The Batt?sai
Diamond Member
this one we'lll lose too thats happening currently
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US military history
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this one we'lll lose too thats happening currently
sandmanwake
Golden Member
I thought the British started it by kidnapping Americans and forcing them to join the British army to fight the French.
good thing we took care of the japanese, pretty much all by ourselves.
additionally, had it not been for all the US aid to the soviets, there is a much greater chance that the tide wouldn't have turned in 1943. they might have gotten more aid had they been more open about what was happening on their front.
scottish144
Banned
Uh, we didn't lose Korea. IIRC McArthur practically went to the Chinese border before the Administration pulled him out.
PrinceofWands
Lifer
There's more ways to fight a war than lining up with a bunch of buddies to withstand a charge. No, no single nation could possibly wage a successful conventional war against the total US war machine. That doesn't mean there aren't ways to beat us though.
PrinceofWands
Lifer
There's a fair amount of debate over how much impressment was actually taking place.
Azndude2190
Golden Member
No we haven't lost a war.😛
whistleclient
Platinum Member
I'm confusing nothing. I'm saying muddling with Middle Eastern affairs gets us into trouble. In the 70s we sold F-14s to the Iranians. In the 80s we supported Saddam. Now we're struggling with both. During the Soviet Afghanistan war we supported the Mujahadeen, including Osama. Now we're hunting him. It's becoming more and more like the Eurasia/Eastasia flip flop from Orwell's 1984...
Azndude2190
Golden Member
Was Somolia a war?
Vic
Elite Member
Conspiracy is a poor word to use when labelling a historical fact. Hell, it's been proven that the media has started wars just to sell newspapers (i.e. Hearst and USS Maine).
Regardless, I wasn't pushing the "arms makers" bit so much as immense economic impact of the defense industry itself. For example, during the defense industry downturn in So. Cal. in the early 90's, home prices in the region fell by roughly 25% in 3 years despite falling interest rates.
I really don't see how there can be any question to the obvious fact that the US (since WWII) fights war as a make-work program, with millions employed and nearly a trillion in gross revenues annually (including the military itself, contractors, suppliers, etc.).
K1052
Elite Member
Impressment, the Orders in Council, the Chesapeake-Leopard incident (a clear act of war as far as I'm concerned), and some other stuff.
The US had just cause in my opinion to go to war with England but went about it in the wrong way when Congress insisted on trying to grab Canada with a horribly disorganized and ill led army. The war was about the sea and should have been prosecuted on it alone with our navy and privateers.
The Revolutionary War was a win.
The War of 1812 was a loss.
The Civil War was a win (in the sense that the Union stayed together)
The Spanish-American War was a win (we tossed 'em out of Cuba, and took Puerto Rico)
The Mexican-American War was a win (and decisively so)
World War I was a win.
World War II was a win.
The Korean War was a win (stated objectives were defending the South, not taking over the North).
The Vietnam War was a loss (stated objectives were preventing the North Vietnamese from taking over the South).
Lots of little "interventions" in Latin/South America could be counted for a win.
The Gulf War was a win (eject Iraq from Kuwait)
The Kosovo War was a win.
As for unresolved conflicts, Afghanistan isn't quite calm, but the Taliban is pretty well smashed at this point - I've not heard any news of any major Taliban operations in a while. Iraq is not going well, and I suspect it will be viewed as a historical loss in the same fashion as Vietnam - we won, but we didn't.
There were several peacekeeping missions that didn't end pleasantly (Lebanon and Somalia come to mind), but whether these count as American wars is questionable in my eyes, since they weren't full-blown military conflicts. Maybe history will divide Afghanistan and Iraq into "the war" and "the peacekeeping". Who knows?
-Erwos
The War of 1812 was a loss.
The Civil War was a win (in the sense that the Union stayed together)
The Spanish-American War was a win (we tossed 'em out of Cuba, and took Puerto Rico)
The Mexican-American War was a win (and decisively so)
World War I was a win.
World War II was a win.
The Korean War was a win (stated objectives were defending the South, not taking over the North).
The Vietnam War was a loss (stated objectives were preventing the North Vietnamese from taking over the South).
Lots of little "interventions" in Latin/South America could be counted for a win.
The Gulf War was a win (eject Iraq from Kuwait)
The Kosovo War was a win.
As for unresolved conflicts, Afghanistan isn't quite calm, but the Taliban is pretty well smashed at this point - I've not heard any news of any major Taliban operations in a while. Iraq is not going well, and I suspect it will be viewed as a historical loss in the same fashion as Vietnam - we won, but we didn't.
There were several peacekeeping missions that didn't end pleasantly (Lebanon and Somalia come to mind), but whether these count as American wars is questionable in my eyes, since they weren't full-blown military conflicts. Maybe history will divide Afghanistan and Iraq into "the war" and "the peacekeeping". Who knows?
-Erwos
m1ldslide1
Platinum Member
Amplifier thanks for posting - unfortunately you represent the majority of your countrymen quite well. You are unable to see the nuance of what Prince or any rational thinker is saying right now. You think that because people are saying that the war is wrong and that it will never come to any good, we are somehow not "supporting our troops". It's like you see no difference between the government and the military. The military is an arm of the government. I understand that when you go to Basic training they tell you the whole thing about god, country, corps or whatever and soldiers see it as the holy trinity, but it doesn't reflect reality.
In other words, our executive branch = corrupt and criminal. Our military = a whole bunch of fine men and women that I wish were home instead of dieing for oil. There is a big difference. Don't let your paranoia and insecurity cloud your judgement.
Nobody is disputing the ability of our military. Or, rather, the former ability of our military. Being spread so thin, we're weakening by the hour and China is catching up quick... Should be an interesting century.
ed21x
Diamond Member
let's try not to be so general here. Those f-14s were sold to Iran because we supported the Shah, until they were ousted. As for the Mujahedeen thing, this should be considered a different conflict from the recent Osama Bin Laden campaign, as we supported the Mujahedeen at a time to contain russian expansion in that area, and were successful at it. Thus, that conflict should be considered a victory, as our objective was reached.
Given time, we supported Israel, and that pissed off a bunch of people in the middle east, as all the Islamic nations hated the Jews, and of course hated us. As a result of directly supporting Israel, Afghanistan eventually became an enemy that manifested itself in 9-11. In response, we attacked and ousted the taliban from power. Another objective reached, and another victory to add to the chart.
What people need to understand is that many of the small middle eastern nations change very rapidly and thus we cannot always classify them as who we've delt with in the past- especially given the instability of whoever is ruling.
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