US News - Best High Schools

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY


Your retail store analogy is silly and doesn't even come close to comparing but even if it did, the top performing store is still the "best" performing store - no? Sheesh

Obviously certain classes will help students differently but it still doesn't mean that lower results can be considered "best". Certain schools may be better for your kids to learn in but it doesn't make them the "best" school.

You can put a kid on the short bus, but you can't make him learn. Sorry, apparently it is beyond my abilities to explain this to you adequately.

No, I understand what you are trying to do and say - I just don't agree with your embrace of relativism.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

:roll: so please do tell me what business adjusts their "best" due to race...or for that matter starting point?

I swear you people are being purposely obtuse... likely to protect the same happy hippie hooey that keeps things like AA around and protect a way of thinking that has absolutely ruined our public school system...

I never said any business adjusts based upon race, I said that they acknowledge the differences in input when examining the output... as does everyone with common sense.

You're hung up on the race thing for some reason. There can be plenty of good reasons to use a factor like race in a study, maybe it tracks well with other variables you're looking at but is much easier to get data on, etc... etc. The thing is, I'm not taking issue with your dislike of this study, I don't care about this study. You are saying we should measure schools based solely on their output, ignoring the students that go into them. I'm telling you THAT proposition defies common sense.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

:roll: so please do tell me what business adjusts their "best" due to race...or for that matter starting point?

I swear you people are being purposely obtuse... likely to protect the same happy hippie hooey that keeps things like AA around and protect a way of thinking that has absolutely ruined our public school system...

I never said any business adjusts based upon race, I said that they acknowledge the differences in input when examining the output... as does everyone with common sense.

You're hung up on the race thing for some reason. There can be plenty of good reasons to use a factor like race in a study, maybe it tracks well with other variables you're looking at but is much easier to get data on, etc... etc. The thing is, I'm not taking issue with your dislike of this study, I don't care about this study. You are saying we should measure schools based solely on their output, ignoring the students that go into them. I'm telling you THAT proposition defies common sense.

And I'm telling you that your type of relativism is part of what the problem with our public school system today. Results matter- not race.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

:roll: so please do tell me what business adjusts their "best" due to race...or for that matter starting point?

I swear you people are being purposely obtuse... likely to protect the same happy hippie hooey that keeps things like AA around and protect a way of thinking that has absolutely ruined our public school system...

I never said any business adjusts based upon race, I said that they acknowledge the differences in input when examining the output... as does everyone with common sense.

You're hung up on the race thing for some reason. There can be plenty of good reasons to use a factor like race in a study, maybe it tracks well with other variables you're looking at but is much easier to get data on, etc... etc. The thing is, I'm not taking issue with your dislike of this study, I don't care about this study. You are saying we should measure schools based solely on their output, ignoring the students that go into them. I'm telling you THAT proposition defies common sense.

And I'm telling you that your type of relativism is part of what the problem with our public school system today. Results matter- not race.

Mugs, you truly can lead someone to the short bus, but you can't make them learn. Sorry CAD, apparently it is beyond my abilities to explain this to you adequately.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

No, I want want schools that produce the best RESULTS to be considered the "best" - not schools who are considered "best" based on some subjective and IMO racist measuring stick.

So you'd send your kid to a school that "wins" due to relativity and not end results?

I've tried to explain it to you 4 or 5 times now. I give up. You're confusing the performance of the students with the performance of the school.

No, I am not confusing anything. The product of schools are the students. The END RESULTS are what matters when it comes to schools as that is what they are in place to provide - END RESULTS.

As a public school teacher I disagree. You can round up 100 gifted kids and call the school awesome but all it really means is there are a bunch of smart kids at the school. End results does not inherently mean great school. That's an extreme example, but the point stands.

I work in a very poor 99% Hispanic school district. Although our test scores may not be as high as some other schools they don't have to deal with students whose Dad is in jail, Mom in is Mexico, and Junior can barely read and write English. What I would call "traditional middle class values" are almost nonexistent.

These are not excuses or low expectations. These are the realities we deal with en mass everyday. Stick a kid brought up in good circumstances and any teacher will suffice. When I can get my 8th graders from a 4th grade reading level to a 7th grade level (and help keep them out of juvi) I would call that a success, regardless of how they compare to others students.

If I went to the rich neighborhood and taught I could do it with my eyes closed. Put one of those teachers in my school and chances are they would run out screaming before lunch. Who is the better teacher? What is the better school?

End results tell me more about the students and less about the school.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

No, I want want schools that produce the best RESULTS to be considered the "best" - not schools who are considered "best" based on some subjective and IMO racist measuring stick.

So you'd send your kid to a school that "wins" due to relativity and not end results?

I've tried to explain it to you 4 or 5 times now. I give up. You're confusing the performance of the students with the performance of the school.

No, I am not confusing anything. The product of schools are the students. The END RESULTS are what matters when it comes to schools as that is what they are in place to provide - END RESULTS.

As a public school teacher I disagree. You can round up 100 gifted kids and call the school awesome but all it really means is there are a bunch of smart kids at the school. End results does not inherently mean great school. That's an extreme example, but the point stands.

I work in a very poor 99% Hispanic school district. Although our test scores may not be as high as some other schools they don't have to deal with students whose Dad is in jail, Mom in is Mexico, and Junior can barely read and write English. What I would call "traditional middle class values" are almost nonexistent.

These are not excuses or low expectations. These are the realities we deal with en mass everyday. Stick a kid brought up in good circumstances and any teacher will suffice. When I can get my 8th graders from a 4th grade reading level to a 7th grade level (and help keep them out of juvi) I would call that a success, regardless of how they compare to others students.

If I went to the rich neighborhood and taught I could do it with my eyes closed. Put one of those teachers in my school and chances are they would run out screaming before lunch. Who is the better teacher? What is the better school?

End results tell me more about the students and less about the school.

I'm not arguing sucess. There are many great schools that help disadvantaged(supposedly) students excel. I fully support their efforts but my position has to do with this "study" that takes lesser end results and labels them "best" solely because of these often racist assumptions. This "study" has in it's methodolgy - race. It's totally irrelevant as I've stated. Yes, I get economic assumptions, but this is about the top schools - not some study about poor neighborhood schools vs "rich" ones.

Edit - I did some digging around and it looks like this "study" isn't about the "best" it's about measuring performance with heavy "disadvantaged" weightings. I looked at schools in areas that I know and some of them got bronze ratings but didn't score on the college readiness rating but did score on "Poverty-Adjusted Performance Index" and "Disadvantaged Students Performance Gap"
So my position changes exactly zero - it's not about "best" - it's about relativism.

 

[techs]

My school is on the list at number 23. Stuyvesant High School.

 

[Special K]

I wonder how seriously families take these rankings. I wonder if there are families who are willing to pack up everything and relocate to be in a state that scores high on these rankings. Most high school seniors probably still consult the US News rankings when choosing a college, but moving away for college isn't nearly as big of an undertaking as moving an entire family.

 

[cwjerome]

I went to a mediocre high school in a mediocre part of town. I ditched half the time and cheated my way through in math (had a great time though).

So now what?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: babylon5
If there is a Worst High School list, CA is probably near the top too. I agree, more bad high schools in CA than good ones.

CA has insanely good schools. If you come from certain areas, you will know of them. We know the top Universities in CA get fed with the top HS. BTW #73 Monta Vista represent. Throw out all those magnet charter schools and let's see how the other public schools perform. I'd guess my HS would move up a lot more. Then again we were what #50 something in Newsweek before?

 

[imported_K3N]

Homeschool FTW

 

[thegimp03]

These places never rank private schools. I'd be interested to see how many of those schools make it into these rankings and how they place.

 

[Pacemaker]

How about instead of guessing based on racial stereotypes, you test them before they've had a class and then after. You measure the difference and base how good a school is on that.

 

[palehorse]

Your High School is a joke Laruso!!!

In case anyone missed it in my first post, my pride is forcing me to post it again.

My former HS is #1 baby... numeral uno... the shiznit... the cream of the crop... the best of the best... so suck it!

How many people here, besides me, took AP Calculus, Electrical Engineerring, Microbiology, Computer Science, and Introduction to Supercomputing -- using an actual on-site supercomputer (ETA10)!! -- as a 9th grader?!? Just curious...

GO COLONIALS!!

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: BrownTown
In terms of the top100 its pretty silly really, it is only looking at the number of AP tests kids take, which means absolutely jack shit for how smart they are. You can have a monkey sit down and take 10 AP tests and get to the top of those lists. Also, they only have public schools which is only really telling half the story since alot of places no elf respecting person would send their kids to public school. At least where I live in Tennessee you just don't see kids coming out of the public schools and being successful. Its kind of sad really when they post the Valedictorians each year for the public schools and they are all going to the big public colleges or community college meanwhile, a third of the kids at he the private schools are getting into top 25 colleges and essentially the bottom 30% are going to the same places as the top tier public schools kids.

you realize that alot of the top 25 colleges are 'big public colleges' right?

Uh actually no, last I checked the highest rated public school was 18th, and there were maybe 2 or 3 in the top 25.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: palehorse
Your High School is a joke Laruso!!!

In case anyone missed it in my first post, my pride is forcing me to post it again.

My former HS is #1 baby... numeral uno... the shiznit... the cream of the crop... the best of the best... so suck it!

How many people here, besides me, took AP Calculus, Electrical Engineerring, Microbiology, Computer Science, and Introduction to Supercomputing -- using an actual on-site supercomputer (ETA10)!! -- as a 9th grader?!? Just curious...

GO COLONIALS!!

why does a high school have "intro to super computing" or "electrical engineering" as a class? Those are WAY to specific of disciplines for a high school to be teaching. Why is a 9th grader being expected to choose a career path?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: palehorse
Your High School is a joke Laruso!!!

In case anyone missed it in my first post, my pride is forcing me to post it again.

My former HS is #1 baby... numeral uno... the shiznit... the cream of the crop... the best of the best... so suck it!

How many people here, besides me, took AP Calculus, Electrical Engineerring, Microbiology, Computer Science, and Introduction to Supercomputing -- using an actual on-site supercomputer (ETA10)!! -- as a 9th grader?!? Just curious...

GO COLONIALS!!

why does a high school have "intro to super computing" or "electrical engineering" as a class? Those are WAY to specific of disciplines for a high school to be teaching. Why is a 9th grader being expected to choose a career path?

The course selection is not so much about "choosing a career path," as it is about challenging gifted students from day one, and exposing them to the cutting edge of every aspect of science, mathematics, and technology. That said, the school is certainly not for everyone; but, neither is an average public school. Some students need and deserve much more, and that's exactly what they get at an exceptional public school like TJ.

We really are talking about the best of the best here -- the best professors, best students, best facilities, best course selection, etc -- all available as a public High School to anyone in the Northern VA area with the courage and intellect to try.

TJ is the M.I.T. of High Schools.

We also had to complete a graduate-level thesis to receive our HS diplomas. Do you object to that as well?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: cwjerome


These are not excuses or low expectations. These are the realities we deal with en mass everyday. Stick a kid brought up in good circumstances and any teacher will suffice. When I can get my 8th graders from a 4th grade reading level to a 7th grade level (and help keep them out of juvi) I would call that a success, regardless of how they compare to others students.

I call what you do an outstanding success, your school district sounds like an abyssal failure. If you are getting significant number of 8ths grades that are 4 grades behind, you school is doing more to warehouse kids, than to teach them. You are proof that, if you can move kiids 3 grades in a year.

Every non performing teacher and administrator should be fired for that kind of performance.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: K3N
Homeschool FTW

Oh god...this is the singular thing I hate about homeschooling - nutbars like you do it too Still, in my experience now with two Co-ops, the nutbars are in the very, very small minority, so the net result is we have a movement in the US that far eclipses what all public and all but the most elite private schools can provide.