Using the neighbours internet

[Turin39789]

I leave my network open for this reason. I've had to limp by on others before, golden rule.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: Sasiki
I'd say they are welcoming people to use their internet. Don't worry about it, especially since you're waiting on the phone company to hook up your DSL.

They are welcoming you to use their internet in the same way that they would welcome you to steal everything in their garage if they left the door open, to steal their car if they left it unlocked with the keys in the ignition, to use their electricity if they had an extension cord running outside, etc.

Edit: I'm not saying the severity is equal to those things I mentioned. I just think it's a slippery slope to say, "Well, if they didn't want me to use their internet, then they would've secured their network," because that argument could be used for the above examples and many others as well. You don't know if it's some technological retard who doesn't even know what an unsecured network is or couldn't fathom someone stealing their bandwidth, and you are simply preying on the ignorant or trusting (not to mention breaking the law).

 

[oddyager]

Originally posted by: kalrith

Originally posted by: Sasiki
I'd say they are welcoming people to use their internet. Don't worry about it, especially since you're waiting on the phone company to hook up your DSL.

They are welcoming you to use their internet in the same way that they would welcome you to steal everything in their garage if they left the door open, to steal their car if they left it unlocked with the keys in the ignition, to use their electricity if they had an extension cord running outside, etc.

Edit: I'm not saying the severity is equal to those things I mentioned. I just think it's a slippery slope to say, "Well, if they didn't want me to use their internet, then they would've secured their network," because that argument could be used for the above examples and many others as well. You don't know if it's some technological retard who doesn't even know what an unsecured network is or couldn't fathom someone stealing their bandwidth, and you are simply preying on the ignorant or trusting (not to mention breaking the law).

this is basically true. the average consumer probably won't know that they need to secure their wifi connection. the salesman is going to comment, oh wifi is easy to install and you don't have to bother with messy cables. you probably won't hear, by the way, wifi requires a little bit of one time maintenance and you need to secure it.

ethically it is wrong. you are using a service someone else paid for without their permission. now whether its a big deal for you is left up to your own moral barometer.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Colt45
People raping your wife is the punishment for being to lazy/ignorant to lock the doors.

Fixed.

Just because something is not locked or secured does NOT make it legal nor ethical to take or use without permission of the owner.

Not a single one of you would like someone to use/take/abuse something of yours without your permission. Therefore you have no ethical excuse for doing the same to others.

Now if you PURPOSELY leave your wifi open and invite others to use it, you are giving permission. That does not excuse you assuming that every other open wifi is the same anymore than every unlocked house is open for you to roam.

The golden rule is not ..."as your cynical, excuse making ass would expect others to treat you" ... it's "as you would like them to treat you."

I think the forums have officially hit a new low. Way to go on comparing leeching wireless internet to rape :roll:

I don't get it. If you don't want people to use your bandwidth, secure your network. Anyone who disagrees is a white knighting dickhead or too lazy to take the 10 seconds required to secure their network.

Leaving the network insecure is an invitation to use it. This is NOT the same as entering someone's home. Many wireless configurations will automatically connect to insecure networks. Your feet will not automatically take you into your neighbor's house. It shouldn't be my responsibility to mess with my configuration just because your router is open.

When you make the choice to leave your router open, you're giving people permission to use it. It's as simple as that. The law is wrong, in this case. This is the equivalent of leaving your door open when you leave for the day and having someone come in to steal a penny. Most people will never know the difference. Yes, it is illegal, but it's ridiculous to bitch and moan about losing that penny if you leave your door unlocked.

Christ, I can't tell whether the people attacking leeching are fake posters or legitimate retards.

 

[JM Aggie08]

using propour spelling

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: oddyager

Originally posted by: kalrith

Originally posted by: Sasiki
I'd say they are welcoming people to use their internet. Don't worry about it, especially since you're waiting on the phone company to hook up your DSL.

They are welcoming you to use their internet in the same way that they would welcome you to steal everything in their garage if they left the door open, to steal their car if they left it unlocked with the keys in the ignition, to use their electricity if they had an extension cord running outside, etc.

Edit: I'm not saying the severity is equal to those things I mentioned. I just think it's a slippery slope to say, "Well, if they didn't want me to use their internet, then they would've secured their network," because that argument could be used for the above examples and many others as well. You don't know if it's some technological retard who doesn't even know what an unsecured network is or couldn't fathom someone stealing their bandwidth, and you are simply preying on the ignorant or trusting (not to mention breaking the law).

this is basically true. the average consumer probably won't know that they need to secure their wifi connection. the salesman is going to comment, oh wifi is easy to install and you don't have to bother with messy cables. you probably won't hear, by the way, wifi requires a little bit of one time maintenance and you need to secure it.

ethically it is wrong. you are using a service someone else paid for without their permission. now whether its a big deal for you is left up to your own moral barometer.

You have to log in to the router to activate wireless. Modern routers will then notify you that you're enabling an insecure network. If you don't take the 10 seconds to secure your network (or call the neighbor kid over to help), then it's your own damn fault.

MOST wireless users either have a relative/friend install their wireless network OR get guys like Geek Squad to do it. Even my 80 year-old grandmother knows about WPA and how to click the button to enable it (my grandmother is not very computer literate, but she does like being able to check her e-mail from anywhere in her home).

I don't think we should be trying to save people from themselves, that's all.

Having a WPA secured router is like having a deadbolt on your door and only giving the key to relatives/friends
Having a MAC Address filtered router is like leaving the door unlocked
Having no security on your router is like leaving the door open with a sign saying "Help Yourself" - don't be shocked when someone comes in and drinks all of your beer.

 

[Electric Amish]

If they don't know enough to secure it, they will never know you're on it.

 

[rh71]

how easy is it for someone to get your passwords etc. if you use wifi? I know nothing is 100% secure but is it easily capturable?

I use wifi at home and log in to many sites but I also am the owner of the router and am 99.9% sure nobody is trying to grab what I type. Not so sure about others who leave their wifi open... am I just being too paranoid?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

In before Alkemyst says you are stealing.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
In before Alkemyst says you are stealing.

It doesn't matter now, we've already made the comparison between wifi leeching and rape. Even Alkemyst knows that the thread is already fucked

 

[KK]

Its my belief that any ota signal that you can pick up on your property is fair game. While my belief may not be legal, I don't give a rats ass. the law should be changed.

 

[onlyCOpunk]

Frankly I don't think it's illegal in any respect, unless one is using it to do illegal things.

An open wireless network is fair game. Just look at Wifi enabled phones, they will automatically piggyback to any open network. Wifi was made to work this way.

And all these analogies to stealing are terrible. Unlocked doors open garages.

It's like this dilemma. You are walking down the street and you see a $50 bill. You pick it up. Are you stealing? Or did you "find" $50 bucks. Clearly that $50 belonged to someone and by their own neglect they dropped it. Yet by finding it you wouldn't consider yourself a thief would you? You would consider yourself $50 richer. You don't know the original owner's intentions. Maybe they put it there to make someone's day brighter, maybe they merely dropped it. Point is, you don't know and will never know. Surely you aren't just going to leave the $50 there and think the owner will be back for it.

The same goes for unsecured Wifi. Whether or not it was purposefully left open or the owner is just ignorant to this kind of thing will never be known. Especially in a neighbourhood like mine with apartments and multifamily homes. There is no real way to track down the owner and discuss their intentions of the network with them, or inform them they have an open network. But it's like the $50 bill. I'm not just going to leave it on the ground, I'm going to pick it up, like this Wifi signal and use it.


*takes a bow*

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: onlyCOpunk
Frankly I don't think it's illegal in any respect, unless one is using it to do illegal things.

An open wireless network is fair game. Just look at Wifi enabled phones, they will automatically piggyback to any open network. Wifi was made to work this way.

And all these analogies to stealing are terrible. Unlocked doors open garages.

It's like this dilemma. You are walking down the street and you see a $50 bill. You pick it up. Are you stealing? Or did you "find" $50 bucks. Clearly that $50 belonged to someone and by their own neglect they dropped it. Yet by finding it you wouldn't consider yourself a thief would you? You would consider yourself $50 richer. You don't know the original owner's intentions. Maybe they put it there to make someone's day brighter, maybe they merely dropped it. Point is, you don't know and will never know. Surely you aren't just going to leave the $50 there and think the owner will be back for it.

The same goes for unsecured Wifi. Whether or not it was purposefully left open or the owner is just ignorant to this kind of thing will never be known. Especially in a neighbourhood like mine with apartments and multifamily homes. There is no real way to track down the owner and discuss their intentions of the network with them, or inform them they have an open network. But it's like the $50 bill. I'm not just going to leave it on the ground, I'm going to pick it up, like this Wifi signal and use it.


*takes a bow*

One can keep trying to make analogies, but it still a federal crime. Period. You cannot argue this point, that is fact.

You are accessing a computer and computer network that you do not have explicit permission to use as defined by federal law.

The way to provide public wifi is clearly defined and done all the time with means to ensure permission is given. Stop with the analogies, it is illegal and you are accessing a computer and computer network you don't have permission to use.

Not only that just by you associating to the AP of your neighbor you are degrading their service even if you don't do anything. That right there should tell you it isn't right. Ignorance of the law or how wireless works is no excuse.

 

[onlyCOpunk]

If it's illegal then find a precident case or law saying it is illegal in the state of New South Wales, Aus where I live.

 

[frostedflakes]

I'm pretty sure there is precedent in the US, but no clue about Australia.

 

[QueBert]

they should make it illegal for people to broadcast their unsecure wireless signal into your house, I battled with my neighbor more today because my wireless adapter is once again auto connecting to his network without asking me because it's the strongest signal it picks up. I'm thinking about calling the cops on him

 

[funkymatt]

Originally posted by: QueBert
they should make it illegal for people to broadcast their unsecure wireless signal into your house, I battled with my neighbor more today because my wireless adapter is once again auto connecting to his network without asking me because it's the strongest signal it picks up. I'm thinking about calling the cops on him

screw that
if it's a dd-wrt capable device, reflash the firmware, jack up the antenna output and call the fcc. :laugh:

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: onlyCOpunk
If it's illegal then find a precident case or law saying it is illegal in the state of New South Wales, Aus where I live.

Sorry, you guys have real freedom over there which makes my point moot. I'm seriously thinking about relocating.

In that case it's a moral dilemma...you are using your neighbor's resources. If that's OK with you then so be it, but it is what it is.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: funkymatt

Originally posted by: QueBert
they should make it illegal for people to broadcast their unsecure wireless signal into your house, I battled with my neighbor more today because my wireless adapter is once again auto connecting to his network without asking me because it's the strongest signal it picks up. I'm thinking about calling the cops on him

screw that
if it's a dd-wrt capable device, reflash the firmware, jack up the antenna output and call the fcc. :laugh:

I probably already could report him, he has a huge antenna outside on his roof. I can pick up a signal a block away with my laptop. Mind you everyone in my area has wirless and his signal's still strong enough to be picked up hella far away. I should look into the FCC thing to see how strong is too strong.

 

[funkymatt]

Originally posted by: QueBert

Originally posted by: funkymatt

Originally posted by: QueBert
they should make it illegal for people to broadcast their unsecure wireless signal into your house, I battled with my neighbor more today because my wireless adapter is once again auto connecting to his network without asking me because it's the strongest signal it picks up. I'm thinking about calling the cops on him

screw that
if it's a dd-wrt capable device, reflash the firmware, jack up the antenna output and call the fcc. :laugh:

I probably already could report him, he has a huge antenna outside on his roof. I can pick up a signal a block away with my laptop. Mind you everyone in my area has wirless and his signal's still strong enough to be picked up hella far away. I should look into the FCC thing to see how strong is too strong.

Refer to part 15.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.go...47&TYPE=TEXT&YEAR=2001

here's a good chart:
http://www.michwave.com/bbnetwork/faq/fcc.htm

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: onlyCOpunk
If it's illegal then find a precident case or law saying it is illegal in the state of New South Wales, Aus where I live.

Sorry, you guys have real freedom over there which makes my point moot. I'm seriously thinking about relocating.

In that case it's a moral dilemma...you are using your neighbor's resources. If that's OK with you then so be it, but it is what it is.

Hope you don't like guns.

 

[mugs]

If you think there is nothing morally wrong with using your neighbor's Internet, just tell them you're doing it. They obviously won't care, since there is nothing wrong with doing it.

Problem solved.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: mugs
If you think there is nothing morally wrong with using your neighbor's Internet, just tell them you're doing it. They obviously won't care, since there is nothing wrong with doing it.

Problem solved.

I've got a water fountain out in my front yard. This water fountain spews Merlot or Bawls or whatever you want it to. I pay for every single ounce that comes out of this fountain. I make ZERO effort to thwart people drinking from it (WPA?), I could have put it inside (wired vs. wireless) or taken the free "BUY MAGIC FOUNTAIN, GET ARMY OF PITBULLS" to guard it (WPA!), but I choose to leave it accessible to everyone. People are using it out of my negligence. IMO, leeching Wi-Fi is just like the "Your apple tree is partly in my yard, I get to pick fruit off whatever is in my yard" argument someone posted earlier in the thread.

I leech off Wi-Fi because I live in an apartment building. I only download larger files (videos, etc.) using a download manager during the wee hours of the night. No automatic updates run on my computer, I try to be as minimal a load on their network as possible. I'm getting my own internet soon, and will enable WPA2 on my router as soon as it is set up.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

If they haven't bothered to secure it, go for it. Just use a condom.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: mugs
If you think there is nothing morally wrong with using your neighbor's Internet, just tell them you're doing it. They obviously won't care, since there is nothing wrong with doing it.

Problem solved.

I've got a water fountain out in my front yard. This water fountain spews Merlot or Bawls or whatever you want it to. I pay for every single ounce that comes out of this fountain. I make ZERO effort to thwart people drinking from it (WPA?), I could have put it inside (wired vs. wireless) or taken the free "BUY MAGIC FOUNTAIN, GET ARMY OF PITBULLS" to guard it (WPA!), but I choose to leave it accessible to everyone. People are using it out of my negligence. IMO, leeching Wi-Fi is just like the "Your apple tree is partly in my yard, I get to pick fruit off whatever is in my yard" argument someone posted earlier in the thread.

I leech off Wi-Fi because I live in an apartment building. I only download larger files (videos, etc.) using a download manager during the wee hours of the night. No automatic updates run on my computer, I try to be as minimal a load on their network as possible. I'm getting my own internet soon, and will enable WPA2 on my router as soon as it is set up.

I have flower pots on my front porch. I don't do anything to secure them. Amazingly, they've never been stolen. :Q