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US trying to "promote" democracy in South America

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Venezuela seems to be targeted? Why would they choose Venezuela? I just can't figure this out!!

Will someone help me please??

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Venezuela Petroleum and Politics

OAS members balk at U.S. intervention plan
Venezuela's foreign minister says plan aimed at his country

Monday, June 6, 2005 Posted: 10:52 PM EDT (0252 GMT)

FORT LAUDERDALE, Florida (CNN) -- A U.S. proposal to intervene in Western Hemisphere nations to push democracy rankled the leaders of several South American countries debating the issue Monday at the meeting of the Organization of American States.

"There needs to be a dialogue rather than an intervention," said Brazil's foreign minister, Celso Amorim. "Democracy cannot be imposed. It is born from dialogue."

The United States has not established how or where the OAS should intervene, but one likely target is Venezuela. The OAS also is concerned about political instability in Ecuador and Bolivia.

The Bush administration has accused Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez of using his country's democratic institutions to impose authoritarian rule. Venezuela is a member of OAS.

Venezuelan Foreign Minister Rodriguez told reporters the proposal "seems as if it is aimed against a single country."

Representatives of the 34-nation OAS are in Florida for a three-day summit with the theme of "Delivering the Benefits of Democracy." It is the first time since 1974 that the annual meeting has taken place on U.S. soil.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who chairs the summit as head of the host delegation, said Sunday the Bush administration has a "renewed interest" in the OAS as a way to promote its global democracy agenda. (Full story)

The U.S. proposal calls for the OAS to craft a mechanism within its Democratic Charter that permits the group to intervene in nations to foster or strengthen democracy.

In the 2001 charter, member nations pledged to protect one another's democracies.

The proposal has met opposition from countries other than Venezuela, including Bolivia and Chile, whose leaders see it as interfering in their internal affairs.

Chile introduced a counter-proposal backed by at least 10 other OAS nations, including Brazil.

The Chilean plan, described as offering a "middle-ground," asks OAS Secretary-General Jose Miguel Insulza to study how the organization has used the Democratic Charter since its inception and recommend ways to make it more effective.

Venezuela's Rodriguez noted that as an oil exporter his nation has strong economic ties to the United States and warned that U.S. intervention efforts could jeopardize that economic relationship.

"We are not doing anything in order to change the policies, the decisions of the government of the United States. So we ask for the same treatment with Venezuela," he said.

The OAS has previously intervened in situations of political turmoil. In 2000, it sent an envoy to Peru following fraudulent elections. More recently, OAS countries formed a "Friends of Venezuela" group to mediate between the government and the opposition.

Insulza, who has embraced some of the Bush administration's ideas for strengthening the OAS to more actively promote democracy, said he did not believe the organization should intervene in any country without the agreement of that nation's government.

"We can never use any mechanism without the consent of the country," Insulza told reporters. "If the states don't want something, then nothing will be done."

The group, founded in 1948 to promote and defend democracy, has historically not been able to resolve crises in the hemisphere.

The OAS is particularly concerned about political strife in Ecuador. That nation's congress voted voted unanimously in April to remove President Lucio Gutierrez amid enormous public outcry against him.

Instability also lingers in Bolivia, where demonstrators are threatening President Carlos Mesa and calling for a constitutional overhaul. The Bolivian government has resisted OAS intervention. (Full story)

In an address to the group Monday, President Bush did not mention the U.S. intervention proposal, but he pushed his vision of extending democracy worldwide. (Full story)

"Bringing a better life to our people requires choosing between two competing visions," he said. "One ... is founded on representative government, integration into the world markets.

"...The other seeks to roll back the democratic progress of the past two decades by playing to fear, pitting neighbor against neighbor and blaming others for their own failures to provide for their people."
 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Venezuela seems to be targeted? Why would they choose Venezuela? I just can't figure this out!!

In an address to the group Monday, President Bush did not mention the U.S. intervention proposal, but he pushed his vision of extending democracy worldwide. (Full story)

"Bringing a better life to our people requires choosing between two competing visions," he said. "One ... is founded on representative government, integration into the world markets.

"...The other seeks to roll back the democratic progress of the past two decades by playing to fear, pitting neighbor against neighbor and blaming others for their own failures to provide for their people."


Are those the words of President Bush? Who'd of thunk it!
 
It is important that we do not allow Venezuela to slip into a communist dictatorship. If one state falls down that path, the entire region may be lost.

Everybody on earth deserves to live free. There are those, like Chavez, that hate freedom, and it is our moral responsibility to make sure he doesn't succeed.
 
Originally posted by: robertcloud
It is important that we do not allow Venezuela to slip into a communist dictatorship. If one state falls down that path, the entire region may be lost.

Somebody yesterday said robertcloud was stuck in the 80s because of his use of the term "queer." Perhaps we need to go back further to days when people bought the "domino effect."
 
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: robertcloud
It is important that we do not allow Venezuela to slip into a communist dictatorship. If one state falls down that path, the entire region may be lost.

Somebody yesterday said robertcloud was stuck in the 80s because of his use of the term "queer." Perhaps we need to go back further to days when people bought the "domino effect."

They have our precious oil :|
 
Oil is the obvious answer :roll:

Notice how your list doesn't include Iraq, and do a little search on Chavez, and his history with the US.
The longing for regime change is nothing new, especially when Chavez openly criticizes Bush and the US.

Now, that being said; I don't agree with these assasination attempts and politicing between the two parties.
Chavez was elected by the people, he's a good leader, maybe a little too social for americans, but it's what Venezuelans want.
For that reason, I cannot support a US stimulated regime change.
 
The OAS has previously intervened in situations of political turmoil. In 2000, it sent an envoy to Peru following fraudulent elections. More recently, OAS countries formed a "Friends of Venezuela" group to mediate between the government and the opposition.

Oh Noes! We may send a delegation into Venezuela!

I love how an organization formed in 1948 and has several nations included and past interventions have been nothing more than diplomatic missions is now a tool of the Bush administration to invade venezuela.

Impressive leap imo.
 
Oil is not the answer. Seriously, could you people stand back for a second, look up from the script and actually look at what is going on over there.

South America is walking into a nightmare scenerio. Is a little preventive maintanence really a bad thing? Or would you prefer to se Ven. fall into deep Communism, then the rest of the region, and then lose influence whatsoever, and then who know what. It is not in the best interst of the people of South America to have to face Communism and the probable wars and coups that it will bring.

At one time the left actually represented freedom and choice. These days the left represents whatever is the opposite of Bush's stance. In this case you are representing the potential deaths of millions of people in South America. And you are all too stupid to see this.

Time to hang up the petty problems. Some thing are much more important than childish political squabbles...
 
evil chavez, using oil profits to feed the poor, and evicting those saintly monopolistic oil corporations

Venezuala is looking a lot more free then this place, at least they have a clue as to how to help instead of harm.

If you think chavez is setting up a communist dictatorship you are as batsh1t as the pundits you get thhis crap from. What part of democratic socialist government do you not get you cold war drama queens?
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot

evil chavez, using oil profits to feed the poor, and evicting those saintly monopolistic oil corporations

Venezuala is looking a lot more free then this place, at least they have a clue as to how to help instead of harm.

This is earth, have we met?
 
Welcome to earth, here's a clue bill o rielly is not god...and actually doesen't know sh1t about real life.

think for yourself...

Venuzala is the best hope for a new real democracy this side of the atlantic.

This place is going down the sh1tter as far as freedoms go.
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Welcome to earth, here's a clue bill o rielly is not god...and actually doesen't know sh1t about real life.

think for yourself...

Venuzala is the best hope for a new real democracy this side of the atlantic.

This place is going down the sh1tter as far as freedoms go.

Oh you mean thinking for myself as in saying things like this?

Venezuala is looking a lot more free then this place, at least they have a clue as to how to help instead of harm.


If this is the level of thought required for this conversation let me go to bed first and conduct this in a comotose.
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
do yourself a favor and don't comatose your brain any further for me...thanks...

Why? It would set me into a more proper state to converse with you.

 
Its not oil its Chavez. He's a destablizing force, provides santuary and arms to revolutions across the region, especially Columbia. Plus he is a large part of why Castro is still in power (free oil).
 
Originally posted by: filterxg
Its not oil its Chavez. He's a destablizing force, provides santuary and arms to revolutions across the region, especially Columbia.

Shall we have a mission to promote democracy in the US then? After all, the US has been a destabilizing force that has armed factions and undermined democratic elections.
 
destabalizing? by not shipping americas oil letting his people be raped by un-united states's big CEO's anymore lol..sure

or maybe destablizing means feeding the poor.....I see your angle, of course, the right considers the poor with a bit of power pretty destablizing to the good old boy club..we know that.
 
Originally posted by: Proletariat
Of course. They have been doing this for years.

Too bad they already killed Che.


Us Cuban's believe otherwise Castro used Che and made a figure out of him larger then life for his revolution.Castro had Cienfuegos killed off after the revolution because he didn't stand for communism only land reforms and refused to take Huber Matos to jail.Eventually Huber Matos got 25 years and Cienfuegos was killed in a mysterious plane disappearance if you believe Castro.Che was given the the title of president of National Bank and really screwed that up eventually placed as ministry of industry and screwed that up by closing all busniess schools.Before Che left Cuba he wrote Castro a letter to read if he died and once Che was in Africa the letter was played for all Cuban's to hear by Castro.Che could never come back to Cuba he was already put out as a dead man eventually he went to Bolivia and got no help from the commies their.

He was sent to death and he died he was not some great fighter everyone knows the Cuban revolution was easily won when Batista let Castro off the hook and eventually left the island.His troops gave up and they were all executed for the next weeks.Of course some stayed around and placed bombs throughtout Cuba in attempt to intimidate Castro's forces.

The greatest Cuban soldier and real war hero was Arnaldo Ochoa part of the july 26 movement key component of the win in Santa Clara.Fought in the Bay of Pigs spent time in a famous war college Frunze Academy in Russia,hero of the Angola war,leader of Cuban expeditionary forces in Ethiopia.Killed by Castro because Castro knew he was going to take him over soon he didn't believe in Communism and he ran the largest and strongest part of the Cuban army located where Castro lived.Of course this is modern Cuba I say Maximo Gomez would be the greatest figure and the Mambi army who with the US whooped Spain.

Want more info about Che's death read "memorias de un soldado cubano" the only guy to escape from Bolivia wrote it.He even says they were sent to die by Castro there was never any help awaiting them and he writes how Che was mad Castro read his letter to the public.
 
Originally posted by: filterxg
Its not oil its Chavez. He's a destablizing force, provides santuary and arms to revolutions across the region, especially Columbia. Plus he is a large part of why Castro is still in power (free oil).

I agree, Chavez is just as great, if not greater, a threat as Saddam was. Plus wasn't there an article a few months ago about how he bought thousands of weapons and WMDs from the Russians? Chavez must be disarmed, either by economic sanctions, or by military force.
 
Originally posted by: robertcloud
I agree, Chavez is just as great, if not greater, a threat as Saddam was. Chavez must be disarmed, either by economic sanctions, or by military force.

Sig material alert! Woop!
 
It seems to me that Hugo Chavez has done quite abit to help his people....he won't kowtow to bushie and his corporate interests....

I think a big issue in south america, that nobody seems to want talk about in the states is "water privatization"

taken from here

"Water wars in Bolivia: Corporations vs. citizens
In the semi-desert region of Cochabamba, Bolivia, water is scarce and precious. In 1999, the World Bank recommended privatization of Cochabamba's municipal water supply company, SEMAPA, through a concession to a private consortium, Aguas del Tunari, which involved International Water, a subsidiary of Bechtel. A law was passed called the Drinking Water and Sanitation Law in October 1999 that withdrew subsidies from basic services and allowed privatization.
The private water company doubled water rates. In a city where minimum wage is less than $100 a month, water costs increased to $20 a month, nearly the cost of feeding a family of five for half a month. The water price-hike, which was the source of Bechtel's profits, was thus based on depriving already poor children of food, clothing, education, and health care.
In January 2000, a citizen alliance, "La Coordinara," was formed. The alliance shut down the city for four days. The government promised to reverse the price hike, but never did. La Coordinara organized a peaceful march in February, in a "symbolic taking of the city of Cochabamba" to demand the following: repeal of the Drinking Water and Sanitation Law, annulment of ordinances that allowed the privatization, annulment of the contract, participation of citizens in drafting a Water Resource Law. The protests were repressed violently.
The citizens' protests were directly against the logic of privatization of water. La Coordinara's fundamental critique of the concession was based on the negation of the community's property rights to water resources, traditional rights ("usos y costumbres"), and the rights and obligations of water corporations, committees, and associations.
The Cochabamba citizens' movement slogans were "Water is God's gift and not merchandise" and "Water is life." By reclaiming water from corporations and the market, the citizens of Bolivia have shown that privatization is not inevitable and that people and their democratic will can prevent corporate takeover of our vital water resources."




This is why alot of people don't like orgs like world bank...because they basically are screwing people
 
wow, you people have your head so far up the administrations and foxnews's ass their sh1t has totally blinded you. and whats new?
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
wow, you people have your head so far up the administrations and foxnews's ass their sh1t has totally blinded you. and whats new?

I am not comotose yet, please wait a little longer before replying in the future.
Statements like the above require the least amount of brain activity to deal with.
 
Originally posted by: robertcloud
Originally posted by: filterxg
Its not oil its Chavez. He's a destablizing force, provides santuary and arms to revolutions across the region, especially Columbia. Plus he is a large part of why Castro is still in power (free oil).

I agree, Chavez is just as great, if not greater, a threat as Saddam was. Plus wasn't there an article a few months ago about how he bought thousands of weapons and WMDs from the Russians? Chavez must be disarmed, either by economic sanctions, or by military force.


What is he doing to us?
and he bought WMD from russia?
President Hugo Chavez waiting for USA to announce that Venezuela has WMD
 
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