Used Games Can Be Solved Very Easily: Cheaper Downloadable Games

[cmdrdredd]

Sony still isn't going to allow a free-for-all like Google Play. You need to send in a concept of your game (closer to demo-ready the better), then they'll give you feedback which you can do whatever with. I think they still reserve the right to reject your game if it's clearly a "my first game" attempt, they do not need that stuff cluttering up their store.

That isn't the same as "Sony charges a fee".

Still there is no barrier for being able to purchase download codes from wherever like a PC game. They just wanna retain the full control of the price and that's all there is to it. Which is fine, I actually prefer the disk. Most of my steam collection came from the disk I bought at a B&M location.

 

[Midwayman]

They are. Its called F2P. Its not a good model, and much less friendly to consumers than simply limited used sales. That and games getting smaller with DLC subscription packs. The conclusion being that they can't make money on disc sales so they'll nickle and dime you to death instead.

 

[desura]

Thing is, has this ever been implemented in any digital goods store? The problem is when you can make an exact replica of a piece of content, there's no idea of "used". There's no such thing as a used MP3, or used Kindle book, or used iTunes movie.

That's the idea though. I have no problem with game companies wanting to stop the flow of used games. I mean, I'm interested in the gaming experience. I don't care about the submarket at some stinky gamestop. For most games, the main expense is really your time, not the upfront cost of the game itself.

trying to bar disc-based games from working across owners is stupid, I do believe. Moving to a digital download future is how to do it. You offer a new service + restrictions. You don't try to graft restrictions onto existing service medium.

 

[BrightCandle]

You have to remember that on PC there is a noticeable and growing group of people that are wanting to avoid digitial downloads. Because all forms of DRM, including the basic ones that come with locking you into an account, have consequences to the experience. DRM has never made a customer happier, it has only ever made them very very unhappy. Customers have learned over the last 6 years that any form of DRM can be bad, and most of them learnt that because they were burnt by it.

So far the majority of Steam customers have not been burnt, but that is likely because they haven't asked for a refund on a broken product. Once they do that they will realise that they have diminished rights and want to avoid Steam as well.

Honest truth is we should not be welcoming this massively diminished set of rights, taking a product and converting it into a service which has no limits of service that must be maintained is not acceptable. Here in the UK the government is drafting law inline with the rest of Europe to counter this harmful impact on customer rights, largely after the absolute disaster of games like Sim City. The Xbox One and the PS4 will both have their Sim City moments and from that point on its going to go badly for that model on those consoles.

This technology can never work reliably, its impossible. Its unnecessary, it fails to stop piracy, its an anti feature.

 

[ImpulsE69]

You have to remember that on PC there is a noticeable and growing group of people that are wanting to avoid digitial downloads. Because all forms of DRM, including the basic ones that come with locking you into an account, have consequences to the experience. DRM has never made a customer happier, it has only ever made them very very unhappy. Customers have learned over the last 6 years that any form of DRM can be bad, and most of them learnt that because they were burnt by it.

So far the majority of Steam customers have not been burnt, but that is likely because they haven't asked for a refund on a broken product. Once they do that they will realize that they have diminished rights and want to avoid Steam as well.

Honest truth is we should not be welcoming this massively diminished set of rights, taking a product and converting it into a service which has no limits of service that must be maintained is not acceptable. Here in the UK the government is drafting law inline with the rest of Europe to counter this harmful impact on customer rights, largely after the absolute disaster of games like Sim City. The Xbox One and the PS4 will both have their Sim City moments and from that point on its going to go badly for that model on those consoles.

This technology can never work reliably, its impossible. Its unnecessary, it fails to stop piracy, its an anti feature.

Again most of that comes down to cost. That is why Steam has done so well. There's a big difference between buying 1 product for $60 and 6+ products for $60.

I compare it to door charge to get into local club shows. Those prices haven't went up for 20 years, and they aren't likely to. People get accustomed to paying a certain amount with a certain amount of return. When you diminish those returns or raise prices beyond what they deem acceptable, they'll just go do something else they find more valuable. There are many avenues for entertainment. This isn't like gasoline where you have no alternatives (no, let's not get into a debate about vehicles/walking etc, I'm making a point).

When you put out quality products repeatedly, people will pay that premium, but when you burn them (which seems about everyone these days), they are less likely to, and you can't keep charging a premium just because your business model is broken and you are spending too much on development and marketing. It's not the customers fault you can't manage money. I think this is the big thing many people are missing. People keep spouting off "well games cost so much to make". Guess what? To the average person that means NOTHING. It has no bearing on the conversation when it comes to someone actually buying your product. If you can't make the product at a price people will pay, then you need to re-evaluate your process.

 

[Nintendesert]

You have to remember that on PC there is a noticeable and growing group of people that are wanting to avoid digitial downloads. Because all forms of DRM, including the basic ones that come with locking you into an account, have consequences to the experience. DRM has never made a customer happier, it has only ever made them very very unhappy. Customers have learned over the last 6 years that any form of DRM can be bad, and most of them learnt that because they were burnt by it.

So far the majority of Steam customers have not been burnt, but that is likely because they haven't asked for a refund on a broken product. Once they do that they will realise that they have diminished rights and want to avoid Steam as well.

Honest truth is we should not be welcoming this massively diminished set of rights, taking a product and converting it into a service which has no limits of service that must be maintained is not acceptable. Here in the UK the government is drafting law inline with the rest of Europe to counter this harmful impact on customer rights, largely after the absolute disaster of games like Sim City. The Xbox One and the PS4 will both have their Sim City moments and from that point on its going to go badly for that model on those consoles.

This technology can never work reliably, its impossible. Its unnecessary, it fails to stop piracy, its an anti feature.

I think what Europe is doing and has done is great. The consumer comes first rather than catering to companies just trying to milk everyone dry.

STEAM should be allowing Europeans to sell their game licenses from their accounts in the near future as that's the law now in the EU. It's good to see the UK doing similar though I've not read any news stories about it and just have your account of it.

Companies have to start offering long term value for keeping their license and giving consumers a reason not to sell their games. Making people pay $60 for a 6 hour experience leads to this rampant resale market. Nintendo gets it, their response in the other thread is offer people a product they want to cherish and keep long term.

The law has shown and I think will continue to show in the US eventually, that changing the medium doesn't mean you can gain more sales through the violation of consumer rights. Whether through CDs, DVDs, BluRays or Downloadable the consumer still has rights with the licenses they purchase. Companies need to learn from Nintendo in relation to software and Nintendo needs to learn a thing or two about hardware.

 

[desura]

Eh, unlike the rest of you, I'm not hung up on "consumer rights".

If I make a bad purchase, that's my fault and no one else's. Steam is very fair.

I'm more concerned about how lousy games have become now that they're so cutscene heavy and with everything resetting after like 2 minutes, continuous good gameplay isn't necessary. Seriously, for most FPS campaigns now, being sloppy will get you just as far as being precise, as it all ends at a cutscene after which everything is reset.

 

[Nintendesert]

Eh, unlike the rest of you, I'm not hung up on "consumer rights".

If I make a bad purchase, that's my fault and no one else's. Steam is very fair.

I'm more concerned about how lousy games have become now that they're so cutscene heavy and with everything resetting after like 2 minutes, continuous good gameplay isn't necessary. Seriously, for most FPS campaigns now, being sloppy will get you just as far as being precise, as it all ends at a cutscene after which everything is reset.

Right, you're not hung up on consumer rights until you get screwed on a car purchase, a TV or something else like that. It's all tied together, just because gives you good deals today doesn't mean they always will. That's why protecting established rights is important. It's not just this type of entertainment that gets affected by the loss of consumer rights.

Ask yourself what would have happened to STEAM had Valve been bought by EA like was rumored in the not too distant past? It was bogus, but Gabe isn't going to live forever. He's a pretty fat guy and fat guys have a tendency to drop dead.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Right, you're not hung up on consumer rights until you get screwed on a car purchase, a TV or something else like that. It's all tied together, just because gives you good deals today doesn't mean they always will. That's why protecting established rights is important. It's not just this type of entertainment that gets affected by the loss of consumer rights.

Ask yourself what would have happened to STEAM had Valve been bought by EA like was rumored in the not too distant past? It was bogus, but Gabe isn't going to live forever. He's a pretty fat guy and fat guys have a tendency to drop dead.

Exactly... it "never affects me" until it actually does affect you and you lose money.

It's not exactly hard to see what I had a problem with. If I decide to keep my console for 15 years and pull it out to show my nephew one day what games looked like way back when he was a baby, I'll should always be able to plug it in and pop in the disk and play. Requiring online only DRM means that one day in the future those servers handling the DRM checks are gone. Then all my games are gone.

 

[ImpulsE69]

There's a split between the keep value culture and the throw away culture. That is why people think differently about it. These days many people have a use it and toss it attitude while many of us older folk like long term value.

 

[desura]

Right, you're not hung up on consumer rights until you get screwed on a car purchase, a TV or something else like that. It's all tied together, just because gives you good deals today doesn't mean they always will. That's why protecting established rights is important. It's not just this type of entertainment that gets affected by the loss of consumer rights.

Ask yourself what would have happened to STEAM had Valve been bought by EA like was rumored in the not too distant past? It was bogus, but Gabe isn't going to live forever. He's a pretty fat guy and fat guys have a tendency to drop dead.

Cars are expensive.

Video games are not.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Cars are expensive.

Video games are not.

Is that why I have spent close to $5,000 this past few years on Video games and the hardware to play them? Granted about half of that was on a PC, but mostly I game on it.

 

[Bateluer]

That's how it is on PC. Generally games are $10 cheaper. .

Lol, no.

Everything is full price, plus the extra 50-100 dollars you can spend on DLC.
http://store2.origin.com/store/ea/cat/pc-games/categoryID.8831900


On Steam,

Bioshock Infinite: 59.99
Company of Heroes 2: 59.99
Metro Last Light: 49.99

All full retail MSRP for these games. They'll be discounted 10% at launch sometimes, and they'll go on sale after some time, but they launch at full price.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Lol, no.

Everything is full price, plus the extra 50-100 dollars you can spend on DLC.
http://store2.origin.com/store/ea/cat/pc-games/categoryID.8831900


On Steam,

Bioshock Infinite: 59.99
Company of Heroes 2: 59.99
Metro Last Light: 49.99

All full retail MSRP for these games. They'll be discounted 10% at launch sometimes, and they'll go on sale after some time, but they launch at full price.

You really have no idea how wrong you are on this. Not going to bother pointing out why you are wrong.

 

[Bateluer]

You really have no idea how wrong you are on this. Not going to bother pointing out why you are wrong.

I'll take that to mean 1)You never buy games at launch through an electronic medium, and 2)you're utterly unable to find any supporting evidence to back up your claim because a quick view at the new releases on Steam and Origin are ALL full retail pricing.

When games are launched on Steam, they are at full retail price. Sometimes, Steam puts them on a 10% off as a launch special, but not always. Eventually, they'll be on sale for much cheaper, but at launch, always full retail.

EA didn't like the Steam sales, which is the primary reason for Origin, where next to nothing ever goes on sales and the Origin game prices stay at full retail pricing for several months.


Its the same for ebooks too, mostly thanks to Apple. Most ebooks are the price as their printed counterparts.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Remember how Steam isn't the only way to get digital games? I looked up a pre-order for batman arkham origins. Steam doesn't have this title listed.

Batman Arkham Origins pre-order $59.99 from amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Warner-Bros-Di...arkham+origins

Batman Arkham Origins pre-order $49.99 from GMG
http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/us/en/pc/games/action/batman-arkham-origins/

 

[ImpulsE69]

I'll take that to mean 1)You never buy games at launch through an electronic medium, and 2)you're utterly unable to find any supporting evidence to back up your claim because a quick view at the new releases on Steam and Origin are ALL full retail pricing.

When games are launched on Steam, they are at full retail price. Sometimes, Steam puts them on a 10% off as a launch special, but not always. Eventually, they'll be on sale for much cheaper, but at launch, always full retail.

EA didn't like the Steam sales, which is the primary reason for Origin, where next to nothing ever goes on sales and the Origin game prices stay at full retail pricing for several months.


Its the same for ebooks too, mostly thanks to Apple. Most ebooks are the price as their printed counterparts.

No, you are wrong. It's only been covered about a dozen times in all these threads. Steam isn't the only place to buy games. In fact, most times, Steam is the last place you want to buy a game day 1 because everyone else has it cheaper. Competition, this is the root of everything we've been talking about for weeks.

Just like Gamestop isn't the only place to buy/sell used games, Steam isn't the only place to buy PC games (even if a majority can be activated on Steam).

 

[KaOTiK]

Remember how Steam isn't the only way to get digital games? I looked up a pre-order for batman arkham origins. Steam doesn't have this title listed.

Batman Arkham Origins pre-order $59.99 from amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Warner-Bros-Di...arkham+origins

Batman Arkham Origins pre-order $49.99 from GMG
http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/us/en/pc/games/action/batman-arkham-origins/

For the Batman AO thing. There is a current GMG 20% off coupon (they have these nearly all the time) that works on it bringing it down to $40. Normally though, on the PC it is better to wait closer to release date as that is when all the digital distro's tend to roll out there deals.

Steam is usually not the best place to preorder a game though, unless you really want the hats (which can net you like $10 ish back if you sell them right away).

 

[Sulaco]

Cars are expensive.

Video games are not.

What an utterly asinine argument.

"I'm ok with unfair business practices because the money isn't as much".

And you wonder why your opinion is in the minority? You are the problem.

 

[BrightCandle]

My major issue with how the DRM argument has gone over the last decade is most people failed to listen to the warnings of the experts and now too to the people who have been burnt. They told us that we needed to heed their warnings that it would damage our rights, that digital rights management would harm us and the industry. We have people here now showing the value of a DRM product is much lower, expectations of $10 instead of $60! I think this is why the publishers are now shying away from it.

But many of us have now been hurt by this multiple times and become very vary of it. What I wish would happen is that those who haven't yet been burnt to go read stories from people who have and imagine the next game they buy does that to them. Because that is the reality of what will happen, every customer will end up buying a product they can't get to work at some point, and be out of pocket because of it. At that point you will have been ripped off, scammed and have no legal recourse. Its not right and you won't think its OK after its happened either. Paying money for a game that you can't play is fraud and should be covered by consumer rights. We have the right for the money we pay to result in a product that comes as advertised. That is the same for a 50 cent chocolate bar as it is for a car. Equally I can buy a chocolate bar and sell it somewhere else at profit/loss. That is the essence of trade and games don't need to be different. Corporations might want to make it different, I am sure you washing machine company would love to charge you a monthly fee for your machine every month, but thankfully you have laws protecting you against such a ridiculously unnecessary notion.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I remember crysis warhead. I used it as a benchmark to compare an upgrade, and then compare video cards. Eventually it told me I have exceeded the install limit. So I either don't use it or find a crack somewhere which is grey area/illegal anyhow.

 

[exdeath]

No it won't. The used game debate isn't about games, its a test of the principle of ownership and property rights.

 

[clok1966]

solved? is it a problem? there is nothing in this world that you cant resell except food (and people). Any thing that has a value, and can be transferred so both parties don't have a copy is sold.

THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM, its something we have done since goods had value.

The only thing that changed is Gamestop (and others) found a way to make gobs of money easy, some others saw this and wanted in on that money. So they changed the way we purchase, and becuase it was wrong, failed.

EA had a digital service and put no effort into it, in fact most prices where worse then the hardcopy, STEAM comes along and does it right, now EA wants in... I CALL BULLWHIT!

same with MS and the Xbox.. gamestop made tons of money on used game (way to much in my opinion) now MS wanted a piece of that easy action..

There is no PROBLEM with used games..

 

[Oyeve]

I always wonder why people keep saying lower the price. You do realize that in the last 30+ years the average price of a video game has only gone up 10 bucks? I remember Pac Man for the atari 2600 cost 60-70 bucks in 1982. Thats like 1000000000000 in 2013 dollars.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I always wonder why people keep saying lower the price. You do realize that in the last 30+ years the average price of a video game has only gone up 10 bucks? I remember Pac Man for the atari 2600 cost 60-70 bucks in 1982. Thats like 1000000000000 in 2013 dollars.

Context anyone? We are talking about a digital game with no disk, no case, no artwork fees, just released digital only and drop the price due to reduced distribution costs.