite like that, though my actual one isn't able to reach that...

I don't care for it. I don't like peaky, high-strung engines. I like a strong engine that doesn't have to be revved within an inch of it's life to make power. I like torque. I like wide, flat power bands. I like big-bore, long-stroke V8s.


I really don't have a problem with Forced Induction. But I don't want it as a crutch for having a too-small engine. And if a car requires FI to just get by in day-to-day driving, the engine is too damn small.

 

[postmortemIA]

http://world.honda.com/automobile-technology/VCM/ is one of solutions to keep V6.

 

[TraumaRN]

I don't care for it. I don't like peaky, high-strung engines. I like a strong engine that doesn't have to be revved within an inch of it's life to make power. I like torque. I like wide, flat power bands. I like big-bore, long-stroke V8s.


I really don't have a problem with Forced Induction. But I don't want it as a crutch for having a too-small engine. And if a car requires FI to just get by in day-to-day driving, the engine is too damn small.

Behold the fairly cheap-o looking torque and HP graph of the 2010 Ford Taurus SHO with the 3.5 twin turbo Ecoboost

And judging from the specs of the EB 2.0 I-4 you should see a similar torque curve/power band.


EDIT: And like I said earlier, Ford messed around with this engine dropped it into a 34 Ford Hotrod and had it pushing 400+hp and 400+ torque.

 

[Cobalt]

Dey took er cylinders!!!

edit: really cant do all caps? ruins the effect

 

[RU482]

Welcome to the '70s, Part 2.

ha, basic 4 cylinders have nearly as much HP as a Corvette Engine from the mid-late 70's

 

[microAmp]

http://world.honda.com/automobile-technology/VCM/ is one of solutions to keep V6.

Seems some what like what GM did with the 5.3L V8 in their trucks but I believe it only shutdown 4 cylinders and didn't have three states like the Honda one. Though I'm not sure if they're still doing that or not. :/ Can't find anything right now on their site.

 

[exdeath]

What they don't understand is that even if they offer a turbo 4 banger with 400 HP, the people who have V8s now are going to simply want the same technology on a V8 so that it gets over 800 HP. Anything you do to improve a 4 cyl has n times the improvement on an engine n times the size of the 4 banger.

 

[jlee]

dey took er cylinders!!!

Edit: Really cant do all caps? Ruins the effect

SURE YOU CAN in a way...

 

[exdeath]

Behold the fairly cheap-o looking torque and HP graph of the 2010 Ford Taurus SHO with the 3.5 twin turbo Ecoboost

And judging from the specs of the EB 2.0 I-4 you should see a similar torque curve/power band.


EDIT: And like I said earlier, Ford messed around with this engine dropped it into a 34 Ford Hotrod and had it pushing 400+hp and 400+ torque.

And an EcoBoost V8 would still be 33% better than the V6 if built the same way. You can put turbos on V8s too and make a hell of a lot more than 400 HP.

 

[jlee]

I don't care for it. I don't like peaky, high-strung engines. I like a strong engine that doesn't have to be revved within an inch of it's life to make power. I like torque. I like wide, flat power bands. I like big-bore, long-stroke V8s.


I really don't have a problem with Forced Induction. But I don't want it as a crutch for having a too-small engine. And if a car requires FI to just get by in day-to-day driving, the engine is too damn small.

Sounds like you're thinking of a NA 4cyl..unless you're running a massive turbo, there's no need to rev sky-high to make power.

And an EcoBoost V8 would still be 33% better than the V6 if built the same way. You can put turbos on V8s too and make a hell of a lot more than 400 HP.

You'll be beyond the point of practicality. Grandma doesn't need 600hp to go get groceries.

 

[exdeath]

Sounds like you're thinking of a NA 4cyl..unless you're running a massive turbo, there's no need to rev sky-high to make power.

Yeah, you can get 300-400 HP out of a 2 liter class 4 cyl turbo with a nice broad power curve.

You don't start getting peaky until you start doing things like 76mm turbos and trying to exceed 400 HP, at which point you start sacrificing drivability and everything else for peak power (eg: dyno queens).

Don't know if you remember Scott McClendon's old MR2 build before the recent upgrades; ~400 HP and 400 lb-ft with like 300 lb-ft at 2500 RPM or something sick like that. That thing had a huge torque curve.

Though hes upgraded in pursuit of more peak power and you can see the drastic drop in low end grunt with his latest dyno graphs.

 

[exdeath]

You'll be beyond the point of practicality. Grandma doesn't need 600hp to go get groceries.

No, but I do, and I shouldn't be denied that option if I'm willing to pay for it, just because grandma doesn't want it

The day I can't buy a V8 is the day I start writing G code. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against 4 bangers and I know they can be built well too, it's just that everything you can do with a 4 banger you can do with a V8 too and there is so much more growth potential with every mod.

I mean, look at a typical aftermarket supercharger which costs about $3000 no matter what you put it on that claims 50% power gain; on a 150 HP 4 banger like a Scion that 50% is 75 HP, but on a 400 HP V8, that same $3000 and 50% gain gets you 200 HP. Pardon my rough ricer math but you get the idea. I like modded 4 bangers too, but when you look at numbers like that (lots of money for tiny gains in absolute terms)...

 

[jlee]

No, but I do, and I shouldn't be denied that option if I'm willing to pay for it, just because grandma doesn't want it

Can't blame you there.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I can't believe Audi no longer offers their V6 in the A4! That is crazy.

But I think hell will freeze over before we see the end of BMW's I6. We will see some nice 4-bangers from them though.

basically no one ordered the A4 V6. everyone went with the 2.0T

they even have the 2.0T in the A5 now with the V6 being offered only for the highest-end A5.

 

[exdeath]

If you want to get deeper into it; if displacement is equal, an engine with more cylinders will have greater internal friction which may cause a slight reduction in power. That said, there are also issues with large engines that have fewer cylinders because the larger combustion chambers can be difficult to optimize for proper flame propagation and a complete burn, not to mention the inherent vibration issues that come into play for the I4 and V4 and the packaging issues that come into play for the flat-4.

In the end, I think you're right that for practical purposes the configuration doesn't matter, but it's fun to look more into just why that is.

For large displacement engines, a cross-plane V8 or an I6 are generally preferred due to their inherent balance characteristics and their ability to keep the individual combustion chambers a manageable size. The main reason the I6 is so prevalent in OTR (Over The Road) trucking is its inherent balance, which is a huge advantage when you're dealing with the amount of reciprocating mass in an OTR diesel.

ZV

*beer and thumbs up*

 

[exdeath]

I can't believe Audi no longer offers their V6 in the A4! That is crazy.

But I think hell will freeze over before we see the end of BMW's I6. We will see some nice 4-bangers from them though.

Hell froze over when the M3 lost it's I6 to a V8

 

[Iron Woode]

Right, but we only had 200hp and 169 ft lbs (and that's what really hurt us) torque.

I have the 2.0l Zetec in my 1998 Contour and while its a fine engine, I wish it had a bit more power.

 

[Arkaign]

Hell froze over when the M3 lost it's I6 to a V8

Well, it started out with a Turbo i4, no?

 

[fstime]

NA 4. And I rarely get caught up in these "manufacturers have to stick to their traditions no matter what" mentalities.

I mean, who cares if the M3 went from an I6 to a V8. Maybe it should have never went from an I4 to a I6 in the first place? The V8 is lighter and produces more power. The engine is the last thing one should blame when comparing the new and old.

As far as someone stating all 4 cylinders suck, a decent displacement (2.0-2.2L) I4 with a small turbo makes a fantastic DD engine with a modern turbo and no lag.

The VW/Audi 2.0T has already been mentioned.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Yeah the M3 went to V8 for two reasons; 1 - The iron block of the S54 is heavy. 2 - They couldn't get it to produce 400Hp.

BMW's original the goal of the S54 was 400Hp, but 343hp was the final number. The CSL upped that a little to 360hp, but that is all you could get out of it without using forced induction, and maybe that would have been fun to see on the e92, a twin turbo S54, ala the 35i motor.

 

[The-Noid]

The main point is sure the ecoboost is a nice engine but MPG is not earth shattering compared to a V8.

I do like the engine but the ecoboost v6 gets significantly better mpg than a i4/h4 that is blown to get the hp/torque of a 300-320 hp DI V6.

V6 will not die and the V8/V10/V12 cars are more of a niche product these days anyway (minus trucks).

 

[HannibalX]

You should be more careful who you argue with. I'm 100 yards away from 2V 4.6L V8 production line, I launched the 3V 4.6L Mustang (same line btw), and the Shelby (different line), and I'm launching the 6.2 right now - in the same building.

But, hey.... what do I know about what's happening in the future.

When you so gleefully pointed out what's currently in the truck, you failed to miss the point where we were talking about what's happening in the future. Also, I'll point out that the current engine offering is driven as much by open plant space, plant closings, and new engine line capacities as it is by what Ford actually wants in the vehicles.

Big deal. You being in the factory has nothing to do with what Ford has done with the current truck. Are we supposed to be impressed?

 

[Demon-Xanth]

ha, basic 4 cylinders have nearly as much HP as a Corvette Engine from the mid-late 70's

Basic 4 cylinder cars also have as much weight (if not more) than a Corvette from the mid-late '70s. And we're only at the beginning.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

well, it started out with a turbo i4, no?

n/a i4

 

[Pulsar]

Can you make that 2 please?

HA!

I'll have to figure out how to get mine first! They're taking every last one we can produce.

I look forward to the future when a base V6 like the one in the 2010 mustang (305 hp) is in the pickups as the base model. Gotta wait for them to scale up the v6 production though.