Using SL 5x5 to lose fat

[z1ggy]

I used be around 190lb @5'9, strong from lifting throughout the years. I never worried about my BF%, I don't really care about being cut\ripped. As long as I don't have a gut I don't care.
I started running last year. I'm struggling to maintain 180lbs because whatever body fat I have is melting away.

Lately I've been doing a wendler 5/3/1 (PL...not BB)routine 3 days a weeks, a long run once a week (4-9 miles Sun, lot of hills) and 2 fast runs (2 miles Monday, Friday)
This is on top of 3 fairly fast 2 mile walks 3 days a week.

Slimming down while getting stronger (and fixing some bad lifting habits in the process)
Only tricky part is food planning around each activity.

Congrats on the success. I feel you- I am not looking to be a male model here..I don't have the genes for that crap. I just want to fit nicely in size 32 jeans and have a flat stomach, some abs would be nice.

Sounds like getting stronger while cutting fat is possible. Worst case scenario here is that I do SL5x5 for a while, get strong as hell, gain weight (mostly muscle, but perhaps some fat) and then after just do a tiny bit of lifting with tons of running, for an effective net gain of muscle and fat.

It would just be nice to do both at once instead of having to slave away 6 or 10 months from now running miles and miles ( I hate treadmills and the like).

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I haven't read much of this thread, but I did notice you said you had hip surgery 3 months ago. What kind of hip surgery and for what? There are a LOT of hip surgeries where lifting weights 3 months afterward is contraindicated and can lead to re-injury.

 

[alkemyst]

I haven't read much of this thread, but I did notice you said you had hip surgery 3 months ago. What kind of hip surgery and for what? There are a LOT of hip surgeries where lifting weights 3 months afterward is contraindicated and can lead to re-injury.

I had shoulder surgery. They say like a year.

8 days out of my sling, 6 or so weeks of PT and I was golden.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I had shoulder surgery. They say like a year.

8 days out of my sling, 6 or so weeks of PT and I was golden.

Just because you did it doesn't mean it's the smartest thing to do. Actually, I think you've proven that your actions are rarely the smartest thing to do.

Especially with hip surgeries, like labral repairs, ORIF of the femur, etc there should be quite a long span to allow the tissue to repair. These take much longer to repair due to the nature of the tissue.

 

[z1ggy]

Just because you did it doesn't mean it's the smartest thing to do. Actually, I think you've proven that your actions are rarely the smartest thing to do.

Especially with hip surgeries, like labral repairs, ORIF of the femur, etc there should be quite a long span to allow the tissue to repair. These take much longer to repair due to the nature of the tissue.

Labral tear repair. I literally just started doing heavy legs again ("heavy" relative...I was squatting 135 the other day in comparison to doing body weight for PT). My doc cleared me to squatting weight like 135 again..And since it's been so long I honestly don't have the legs in me to do much more (3x12 @135).

I have a 4month follow up on 6/17 to see my progress. At this point the only real issues I have remaining are some tightness, but most of the pain is gone. I have been doing light dead lifts now (95lb) for about 2 weeks to ease back into legs. I've also been doing abs for about a month and my hip flexors feel okay. Running is pretty much pain free as well.

Seeing as that I will be starting SL5x5 exactly by the books means I will be squatting a measly 45lb bar then up to an astonishing 60lbs by the end of the first week. I think I will be okay...

 

[alkemyst]

Just because you did it doesn't mean it's the smartest thing to do. Actually, I think you've proven that your actions are rarely the smartest thing to do.

Especially with hip surgeries, like labral repairs, ORIF of the femur, etc there should be quite a long span to allow the tissue to repair. These take much longer to repair due to the nature of the tissue.

WTF are you referring to?

I am a long time athlete, I have done nothing except prove textbook guys like yourself are usually wrong and at best over-conservative.

 

[Wyndru]

Personally I have not been able to make gains while dieting.

I started SL 5x5 before I got serious about dieting. I was increasing on my squats until about 225 (which was just over my body weight at the time). My deads were at 275.

I then started dieting and I saw my strength actually decrease over time (I'm assuming because of my caloric deficit). Now I have a hard time squatting 215, and at this point I'm just trying to maintain when I gained. I'm also doing cardio on my non weight lifting days (just 30 minute eliptical).

I figure when I hit my weight goal, then I will up my calorie intake and concentrate on strength again.

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeah, scratch what I said above, all the sudden all my lifts are stalling. Maybe it's possible to make some slight gains with a small defecit, but I don't think it's possible for me to make any gains at my current defecit (1000 calories).

 

[z1ggy]

Yeah, scratch what I said above, all the sudden all my lifts are stalling. Maybe it's possible to make some slight gains with a small defecit, but I don't think it's possible for me to make any gains at my current defecit (1000 calories).

Just read a short eBook by Tony Venuto (body builder, power lifter, recommended read by the Mehdi guy who wrote the SL program).

He encourages a program where you eat 3 different ways: In excess of your TDEE, your TDEE and then under your TDEE. To just lose fat with zero muscle gains he suggests eating 3 days at 15-20% below TDEE then one day at TDEE. For a bit less fat loss, but some muscle gains, he suggests eating 3 days 15-20% below TDEE then 1 day at 15-20% above TDEE. For muscle gains with minimal fat gain or even fat loss he suggests eating 3 days 15-20% above TDEE then 3 days 15-20% below TDEE.

Also, he suggested eating 6 times a day with the meals being around 400 or so cals each. Addtionally, the highest cal meals were your first meal of the day, and the meal immediately before and immediately after your work out, with no more than 3 hours between meals.

I think the mistake a lot of people make is they constantly eat in a calorie def. but try lifting heavy for strength, too. It's just not possible. You can't train for a marathon while you try to also train for a stength competition.

All in all, I am going to be doing SL5x5 while doing the 3:1 fat loss for 12 weeks and see what happens. Additionally after my strength work out I plan to do a high inclined fast pace speed walk on the tread mill, or a medium intensity elliptical work out, both for about 25-30 mins.

 

[Koing]

Just read a short eBook by Tony Venuto (body builder, power lifter, recommended read by the Mehdi guy who wrote the SL program).

He encourages a program where you eat 3 different ways: In excess of your TDEE, your TDEE and then under your TDEE. To just lose fat with zero muscle gains he suggests eating 3 days at 15-20% below TDEE then one day at TDEE. For a bit less fat loss, but some muscle gains, he suggests eating 3 days 15-20% below TDEE then 1 day at 15-20% above TDEE. For muscle gains with minimal fat gain or even fat loss he suggests eating 3 days 15-20% above TDEE then 3 days 15-20% below TDEE.

Also, he suggested eating 6 times a day with the meals being around 400 or so cals each. Addtionally, the highest cal meals were your first meal of the day, and the meal immediately before and immediately after your work out, with no more than 3 hours between meals.

I think the mistake a lot of people make is they constantly eat in a calorie def. but try lifting heavy for strength, too. It's just not possible. You can't train for a marathon while you try to also train for a stength competition.

All in all, I am going to be doing SL5x5 while doing the 3:1 fat loss for 12 weeks and see what happens. Additionally after my strength work out I plan to do a high inclined fast pace speed walk on the tread mill, or a medium intensity elliptical work out, both for about 25-30 mins.

Let us know how you get on. 3 meals below and one meal above maintenance.

Everyone thinks they can get stronger on a calorie deficit and it basically turns out after about 5-8lbs+ or a month they will notice a significant drop in strength that they use to have. Some days will be okay, and others better but in general strength will drop along with fat loss no matter how you cut it on a calorie deficit. Just make up your mind on what you want to achieve. Get shredded and be weaker or bulk and get a lot stronger? Or maintain and very slowly get a tiny bit stronger.

Koing

 

[z1ggy]

Get shredded and be weaker or bulk and get a lot stronger? Or maintain and very slowly get a tiny bit stronger.

Koing

Arnold was "shredded" and wasn't exactly "weak" either. Perhaps he did his muscle gaining, then fat burning in serial stages rather than parallel, but I don't think one has to be "weak" in order to have muscle definition.

I suppose then the real goal would be if you did things in stages would be after you gain muscle, to make sure you lose more fat than muscle when you are cutting.

I think all in all, there will be a point because I am at a deficit, that I will plateau faster than if I was eating at maintenance or eating in excess. But already being at 18% fat, I don't plan to eat above maintenance until I can get down to around 12%, which will most likely take me the better part of 6 months to a year given the fact I am only cutting by about 300-400 cals a day.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Arnold was "shredded" and wasn't exactly "weak" either. Perhaps he did his muscle gaining, then fat burning in serial stages rather than parallel, but I don't think one has to be "weak" in order to have muscle definition.

I suppose then the real goal would be if you did things in stages would be after you gain muscle, to make sure you lose more fat than muscle when you are cutting.

I think all in all, there will be a point because I am at a deficit, that I will plateau faster than if I was eating at maintenance or eating in excess. But already being at 18% fat, I don't plan to eat above maintenance until I can get down to around 12%, which will most likely take me the better part of 6 months to a year given the fact I am only cutting by about 300-400 cals a day.

Arnold had great genetics and steroids. Koing is the one guy on here I'd take lifting advice from without question.

 

[Koing]

Arnold was "shredded" and wasn't exactly "weak" either. Perhaps he did his muscle gaining, then fat burning in serial stages rather than parallel, but I don't think one has to be "weak" in order to have muscle definition.

I suppose then the real goal would be if you did things in stages would be after you gain muscle, to make sure you lose more fat than muscle when you are cutting.

I think all in all, there will be a point because I am at a deficit, that I will plateau faster than if I was eating at maintenance or eating in excess. But already being at 18% fat, I don't plan to eat above maintenance until I can get down to around 12%, which will most likely take me the better part of 6 months to a year given the fact I am only cutting by about 300-400 cals a day.

When I said weak I meant it in relative terms. I guarantee that Arnold was stronger when he was in the off season with a higher bodyfat percentage, say 12-13% than when he is lower down in the single digits. When you go from say 12-13 down to 6-8 you will lose a chunk of strength. You just hope to retain as much as possible. Arnold isn't a weightlifter and is not judged on what he can lift. He is judged on his physique.

You can go from 18 to 12% within 4months easily if you diet properly. It's all about how badly you want it imo.

I was discussing this with a PT and a friend of mine. Most people do not want it enough. It takes sacrifices to get down to single digits. No one likes to eat 500-1000 less calories a day for 12-16 weeks. I'm on 3.5 weeks of my 12 and 18 week cut, down 2.7kg so far. Another 5 and I should be in the single digits, if not I'll keep on going.

Arnold had great genetics and steroids. Koing is the one guy on here I'd take lifting advice from without question.

Thanks . I learnt from a great coach for the 5yrs and I'm still competing 15yrs in.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/koing

2200calories, 138c, 86f, 220p

Check out my food diary. It's pretty brutal but it's all about will power.

Koing

 

[z1ggy]

Arnold had great genetics and steroids. Koing is the one guy on here I'd take lifting advice from without question.

It just seems silly that I have to chose between being strong, or being "ripped". What good is it being strong if you don't look it? And what good is looking strong if you actually aren't? By that logic, lifting isn't even worth my time.

 

[z1ggy]

Arnold isn't a weightlifter and is not judged on what he can lift. He is judged on his physique.

He used to power lift when he was young before he became a body builder.

You can go from 18 to 12% within 4months easily if you diet properly. It's all about how badly you want it imo.

Can we PM so I can tell you my diet plan? I suppose my #1 goal is the fat loss. Strength really doesnt matter right now, as long as I am not weak. Ie, in 12-16 weeks from now, if my max bench and squat, etc, were the same or even slightly less, but I was at 12% body fat, I would be very content with that. Same goes for putting any more muscle on. I am fine at my lean mass now, I just really want to cut.

 

[Saint Nick]

It just seems silly that I have to chose between being strong, or being "ripped". What good is it being strong if you don't look it? And what good is looking strong if you actually aren't? By that logic, lifting isn't even worth my time.

You can do it ... just eat clen and tren hard

 

[Blackjack200]

It just seems silly that I have to chose between being strong, or being "ripped". What good is it being strong if you don't look it? And what good is looking strong if you actually aren't? By that logic, lifting isn't even worth my time.

You would look strong in the same way an NFL lineman looks strong, you just wouldn't look chiseled.

 

[Koing]

He used to power lift when he was young before he became a body builder.



Can we PM so I can tell you my diet plan? I suppose my #1 goal is the fat loss. Strength really doesnt matter right now, as long as I am not weak. Ie, in 12-16 weeks from now, if my max bench and squat, etc, were the same or even slightly less, but I was at 12% body fat, I would be very content with that. Same goes for putting any more muscle on. I am fine at my lean mass now, I just really want to cut.

No. He use to be a weightlifter (Snatch; Clean and Jerk) actually not a powerlifter (Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift)

Why don't you post here so others can read about it and they may find it useful as well?

Your strength will not be the same if you drop your body fat down to 12%. I can guarantee you this. They won't be even slightly less. You are going to lose a fair amount of strength but you should be able to retain 80-85% of your strength, but it's anyones guess how much *you* will be able to retain. Way too many variables to make an accurate guess. You can recover strength once at a lower bodyweight but it will take time.

To get cut you need to eat/ exercise a 500calorie deficit per day or 3500 (1lb) per week. Lift weights 2-3x a week to maintain Lean Body Mass (LBM). Job done. Just grind it out. I'm 3.5 weeks in to mine. 4 weeks on Sunday.

Koing

 

[Koing]

Originally Posted by
It just seems silly that I have to chose between being strong, or being "ripped". What good is it being strong if you don't look it? And what good is looking strong if you actually aren't? By that logic, lifting isn't even worth my time.

What is strong? It is all relative.

e.g. you can squat 120kg now, at 12% you probably can squat at least 100-105kg is my wild guess.

e.g. when I was at 92kg I was BS 177.5kg for 4x4. Last Sunday I was doing 165kg x 3reps, the 2nd set I only managed 2reps and had to drop down to 155kg for 3's. I did 9sets with 155kg. This is only going to get worse as I get in to the single digits and the longer I diet.

BP 120x4; 125x4; 132.5x4; 140x1; 100x16 at 90kg, the other week I did 120x4; 125x1, just completely died on the 125. But the previous week I was 1kg heavier I managed 120x4; 125x4; 132.5x4; 100x11

Clean and Jerks has been even worse...
91.72 CJ 145kg in comp
90 CJ 140
89 CJ 135
88 CJ 130

It's not as if you will be completely weak at 12% but you will be weaker. The strength loss should stablise at some point but whatever. I'm not fussed on strength gains at the moment. My goal is to go from good to phenomenal shape. I'm going to lift embarrassingly low at the British Champs on the 13th July LOL but I'm going to be in some serious shape.

My brother was in such phenomenal shape at the English champs in February they drugs tested him. He came like 9th out of 11th LOL but he is injured and was doing the comp for fun.

Koing

 

[dealmaster00]

Athlete that runs and lifts vs the lift only athlete is a better athlete. End of story. Don't make excuses that you guys don't train properly.

this isn't true at all. depends entirely what you are training for.

 

[z1ggy]

No. He use to be a weightlifter (Snatch; Clean and Jerk) actually not a powerlifter (Squat, Bench Press, Deadlift)

Why don't you post here so others can read about it and they may find it useful as well?

Your strength will not be the same if you drop your body fat down to 12%. I can guarantee you this. They won't be even slightly less. You are going to lose a fair amount of strength but you should be able to retain 80-85% of your strength, but it's anyones guess how much *you* will be able to retain. Way too many variables to make an accurate guess. You can recover strength once at a lower bodyweight but it will take time.

To get cut you need to eat/ exercise a 500calorie deficit per day or 3500 (1lb) per week. Lift weights 2-3x a week to maintain Lean Body Mass (LBM). Job done. Just grind it out. I'm 3.5 weeks in to mine. 4 weeks on Sunday.

Koing

I see I see. Well I am not really concerned about my strength honestly. When I was 16 I probably weighed about 175 at 15% fat and I was squatting around 275. Now I am 190 and 18%... so If I lost 10lb to get to 12% fat, I'd be more muscular than before, with less fat, therefor shouldn't I at least be able to squat 275?

Right now the plan is to be under by 500 cal a day, 66% of the time, and the other 33% I will be eating exactly what I need to just maintain. I am going to *try* this diet plan out (follow Tom Venuto's diet plan which is roughly a 2300 cal/day diet, with about a 3:2:1, protein:carb:fat ratio while doing SL5x5.

I think posting on here as far as my daily calorie intake and lifting will hold me accountable, and lurkers of this sub forum can ask any questions, and also I can ask questions to the more experienced people.

I am going to do 12 weeks then reevaluate.

Should I just post all this in here, or start a new thread? Seems like a lot of other people have threads about their logs... I don't want to be a pain in the butt by making another.

 

[rga]

I see I see. Well I am not really concerned about my strength honestly. When I was 16 I probably weighed about 175 at 15% fat and I was squatting around 275. Now I am 190 and 18%... so If I lost 10lb to get to 12% fat, I'd be more muscular than before, with less fat, therefor shouldn't I at least be able to squat 275?

Right now the plan is to be under by 500 cal a day, 66% of the time, and the other 33% I will be eating exactly what I need to just maintain. I am going to *try* this diet plan out (follow Tom Venuto's diet plan which is roughly a 2300 cal/day diet, with about a 3:2:1, protein:carb:fat ratio while doing SL5x5.

I think posting on here as far as my daily calorie intake and lifting will hold me accountable, and lurkers of this sub forum can ask any questions, and also I can ask questions to the more experienced people.

I am going to do 12 weeks then reevaluate.

Should I just post all this in here, or start a new thread? Seems like a lot of other people have threads about their logs... I don't want to be a pain in the butt by making another.

It's not a pain in the butt. Thread's like Saint Nick's and Pantlegz1 keep me motivated to keep lifting; thread's like Zeze's keep me motivated too, but for different reasons: I can't talk shit if I eat junk like him, and just keep walking and doing bicep curls.

 

[Saint Nick]

Don't be shy ziggy...make a log

 

[smackababy]

It's not a pain in the butt. Thread's like Saint Nick's and Pantlegz1 keep me motivated to keep lifting; thread's like Zeze's keep me motivated too, but for different reasons: I can't talk shit if I eat junk like him, and just keep walking and doing bicep curls.

This.

I don't post much in this sub forum, but reading threads of people's progress and struggles help motivate. Some might even inspire!

And worst case scenario you might bump the locked threads about fake cancer cures and doctors being scammed off page one.

 

[z1ggy]

This.

I don't post much in this sub forum, but reading threads of people's progress and struggles help motivate. Some might even inspire!

And worst case scenario you might bump the locked threads about fake cancer cures and doctors being scammed off page one.

haha okay then!!

Normally SL5x5 starts on a Monday, but I am going to start tomorrow. No time like the present, right??

Can somebody tell me how to post pics?? I want to give you guys before and after pics. The plan will be to post what I eat for every meal, the total cals and total protein, carbs and fat. I will also post what work out I did, along with the weight and sets.

Don't laugh at first because I am starting from square one. That means bench press of 55lb, squat of 55lb row of 65lb, ohp of 45lb and deadlift of 95lb. I can obviously do more, but I think mentally, even if I start low, if I can progress every single lift for 12 weeks straight, I am more likely to keep it going rather than if I started higher weight and stalled out after 6 weeks. It will indeed be humiliating to be squatting 55lb, but fuck it... if this works I will be stronger and leaner then the posers who only lift upper body or don't bother doing compound power lifts.