US severely falling behind in internet technology 2

[Rectalfier]

Originally posted by: vash
Athlon30 is definitely telling the truth that the far east has more and gets more than we do in the states, but if it was SO good out there, why are so many people immigrating to the states?

Certainly if choices were that good in computing hardware and broadband, you'd stay, right?

Also, I prefer the amount of civil liberties I have, in the USA, over some of choices you may have in your country.

vash

Life is good anywhere if you have money. Most people that immigrate to the US do not have money, and are looking for the American dream. America provides the oppurtunity for a poor man to become rich, or at least make a decent wage doing a crappy job. In third world countires, there is usually a class system which makes it very hard for less fortunate people to move up or live a satisfactory lifestyle. America is the land of oppurtunity and the largest economy, not neccesarily the best place to live. In fact, the US is behind many countries in having the best standard of living. Norway currently holds the number one spot. Japan was top for some years. My homeland Canada was as well, but has been slipping on the charts

 

[BD231]

Bush is giving 88 million dollars to the technology industry to spred broadband, I wouldn't be worried.

 

[piasabird]

It makes it a lot easier to stay ahead when the government runs the telephone system. Getting the telephone company to spend one dime in America is like asking for the Red sea to be parted.

I wonder what the average number of internet users per 1000 chinese and taiwan people are. It is one thing to have something available and another thing to be able to afford it.

 

[Athlon30]

anyone have stayed in hongkong and watch TV should have seen the 10M DSL commercial. it is the new standard. even 6M DSL is faster than anything in US has to offer. tell me what speed you get from AOL, mindspring, verizon, earthlink (all the biggest ISPs)

in terms of delayness, everyone should the geforce4 debut in TAIWAN, China, hongkong first before it got to the US.

a typical ATX case w/ PS cost $12-40 in China, those $100+ case in China is next to unheard of. a heatsink w/fan is US $0.5 - $5. mouse is US 60 cents - $3.

There is a place call Pacific computer city in Guangzhow, China. they have over 3,000 venders under a few roofs next to each other (a cluster of over 10 computer malls). 100+ case venders, 50+ CPU and memory venders, hundreds of system venders, hundreds of audio speakers venders. 100+ fan and heatsink venders. Every major brand is there like Asus, Abit, MSI, Gigabyte and ECS. Everyday is like a comdex show over there. 10s of thousands shoppers from over China. It is the main distribution of PC parts in China. BTY, China is the number 2 computer buyer behind US, just surpass Japan last year. This is biggest computer center on this planet. Moreover, most of the PC parts this world buys are manufactured within 100 miles of Guangzhow. that's all mobos, cases, geforce cards, fans, heat sinks, power supply, mouse, keyboard, monitor, CD and DVD-ROM ( besides harddrive and CPU). If anyone is in the international trade should know that Guangdong is the Manufacturing center of the world. From toys, cloths, watches, sneakers, TV, VCR, speakers, leather goods, handbags and latest the X box, Guangdong dominates because of cheap labor cost (20 US cent / hour for factory workers).

a complete system of ........(vender pre-test and pre-overclock for you)
1.6G Pentium4 (selected overclock to 2.66G) pre-tested
Epox EP-4BEA....USB 2.0
60G IBM GX120
256MB Samsung DDR (selected) PC2100 run 166Mhz CL2 pre-tested
heatsink/fan + 4 case fan + HD dual fan
16X DVD
ATX case (nice looking) w/ 300w P4 Power supply
Geforce4 Ti4200 pre-mod run 310core/640 ram with ram sink
10/100 nic RT-8139
wheel mouse
5.1 6 speakers
3Dmark 2001SE 1024x768x32 score over 13,500
The nice thing is that they assemble everything for you, you don't need to find the selected CPU, ram, and the Geforce4.

Total US $640-670. how much does it cost in the US (if you want 3Dmark 13,500) or from Dell or Alienware?....US $2500-3000.....you can buy 4 - 5 systems.



sure, many people come to US from other places, mainly are caused by high wages.

Someone will say who needs 10M or 6M DSL, then again who needs a 3 gigahertz Pentium 4 and Geforce4 or needs overclocking

 

[MadRat]

Competition in America is needed. Look at my local cable vs. DSL competition. The cable company offers 512K service for $25/month with ISP. The telephone company offered 384K service for $50/month previously. They just upped the cap to 1.5M for that $50/month!!

 

[MadRat]

btw- I think its the ENTERTAINMENT industry that has kept our bandwidth down. Just think how fast movies will get ripped when the bandwidth for the average user jumps by 10X!

 

[Athlon30]

i-CABLE provides a comprehensive range of Internet Services to business clients including Internet Access and a number of value-added Internet Services. Our professional team understands business communications needs and delivers the most cost-effective Internet services and solutions to our business clients.



Dual Band Data Transmission Cable Access Service
140 Mbps international bandwidth
1 Gbps local bandwidth to HKIX
Hybrid Fibre Coaxial Network
Offer data transmission speed up to 28 Mbps
Cable Modem
Up to 769k - 10 Mb data upstream
Up to 8 Mb - 28 Mb data downstream


the link--- http://www.i-cable.com/ourservices/business/e-home.html

for busines is 28Mbps
for consumer is 10Mbps

 

[orcorcorc5]

CIA World Factbook - Hong Kong
CIA World Factbook - China
CIA World Factbook - USA


Hong Kong
ISPs: 17
Internet Users: 1.85 million
Ratio: 108,000 users per ISP.

China
ISPs: 3
Internet Users: 22 million
Ratio: 7.33 million users per ISP.

USA
ISPs: 7800
Internet Users: 148 million
Ratio: 19,000 users per ISP.

The last thing anyone should be complaining about in the United States is "choice." Also keep in mind that Hong Kong has a much higher population density which is very important when a company is determining if DSL will be profitable.

10M DSL might be nice, but who can upload that fast? I have a cable connection and the limiting factor is almost always the other side, the server uploading.

 

[Athlon30]

I will tell you here and now that this is incorrect.

The prevailing speeds are 1.5Mb, 3Mb and 6Mb for regular consumers. No one offers 10Mb DSL here.
---icable offer 10M for consumers, 28Mb for business. even at 1.5 mb, 3Mb are faster than anything in the US. most US boardband ISPs offer 512k,768k, 1.5Mb the max.

Most people are on the 1.5Mb and 3Mb lines.

Have you considered the fact that population here in Hong Kong is so dense that not only is it practical for a large scale rollout but also more economical?
--- population in New York city is denser than Hongkong, inside the city -- NYC 3 million sq miles vs HK 4 million+ sq million miles, Population NYC 8 million+ vs HK 7 million. Manhattan island is smaller than Hongkong island and have more population than Hongkong island.

 

[HalfCrazy]

I'm on 56k dial-up since cable/dsl is not available in my small town yet. Right now the fastest connect I can get it ISDN without going to sat. connection. The local cable company did say they 'are' going to get cable in the area. But can't tell me when that is going to be. I just wish I had cable right now so I can get a better ping while playing games online.

 

[Gunbuster]

most non telco DSL went down the tube, XO is circling the bowl as we speek, who will provide (and pay for) this super duper high speed

 

[AndyHui]

Excuse me, I live here in Hong Kong, therefore I KNOW

---icable offer 10M for consumers, 28Mb for business.

.

The 10Mb claim is a bit of cheeky advertising.

You don't GET 10Mb. It's 10Mb shared between up to 10 connections. Unless you live in a building where you are the ONLY person on iCable, you will NOT get 10Mb.

HK 4 million+ sq million miles

And you have any idea of how much of that land is actually inhabitable?

 

[Pariah]

Quote

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HK 4 million+ sq million miles
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And you have any idea of how much of that land is actually inhabitable?

I'm not really sure what athlon was trying to describe above, population density or area. You may live in Hong Kong, but your geography skills need a bit of help if you think HK is 4million square miles. It's 400sq miles, the US including Alaska is 3.5million sq miles. NYC is about 300 sq miles so Athlon got the 3 and 4 right, but added 4 extra 0's to each. The population density of NYC is 26,500 per square mile (2000) while HK is just over 6,000 (1998).

 

[Athlon30]

And you have any idea of how much of that land is actually inhabitable?
---I know 83% of Hongkong is hilly. They are not uninhabitable, they are undeveloped. Look at hong kong island mid-level. 64 stories building are build on old peak road in mid hill. Over 80% of the new territory are undeveloped if you look at the map or look from a mountain peak. I live in Hong kong too. I know the dense area in kowloon have 500,000 population in 1 sq Km. there are a minimum of 50 sq km in the new territory that's undeveloped. Like I said before, they could have deployed 10M-20M boardband in Manhattan, but they don't. Only 1.5Mb at the max.
do you know the population of Guangzhow, over 20 million if you include the unregistered ones.
let me explain to you, if a plot of land can build a 10 story building, it can also build a 20 story building, it can build a 30 story building, or 100 story building.
If a 10 story building gives you 300,000 sq feet, it can house 2,000 people
a 100 story building 3,000,000 sq feet, it can house 20,000 people. (100 story is only 30 more stories than Chungkong center)
If just 5% of all the residential buildings are 100+ stories, you can house alot alot more people. ( i know the Gov't won't allowed it)
5% of all the residential buildings means over 2,500 buildings. then you need more subway, and roads. 2,500 100+ story buiding can house 50 million people if each person occupy 150 sq feet and if each building is 3,000,000 sq feet. this is just a theory to prove you are wrong.

 

[AndyHui]

I live in Hong kong too

Then why are you worried about what sort of Internet connection the US has?

Why don't you give me a call here in Hong Kong then?

You have not addressed the issue I raised where iCable does not offer a real 10Mb connection.

 

[Jeff7]

I'd love more than one choice for broadband - the cable service to my house is sluggish, sometimes slower than 56k. And of course, with no competition, the cable provider does what it can to avoid providing service.:|

 

[WyteWatt]

Jeff77 exactly

 

[Athlon30]

Then why are you worried about what sort of Internet connection the US has?
-- I am in New York now, connection speed is very slow here like 768k - 1.5M, anything faster is not available. I feel screwed.
-- even 6M DSL is 4x faster than everything here. that's like I can buy a 2000Mhz CPU in Hongkong, but I am stucked with 500 MHz CPU in New York.

You have not addressed the issue I raised where iCable does not offer a real 10Mb connection.
-- there are cable connections in US, but they are still nowhere close to the speed of Hongkong.

and the selection of choices is extremely limited. . The absolute worst thing is NO pre-selected CPU, ram, Geforce4 overclocked parts.

 

[AndyHui]

I am in New York now, connection speed is very slow here like 768k - 1.5M, anything faster is not available. I feel screwed.

You should travel more. Appreciate some of the better things in life then. Complaining in the way that you have done is not going to get you anywhere.

I started off with a 300bps modem many many years ago. People these days are spoilt with technology and don't know how to appreciate.

You CAN get pre-tested parts. Several traders here on the AnandTech forums used to offer pre-tested parts, and many still do.

Seriously, quit whining. You should be thankful that you don't have a 56K modem. Turn on your PMs as well please.

 

[Goosemaster]

I feel so Bad for the IT departments of amazon.com and microsoft and such...


Imagine the size of the server farms at these places once everyone is getting 50Mbits/sec.


not to mention oc768 lines are being deployed

 

[Soccerman]

lmao, I was just reading the latest Scientific American..

you'd all be interested in this

Athlon30 do you know WHY there is a limit? cable companies first of all don't have the infrastructure to REACH those speeds. not only are our distances longer in North America, but our cable companies are cheap@sses and that won't change all that quickly. As for DSL, it's quite obvious why we don't get speeds that it is capable of, and that is simply becuase if you aren't already capped at a certain speed, then you're too far out to reach that speed (but still close enough to get DSL service). because of the way DSL works, you aren't ever going to get really high speed internet (10 Mbps or more) unless they use fiber to your neighborhood which then splits off to your house. it can be used for the last mile at really high speeds, however often they don't have fiber running quite that close. which is why you don't see this happening, and why that article I pointed to is there.

 

[chansen]

Athlon30,

Why have you reincarnated this useless thread? The locked one was just as bad, but this one seems to have evaded the lock.

Pity.

And as for this:

this is just a theory to prove you are wrong.

Never use this sentence again.

 

[JWMiddleton]

Originally posted by: Athlon30
in terms of delayness, everyone should the geforce4 debut in TAIWAN, China, hongkong first before it got to the US.

Comments like this make me wonder if you know where most of our computer parts are designed and manufactured. It isn?t in Minnesota! :Q

 

[Athlon30]

I'm not really sure what athlon was trying to describe above, population density or area. You may live in Hong Kong, but your geography skills need a bit of help if you think HK is 4million square miles. It's 400sq miles, the US including Alaska is 3.5million sq miles. NYC is about 300 sq miles so Athlon got the 3 and 4 right, but added 4 extra 0's to each. The population density of NYC is 26,500 per square mile (2000) while HK is just over 6,000 (1998).

the 400 million miles is typo. i mean 400+ sq miles.
the whole point of the statement is to rebuff Andy's statement of population density. it just to show him that some city in US is very dense like Hongkong.

 

[rjcoolpix880]

If you really care that much about having all of the latest and greatist. Then obviously price is not an issue. Because new products are generally much more expensive than a notch or two below the top. So call up some guy in Hongkong and have him ship it here or better yet fly down there and bring it back yourself.