To be honest I don't know exactly how it works, but when I've connected my video card to a LCD rear projection HDTV before (over DVI), there was indeed some overscan. Luckily the Nvidia driver is able to compensate for it, but the actual "displayed" resolution at 720p was something like 11xx*6xx, IIRC. Like I said, I don't know how overscan works or even why it still exists in modern TV's, but some TV's definitely still have an issue with it..
To be honest I don't know exactly how it works, but when I've connected my video card to a LCD rear projection HDTV before (over DVI), there was indeed some overscan. Luckily the Nvidia driver is able to compensate for it, but the actual "displayed" resolution at 720p was something like 11xx*6xx, IIRC. Like I said, I don't know how overscan works or even why it still exists in modern TV's, but some TV's definitely still have an issue with it..
I am not 100% qualified to answer this, but I believe most do not have straight up DVI connections, but use HDMI, though HDMI is essentially DVI with Audio and I am not sure on the differences, but it appears their are.
In the AVS Forums, the Westinghouse that people were raving about (I never tested it, I am sure it is decent model, if the say it is) had only a VGA port for PC use, which did have overscan... Why? I don't know, I just know they have overscan.
AA - You can perceive it how you like, or you can keep trying to defend/make excuses for yourself.
I informed the OP what his original choice would encompass: a modified BENQ monitor and the nuances of that set; mainly the deceptive 1920x1080 resolution of the ad.
SINCE, most future monitors would like to support 1080p due to the incoming advent of HD-DVD, BLURAY, and his usage mainly as a computer, and my own experiences with being an avid HTPC user, my suggestion for him was the 2 choices, for future-proof sake.
You instead, try to puff your chest as some "consultant", saying a lot of misinformation and assumptions which can grossly skew reasonable logic, which lead to my rebuttal was quantifiable numbers and first hand experiences thereof.
Anywho, I am really tired of your rambling and the tangent this thread has gone on.
To the OP - sorry about the side BS, anyhow these are typically the criterias you should look for in a good LCD TV:
- Size (the larger the better, with one caveat, see #2)
- Resolution (imperative when used as an HTPC / gaming system)
- Response time (for mininmal ghosting)
- Inputs (VGA, DMI, HDCP / HDMI, etc.)
- Contrast ratio (for brightness of panel)
- ATSC / input configurations (720p, 1080i, 1080p, etc.)
Good luck!
I informed the OP what his original choice would encompass: a modified BENQ monitor and the nuances of that set; mainly the deceptive 1920x1080 resolution of the ad.
SINCE, most future monitors would like to support 1080p due to the incoming advent of HD-DVD, BLURAY, and his usage mainly as a computer, and my own experiences with being an avid HTPC user, my suggestion for him was the 2 choices, for future-proof sake.
You instead, try to puff your chest as some "consultant", saying a lot of misinformation and assumptions which can grossly skew reasonable logic, which lead to my rebuttal was quantifiable numbers and first hand experiences thereof.
Anywho, I am really tired of your rambling and the tangent this thread has gone on.
To the OP - sorry about the side BS, anyhow these are typically the criterias you should look for in a good LCD TV:
- Size (the larger the better, with one caveat, see #2)
- Resolution (imperative when used as an HTPC / gaming system)
- Response time (for mininmal ghosting)
- Inputs (VGA, DMI, HDCP / HDMI, etc.)
- Contrast ratio (for brightness of panel)
- ATSC / input configurations (720p, 1080i, 1080p, etc.)
Good luck!
Rear projection LCD? Huh?
The TV probably assumed it was connected via analog and tried to adjust it. Stoopahd.
You're saying it does indeed happen with VGA or that it does indeed happen with DVI/HDMI or both? It makes perfect sense for it to happen with VGA (analog) but I believe there are no overscan problems with DVI/HDMI unless you were saying people reported it with DVI/HDMI in addition to VGA.
most consumer TV's don't have direct DVI to panel connection, but instead goes through internal deinterlacing / scaling circuitry then to the panel itself. You can see this first hand with the Sharp 45" LCDTV. ALthough it has a native 1920x1080 display panel, you cannot get better than 1376x768 pixel mapping from any source (i.e., non 1080p), unless you bypass the external AVS box and connect directly via DVI. The other variation of this model does not have an external box, thus you cannot "bypass" this limitation.
I realize that.
I'm just saying, I don't think it's necessarily consistent to knock ArchAngel's "extravagant" choice of a 7800GTX at the same time you're trying to convince him that he's "missing out on so much" by not having a 1080p display. Sure, objectively the 1080p display is better - I don't think anyone is disputing that. But with his reasoning that he wants to keep the card for a long time, the combination (his card and display) seems logical to me...
Originally posted by: xtknight
Rear projection LCD? Huh?
The TV probably assumed it was connected via analog and tried to adjust it. Stoopahd.
You're saying it does indeed happen with VGA or that it does indeed happen with DVI/HDMI or both? It makes perfect sense for it to happen with VGA (analog) but I believe there are no overscan problems with DVI/HDMI unless you were saying people reported it with DVI/HDMI in addition to VGA.
Sorry, I wasn't clear with that... Trying to do three things at once. I meant, that nearly all consumer TV's do not have a DVI port. Most have a VGA port and sometimes an HDMI port.
DVI does not introduce overscan. HDMI does, as well as VGA. I am not sure WHY HDMI overscans for users, since it is supposed to be DVI... That is why I am confused. As for VGA? I know why that does overscan.
Please stop spreading MISINFORMATION!
The Westinghouse 37", which I bought and also posted on the AVS forums, ALSO has a prefered DVI input for PC use and works great with minimal overscan (4% quantified).
Oh I see. HDMI and overscan? Yeah that's odd.
ST: Why should a deinterlacer and scaler introduce overscan? Is the video data not digital all the way through that process?
ST: Why should a deinterlacer and scaler introduce overscan? Is the video data not digital all the way through that process?
That makes sense and seems to agree with what I've read before.. In any case, it wasn't my HDTV (that I used at the time) so I haven't bothered to read up a whole lot on it.
Was just kind of surprised that there was an issue with overscan with DVI on a supposedly digital display.
Originally posted by: xtknight
Rear projection LCD? Huh?
The TV probably assumed it was connected via analog and tried to adjust it. Stoopahd.
Am I missing something?
Like I said, it wasn't my TV, but I thought it was an LCD rear projection... it definitely wasn't a direct vew LCD panel...Don't "direct-view" and "rear-projection" only refer to CRTs or have I had a bit too much virtual crack today?
I realize that.
I'm just saying, I don't think it's necessarily consistent to knock ArchAngel's "extravagant" choice of a 7800GTX at the same time you're trying to convince him that he's "missing out on so much" by not having a 1080p display. Sure, objectively the 1080p display is better - I don't think anyone is disputing that. But with his reasoning that he wants to keep the card for a long time, the combination (his card and display) seems logical to me...[/quote]
well, 2 things: 1) if the original user's intention was for that particular LCDTV set, he must have been drawn by the high native 1920x1080 resolution (i know i would), otherwise there are many other cheaper alternatives. 2) AA's insinuation that he doesn't need to spend to upgrade every year, albeit he has the latest 7800gtx, albeit on a low res display, which is perplexing. those resolutions a more value added solution (X800GTO2 / 6600GT) would suffice.
I may be misusing terms (and I apologize if that's the case), but I'm 99% certain that there exist LCD rear projection TV's too (and that the one I used was one of them)... By "direct view" I just meant a regular LCD panel, although now that you mention it, I think I have only really heard that particular term used to describe CRT's.
Edit: I believe the TV was this one or one very similar to it.
If you scroll up, I had said that most consumer level TV's have between 5 and 15 percent overscan. I guess in this case, I was 1% off. Wow, you sure showed me...
Anyway, asside from that, overscan is overscan... I am not sure how I am spreading misinformation when you admit that the DVI port for the Westinghouse is around 4% overscan.
But anyway, keep trying to attack my statements.
it shouldn't...but again depending on implementation, there may be some AD / DA conversions that we're not aware of.
I doubt DVI goes through deinterlacing...rather only the output from the 8VSB/8PSK/QAM/whatever demodulator.
My external HDTV tuner inputs 1080i and outputs DVI, and it's already scaled and deinterlaced to fit my 1280x1024 desktop LCD just fine. I'm sure my desktop LCD has no deinterlacing capability in it (well pretty sure? it's not marketed as "LCD TV/multimedia LCD"). I have no overscan/side margin issues at all with it. Zilch.
My external HDTV tuner inputs 1080i and outputs DVI, and it's already scaled and deinterlaced to fit my 1280x1024 desktop LCD just fine. I'm sure my desktop LCD has no deinterlacing capability in it (well pretty sure? it's not marketed as "LCD TV/multimedia LCD"). I have no overscan/side margin issues at all with it. Zilch.
"the Westinghouse that people were raving about (I never tested it, I am sure it is decent model, if the say it is) had only a VGA port for PC use"
:rolleyes
You know...we're getting way off track here, but I've always wondered about something. My HDTV tuner (PCI) also can output DVI (separately from the video card), at a maximum resolution of 1080i. I can connect this to my 2005FPW just fine, and the signal is displayed by my monitor OSD as "1920x1080 30Hz" (usually - sometimes it displays weird numbers for some resaon). In any case, in Full scaling mode, the signal always looks right... and looks noticeably better than 720p sometimes. If my tuner isn't deinterlacing the signal (since I don't think it's outputting a 1080p signal), then is my LCD?
Originally posted by: ST
I realize that.
I'm just saying, I don't think it's necessarily consistent to knock ArchAngel's "extravagant" choice of a 7800GTX at the same time you're trying to convince him that he's "missing out on so much" by not having a 1080p display. Sure, objectively the 1080p display is better - I don't think anyone is disputing that. But with his reasoning that he wants to keep the card for a long time, the combination (his card and display) seems logical to me...
well, 2 things: 1) if the original user's intention was for that particular LCDTV set, he must have been drawn by the high native 1920x1080 resolution (i know i would), otherwise there are many other cheaper alternatives. 2) AA's insinuation that he doesn't need to spend to upgrade every year, albeit he has the latest 7800gtx, albeit on a low res display, which is perplexing. those resolutions a more value added solution (X800GTO2 / 6600GT) would suffice.[/quote]
You still don't get the point. But let me say this, a 6600 GT won't last three years for games PERIOD. You are talking about the NOW, I am talking about the FUTURE... I shouldn't even have to explain this, it should be common sense.
Wow, you really are out for blood aren't you? Do you think it is possible that Westinghouse in some attempt to keep up with technology and sales intruduced new models with new features?!?! Say it isn't so!
Actually most TV/Monitor's do go through interlacing, because the source is unpredictable (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i). In the case of your hdtv tuner box, you're probably correct, it may be internally deinterlaced and outputs at 720p (most likely). it will have scaling functionality to map out other resolutions to your 1280x1024 panel resolution though.
Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
You know...we're getting way off track here, but I've always wondered about something. My HDTV tuner (PCI) also can output DVI (separately from the video card), at a maximum resolution of 1080i. I can connect this to my 2005FPW just fine, and the signal is displayed by my monitor OSD as "1920x1080 30Hz" (usually - sometimes it displays weird numbers for some resaon). In any case, in Full scaling mode, the signal always looks right... and looks noticeably better than 720p sometimes. If my tuner isn't deinterlacing the signal (since I don't think it's outputting a 1080p signal), then is my LCD?
My LCD also shows 1080i (with no mention of refresh rate) in the OSD. Confusing.
have you taken your medicine today?
THE ONLY WESTINGHOUSE that AVS forums raves about is the 37" 1920x1080p monitor as seen at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=531808&page=53&pp=30 in all its glorious 53 pages. Or would you care to enlighten us on this "other" one that only has a VGA port you are insinuating?
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