I'm Typing
Golden Member
60%???!?!?!?!?!
I DEMAND A RECOUNT!!!!
I DEMAND A RECOUNT!!!!
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USA: 60% think that "god created earth" is science
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Oh yeah, if the church is always right, our earth is still flat, we are still the center of the universe with everything going around us. Come on people, science may not be absolutely right, but at least there has to be some facts to back up a theory. You cannot just go around telling everybody that gravity exists. Every scientific theory has to go through lots of experiment and research, and has to stand up to criticism of many intelligent people, and backup by facts and discovery. And most importantly, scientific theories can be changed or disproved by anyone as new facts and discoveries are made.
Unlike science, religion asks people to have faith in the church and believe whatever it says.
There are facts and findings proving that earth is more than few thousand years. Have you all heard of dinosaurs?? How many years ago do you think they run on the earth?? few hundred years ago??
Gee, it is good to have faith in god, but it is another story to close your mind to possibilities and learn about new discoveries. Actually many scientist believe that there is God even as they make more discovery because it is hard to believe every thing in the universe is created at random, there are so may rules and pattern in it. But the way God exist may not be how Christianity/Muslim/Buddhism described, everything we have about religion is written by people, and there is no reason to make these things the absolute final truth.
Go read your science books, don't use religion as an excuse not to study science!!
Unlike science, religion asks people to have faith in the church and believe whatever it says.
There are facts and findings proving that earth is more than few thousand years. Have you all heard of dinosaurs?? How many years ago do you think they run on the earth?? few hundred years ago??
Gee, it is good to have faith in god, but it is another story to close your mind to possibilities and learn about new discoveries. Actually many scientist believe that there is God even as they make more discovery because it is hard to believe every thing in the universe is created at random, there are so may rules and pattern in it. But the way God exist may not be how Christianity/Muslim/Buddhism described, everything we have about religion is written by people, and there is no reason to make these things the absolute final truth.
Go read your science books, don't use religion as an excuse not to study science!!
don't use religion as an excuse not to study science!!
Did anybody here say they were doing that?
There is absolutely no reason to discredit the majority of scientific fact. Most of it has been proven repeatedly, and is in no way contradictory to the Christian faith. Evolution, however, is a theory at BEST, and IS contradictory to the Christian faith. See the picture?
Viper GTS
Did anybody here say they were doing that?
There is absolutely no reason to discredit the majority of scientific fact. Most of it has been proven repeatedly, and is in no way contradictory to the Christian faith. Evolution, however, is a theory at BEST, and IS contradictory to the Christian faith. See the picture?
Viper GTS
Preyhunter
Golden Member
I never said not to study science, I merely suggested removing evolution from the curriculum. Stick with the things that can be proven and recreated in the lab.
Evolution is a theory that cannot be proven and is still full of holes. People that believe in evolution have chosen to put their faith in it due to the fact that it seems reasonable and believable to them. As far as they're concerned, the conclusions drawn from the theory of evolution most likely explain how we got here. Looking at it from a Christian's perspective, one would probably have to be a Christian to understand how they draw their conclusions.
Evolution is a theory that cannot be proven and is still full of holes. People that believe in evolution have chosen to put their faith in it due to the fact that it seems reasonable and believable to them. As far as they're concerned, the conclusions drawn from the theory of evolution most likely explain how we got here. Looking at it from a Christian's perspective, one would probably have to be a Christian to understand how they draw their conclusions.
"Oh yeah, if the church is always right, our earth is still flat, we are still the center of the universe with everything going around us."
You're right the church isn't always right, because churches are led by men and are capable of bad desicions just like the rest of us.
"Unlike science, religion asks people to have faith in the church and believe whatever"
No, religion is faith in a higher being, this has nothing to do with the church. The church is a very different thing that religion, religion being a personal belief and the church being a corporate body.
I do not see anything wrong with believing in evolution and having religious faith.
You're right the church isn't always right, because churches are led by men and are capable of bad desicions just like the rest of us.
"Unlike science, religion asks people to have faith in the church and believe whatever"
No, religion is faith in a higher being, this has nothing to do with the church. The church is a very different thing that religion, religion being a personal belief and the church being a corporate body.
I do not see anything wrong with believing in evolution and having religious faith.
Just thought I'd contribute to this.
Someone above made the statement that evolution can not be proven, that it was a belief. There is some error to that assertion. Let's take a look at viruses for example.
Viruses evolve very rapidly. These half-lifeforms can change literally before your eyes when exposed to outside influences. The flu virus that attacks humans changes approximately every other year (why you need a shot every other year, and that only works about 50% of the time), however, there are flu viruses which attack virtually every living thing on the planet (including fish!). These viruses evolve through mutation, just as many other things on the planet (just like plants).
Oh, and plants! We have very good fossilized records of plants over the last billion or so years, and their evolution is amazing! We even have the cellular level of plants preserved in stone, so we can get a good idea what they were like. And what a story they tell! Did you ever wonder how herbivore dinosaurs got so big and plentiful? The initial structure of plants in the ancient days was very simple, which meant simple stomachs could eat everything.. I mean everything. Back 60,000,000 years ago, everything was edible. Today, plants have a much more starchy texture, and they have developed poisons, thorns, or just plain bad taste to dissuade animals from grazing. These things weren't present 60 million years ago. Plants have evolved to protect themselves from grazing animals. Oh, and animals (like cows, for instance), have evolved too. Cows went from having one stomach to seven. This is because it takes all seven of their stomachs to break down the starchy plant material.
Humans haven't needed to develop additional stomachs because we cook our food. Cooking begins the process of breaking starches to sugars, so we skipped that evolution mutation.
One more tidbit of knowledge. Humans lack the ability to digest raw potatos. If you eat a raw potato, you won't get any calories or nutrients from it. We almost can, but without cooking a potato, our digestive system isn't strong enough to break it down before passing it through. So there is a diet plan for you... tasteless raw potatos. You wont feel hungry, but you also wont get nutrients from it.
About religion vs. science, I find people who cling to either extreme rather unbearable. However, the Religious people who insist on slandering the work of dedicated researchers just irk me. People dedicate their lives to expand human awareness, and what they get is some zealot maligning them and their work on the basis that he can't find a reference to it in some book written 1800 years ago (oh, by the way, the new testament of the bible was actually written 1800 years ago or so, before that it was passed on by word of mouth. It wasn't allowed to be written down... little published fact for you).
Well, I shan't rant. We have plenty of people here who are far more skilled at that than I.
I just wanted to point out that evolution isn't a belief. It is a theory (human evolving from apes), but evolution itself is easily provable.
A couple of comments;
1)A definition - Faith: noun. Firm belief in something for which there is no proof. (Just because you have faith in somthing doesn't make it fact)
2) Difference Between Evolution and Evolution Theory.
a. Evolution is FACT things on this planet evolved from lower life forms. (Even the catholic church agrees with that)
b. Evolution theory is just that theory (we evolved from monkeys)
1)A definition - Faith: noun. Firm belief in something for which there is no proof. (Just because you have faith in somthing doesn't make it fact)
2) Difference Between Evolution and Evolution Theory.
a. Evolution is FACT things on this planet evolved from lower life forms. (Even the catholic church agrees with that)
b. Evolution theory is just that theory (we evolved from monkeys)
Preyhunter
Golden Member
I would consider that type of evolution that you refer to as "adaptation" for purposes of survival. I totally agree that living organisms can do that. The whole evolutionary theory that we evolved from a little drop of goo in a mud puddle CANNOT be proven and is full of holes. Scientists have attempted to prove it, but all have fallen short. If that bothers you, I'm sorry. You will need to take that up with the scientists that failed you.
I just can't beleive how many people here who base their lives on technology and science still doubt evolution. The example on virii is an excellent on and offers a snapshot of what evolution can do. Darwin's books offers stronger evidence with "less holes" than anything creationist have told me. And people wonder why the US is slowly dropping in international standing when it comes to math and sciences. Reminds of of the "Great Leader" episode of The Simpson's.
Mrs. Krabbapple: Who created the sun and the stars?
Bart: The leader did ma'am
Windogg
Mrs. Krabbapple: Who created the sun and the stars?
Bart: The leader did ma'am
Windogg
BoberFett
Those numbers are from the site, they did not come from my calculatins, but sorry for not thinking for myself and taking it just as it says.
Preyhunter
well, what I can I say, I enjoy talking about this. Creationism is religion because it is drawn from religion, evolution is science because it was thought through science.
Viper GTS
don't use religion as an excuse not to study science!! >>> because the church didnt think evulation was true then it took decades for the world to take it seriosly. It has been the same allways, someone figures something out that the church doesnt belive and then the church bans it. The church has to much power.
Kosugi
very good post 🙂
If creationism is science, then why dont they teach every way every religion in the world tells us the world was created?
Those numbers are from the site, they did not come from my calculatins, but sorry for not thinking for myself and taking it just as it says.
Preyhunter
well, what I can I say, I enjoy talking about this. Creationism is religion because it is drawn from religion, evolution is science because it was thought through science.
Viper GTS
don't use religion as an excuse not to study science!! >>> because the church didnt think evulation was true then it took decades for the world to take it seriosly. It has been the same allways, someone figures something out that the church doesnt belive and then the church bans it. The church has to much power.
Kosugi
very good post 🙂
If creationism is science, then why dont they teach every way every religion in the world tells us the world was created?
KarsinTheHutt
Golden Member
Well, as "Big Brother" of 1984 puts it: "Ignorance is Bliss"
Of course both sides of this debate claim the other is ignorant so:
SHUT THE FSCK UP!
Of course both sides of this debate claim the other is ignorant so:
SHUT THE FSCK UP!
It has been the same allways, someone figures something out that the church doesnt belive and then the church bans it. The church has to much power.
The "church" does not dictate what I believe. I think you're probably considering the Catholic church, which is rather notorious for doing such things. In that case you're relying on men, which we've already established to be fallible.
Plants have evolved to protect themselves from grazing animals
That gives plants a lot more credit than they deserve. If they have that capability, wouldn't it have made a lot more sense to sprout legs & run like hell?
Viper GTS
The "church" does not dictate what I believe. I think you're probably considering the Catholic church, which is rather notorious for doing such things. In that case you're relying on men, which we've already established to be fallible.
Plants have evolved to protect themselves from grazing animals
That gives plants a lot more credit than they deserve. If they have that capability, wouldn't it have made a lot more sense to sprout legs & run like hell?
Viper GTS
Preyhunter
Golden Member
<< I just can't beleive how many people here who base their lives on technology and science still doubt evolution. The example on virii is an excellent on and offers a snapshot of what evolution can do. Darwin's books offers stronger evidence with "less holes" than anything creationist have told me. >>
The example of virii is an excellent example when comparing it to other virii.
"Less holes" is still holes. We are free to choose what we want to believe in.
kami
Lifer
Nice post Kusagi...you hit the money with your reference to simple stomachs and simple plants & how both have evolved...I've read the same stuff before numerous times.
anyway, evolution and creationism are both matters of faith since neither are proven. I just chose evolution because it makes the most sense to me and has more data to back it up.
TalkOrigins - interesting site
anyway, evolution and creationism are both matters of faith since neither are proven. I just chose evolution because it makes the most sense to me and has more data to back it up.
TalkOrigins - interesting site
I think many people do not understand what evolution is. It doesn't mean than anything changes to suit a need. Evolution is when a trait or mutation in a species gives an advantage over another species. This advantage can be natural, artificial, or accidental.
In modern times this can be seen in England during the industrial revolution. Before the advent of coal-fired industry, white moths had an advantage. They easily blended into it birch trees while dark or speckled moth were easy targets for predators like birds. When the burning of coal began, dark and speckled moth gained the upper hand as the landscape was covered by a layer of soot.
The same is true with human. Our ancestors like Homo-Erectus had an advantage over a similar knuckle walker species. An upright primate can better spot predators, reach food that would be otherwise in accessable, run faster, jump higher, etc..
In Kosugi's example. All the easy to eat plans were rendered extinct while those that had properties to discourage predators lived and florished.
In modern times this can be seen in England during the industrial revolution. Before the advent of coal-fired industry, white moths had an advantage. They easily blended into it birch trees while dark or speckled moth were easy targets for predators like birds. When the burning of coal began, dark and speckled moth gained the upper hand as the landscape was covered by a layer of soot.
The same is true with human. Our ancestors like Homo-Erectus had an advantage over a similar knuckle walker species. An upright primate can better spot predators, reach food that would be otherwise in accessable, run faster, jump higher, etc..
In Kosugi's example. All the easy to eat plans were rendered extinct while those that had properties to discourage predators lived and florished.
NaughtyusMaximus
Diamond Member
Thank you Windogg.
Preyhunter
Golden Member
<< I'd rather take a lifeboat with 1 hole over a lifeboat with 1000 holes. >>
That's the whole point. This isn't the life that I'm concerned about. Gotta be able to see it from both perspectives, and it is hard to see it from the Christianity perspective if you do not share the same belief set.
OK, allow me to re-phrase my question:
Why didn't the plants that had ALREADY sprouted legs run like hell, leaving only the non-legged varieties to suffer an untimely death at the hands of the dinos?
The fact is that genetic abnormalities are practically 100% DETRIMENTAL to the well-being of a species. The idea that we've progressed as far as we have due to what are essentially defects is rather preposterous.
Viper GTS
Why didn't the plants that had ALREADY sprouted legs run like hell, leaving only the non-legged varieties to suffer an untimely death at the hands of the dinos?
The fact is that genetic abnormalities are practically 100% DETRIMENTAL to the well-being of a species. The idea that we've progressed as far as we have due to what are essentially defects is rather preposterous.
Viper GTS
Total Refected Power
Diamond Member
Viper:
Plants had other advantages of being able to seed themselves far and wide. Thus, their survival was assured and required moderate adaptation. Plus, there were pressures on the dinosaurs that kept them from ingesting every possible plant.
Plants had other advantages of being able to seed themselves far and wide. Thus, their survival was assured and required moderate adaptation. Plus, there were pressures on the dinosaurs that kept them from ingesting every possible plant.
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