US manufacturing in decline

[charrison]

linkage

The decline of manufacturing in rich countries is a more complex story than the piles of Chinese-made goods in shops suggest. Manufacturing output continues to expand in most developed countries?in America, by almost 4% a year on average since 1991. Despite the rise in Chinese exports, America is still the world's biggest manufacturer, producing about twice as much, measured by value, as China.

...
All that is good. Faster productivity growth means higher average incomes. Low rates of unemployment in the countries which have shifted furthest away from manufacturing suggest that most laid-off workers have found new jobs. And consumers have benefited from cheap Chinese imports.

Yet there is a residual belief that making things you can drop on your toe is superior to working in accounting or hairdressing. Manufacturing jobs, it is often said, are better than the Mcjobs typical in the service sector. Yet working conditions in services are often pleasanter and safer than on an assembly line, and average wages in the fastest-growing sectors, such as finance, professional and business services, education and health, are higher than in manufacturing.

...

People always resist change, yet sustained growth relies on a continuous shift in resources to more efficient use. In 1820, for example, 70% of American workers were in agriculture; today 2% are. If all those workers had remained tilling the land, America would now be a lot poorer.

It appears the death of US manufactuing is greatly exagerated and that worker are adapting to the change by find better jobs.

 

[SagaLore]

Um... okay? 😕

 

[Genx87]

I have never believed our manufacturing sector was in danger. However I do believe the manufacturing worker is.

With automation the human aspect of the equation will keep getting pushed out to drive down costs and increase productivity.

Think about it. Would you rather own a factory that works 3 shifts, costing 3 times the wages, 3 times the admin costs, 3 times healthcare, 3 times the pensions? Or would you rather run a factory with automation where robots do most of the work and are doing it 24 hours a day with a skeleton crew?

This is where education and retraining needs to be focused to help manufacturing workers to move into other careers.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

The decline of manufacturing in rich countries is a more complex story than the piles of Chinese-made goods in shops suggest. Manufacturing output continues to expand in most developed countries?in America, by almost 4% a year on average since 1991. Despite the rise in Chinese exports, America is still the world's biggest manufacturer, producing about twice as much, measured by value, as China.

...
All that is good. Faster productivity growth means higher average incomes. Low rates of unemployment in the countries which have shifted furthest away from manufacturing suggest that most laid-off workers have found new jobs. And consumers have benefited from cheap Chinese imports.

Yet there is a residual belief that making things you can drop on your toe is superior to working in accounting or hairdressing. Manufacturing jobs, it is often said, are better than the Mcjobs typical in the service sector. Yet working conditions in services are often pleasanter and safer than on an assembly line, and average wages in the fastest-growing sectors, such as finance, professional and business services, education and health, are higher than in manufacturing.

...

People always resist change, yet sustained growth relies on a continuous shift in resources to more efficient use. In 1820, for example, 70% of American workers were in agriculture; today 2% are. If all those workers had remained tilling the land, America would now be a lot poorer.

It appears the death of US manufactuing is greatly exagerated and that worker are adapting to the change by find better jobs.

LOL... I'm sure all those empty factories in southeastern Michigan with for sale signs are some kind of prank. It appears that you haven't walked outside into the real world and you're talking straight out of your ass.

 

[conjur]

Geez...you're really pushing it now.

First, it's an Op/Ed article.

Second, it only says the average expansion rate since 1991 is 4%. What it doesn't state is how that expansion is distributed over the last 14 years. Was most of it in the early 90s? Mid 90s? Last 5 years? When was it?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: charrison
linkage

The decline of manufacturing in rich countries is a more complex story than the piles of Chinese-made goods in shops suggest. Manufacturing output continues to expand in most developed countries?in America, by almost 4% a year on average since 1991. Despite the rise in Chinese exports, America is still the world's biggest manufacturer, producing about twice as much, measured by value, as China.

...
All that is good. Faster productivity growth means higher average incomes. Low rates of unemployment in the countries which have shifted furthest away from manufacturing suggest that most laid-off workers have found new jobs. And consumers have benefited from cheap Chinese imports.

Yet there is a residual belief that making things you can drop on your toe is superior to working in accounting or hairdressing. Manufacturing jobs, it is often said, are better than the Mcjobs typical in the service sector. Yet working conditions in services are often pleasanter and safer than on an assembly line, and average wages in the fastest-growing sectors, such as finance, professional and business services, education and health, are higher than in manufacturing.

...

People always resist change, yet sustained growth relies on a continuous shift in resources to more efficient use. In 1820, for example, 70% of American workers were in agriculture; today 2% are. If all those workers had remained tilling the land, America would now be a lot poorer.

It appears the death of US manufactuing is greatly exagerated and that worker are adapting to the change by find better jobs.

LOL... I'm sure all those empty factories in southeastern Michigan with for sale signs are some kind of prank. It appears that you haven't walked outside into the real world and you're talking straight out of your ass.

Actually, regardless of factories shutting down or not, production is indeed up. Whether it's automation or some other arrangement (I wonder if factories shipped to Mexico that ship parts to warehouses in the US, have a little "value added" work done to them, and then shipped from the US are considered wholly US manufactured items?), the US is "producing (see above note)" more.

Automation actually saves jobs by elimination - i.e. many people still work in automated factories such as engineers, maintenance, managers, etc. However, if the plants weren't automated and all labor/plant sent to Mexico or China, ALL jobs would be lost. I see it every single day and it's a struggle to keep what we can here. It's working better and fuel/shipping prices are actually helping.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

The OP is basically an argument for how the "collective" good is being served by US policies. IMHO, it's an open debate. Granted, I live in a state (NC) with a lot of the "left behind."

Agriculture has largely been ceded to the undocumented immigrant community. Unskilled factory work has largely been ceded to the undocumented immigrant community or exported to cut out the middleman. The same is true for semi-skilled labor.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: conjur
Geez...you're really pushing it now.

First, it's an Op/Ed article.

Second, it only says the average expansion rate since 1991 is 4%. What it doesn't state is how that expansion is distributed over the last 14 years. Was most of it in the early 90s? Mid 90s? Last 5 years? When was it?

For the last several years manufacturing output has been growing quite well.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
The OP is basically an argument for how the "collective" good is being served by US policies. IMHO, it's an open debate. Granted, I live in a state (NC) with a lot of the "left behind."

Agriculture has largely been ceded to the undocumented immigrant community. Unskilled factory work has largely been ceded to the undocumented immigrant community or exported to cut out the middleman. The same is true for semi-skilled labor.

Interesting observation. Something I've been curious about for some time is how many of the over 4 million lost manufacturing jobs of the last 5 years actually been replaced by the "temporary service industry". I know of several large factories close by that now use temps for up to 4 years before even offering (if ever) a full time job. I've asked before and couldn't find an answer....are many of the manufacturing jobs that are being created simply listed as "service jobs" because they work through a temp. agency? dunno....

 

[dirtboy]

I for one don't care much about a decline in manufacturing. Most manufacturing jobs a low pay, low skilled work. Perfect for other countries that have a significantly lower wage and an uneducated workforce.

Why should we manufacture something when we can have someone else do it for us for a quarter of the price. Makes no sense.

The manufacturing jobs we retain are the high tech manufacturning jobs, which is good.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: charrison
Topic Title: US manufacturing in decline
Topic Summary: Not hardly.

That's because things like cooking hamburgers have been re-classified as "Manufacturing" by the Republicans.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: dirtboy


Why should we manufacture something when we can have someone else do it for us for a quarter of the price. Makes no sense.

Trade deficit?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison
Topic Title: US manufacturing in decline
Topic Summary: Not hardly.

That's because things like cooking hamburgers have been re-classified as "Manufacturing" by the Republicans.

NO they have not.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison
Topic Title: US manufacturing in decline
Topic Summary: Not hardly.

That's because things like cooking hamburgers have been re-classified as "Manufacturing" by the Republicans.

Captain Misrepresentation saves the day!!

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dirtboy


Why should we manufacture something when we can have someone else do it for us for a quarter of the price. Makes no sense.

Trade deficit?

Irrelevent.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dirtboy


Why should we manufacture something when we can have someone else do it for us for a quarter of the price. Makes no sense.

Trade deficit?

Irrelevent.

Yep, I guess 3/4 trillion leaving the US more than coming in each year is irrelevent. Also might suggest why Germany has now surpassed the US in exporting each year.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I have never believed our manufacturing sector was in danger. However I do believe the manufacturing worker is.

With automation the human aspect of the equation will keep getting pushed out to drive down costs and increase productivity.

Think about it. Would you rather own a factory that works 3 shifts, costing 3 times the wages, 3 times the admin costs, 3 times healthcare, 3 times the pensions? Or would you rather run a factory with automation where robots do most of the work and are doing it 24 hours a day with a skeleton crew?

This is where education and retraining needs to be focused to help manufacturing workers to move into other careers.

Thank you.. number never tell the whole story.. automation usually = several human employees replaced by a machine

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison
Topic Title: US manufacturing in decline
Topic Summary: Not hardly.

That's because things like cooking hamburgers have been re-classified as "Manufacturing" by the Republicans.

NO they have not.

The Bush Administration sure tried.

2-20-2004 In the New Economics: Fast-Food Factories?

Is cooking a hamburger patty and inserting the meat, lettuce and ketchup inside a bun a manufacturing job, like assembling automobiles?

That question is posed in the new Economic Report of the President, a thick annual compendium of observations and statistics on the health of the United States economy.

The latest edition, sent to Congress last week, questions whether fast-food restaurants should continue to be counted as part of the service sector or should be reclassified as manufacturers.

In a speech to Washington economists Tuesday, N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, said that properly classifying such workers was "an important consideration" in setting economic policy.

But the presidential report points out that the current system for classifying jobs "is not straightforward." The White House drew a box around the section so it would stand out among the 417 pages of statistics.

"When a fast-food restaurant sells a hamburger, for example, is it providing a 'service' or is it combining inputs to 'manufacture' a product?" the report asks.

David Huether, chief economist for the National Association of Manufacturers, said he had heard that some economists wanted to count hamburger flipping as manufacturing, which he noted would produce statistics showing more jobs in what has been a declining sector of the economy.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Genx87
I have never believed our manufacturing sector was in danger. However I do believe the manufacturing worker is.

With automation the human aspect of the equation will keep getting pushed out to drive down costs and increase productivity.

Think about it. Would you rather own a factory that works 3 shifts, costing 3 times the wages, 3 times the admin costs, 3 times healthcare, 3 times the pensions? Or would you rather run a factory with automation where robots do most of the work and are doing it 24 hours a day with a skeleton crew?

This is where education and retraining needs to be focused to help manufacturing workers to move into other careers.

Thank you.. number never tell the whole story.. automation usually = several human employees replaced by a machine

Yes, and somebody builds the machine - usually more complex than the machine that the employee would use for manual labor. Also, if there were "no" machines, much of the work would simply be shipped out with ALL of the jobs lost. At least a few remain.

Few > none

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison
Topic Title: US manufacturing in decline
Topic Summary: Not hardly.

That's because things like cooking hamburgers have been re-classified as "Manufacturing" by the Republicans.

NO they have not.

The Bush Administration sure tried.

2-20-2004 In the New Economics: Fast-Food Factories?

Is cooking a hamburger patty and inserting the meat, lettuce and ketchup inside a bun a manufacturing job, like assembling automobiles?

That question is posed in the new Economic Report of the President, a thick annual compendium of observations and statistics on the health of the United States economy.

The latest edition, sent to Congress last week, questions whether fast-food restaurants should continue to be counted as part of the service sector or should be reclassified as manufacturers.

In a speech to Washington economists Tuesday, N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, said that properly classifying such workers was "an important consideration" in setting economic policy.

But the presidential report points out that the current system for classifying jobs "is not straightforward." The White House drew a box around the section so it would stand out among the 417 pages of statistics.

"When a fast-food restaurant sells a hamburger, for example, is it providing a 'service' or is it combining inputs to 'manufacture' a product?" the report asks.

David Huether, chief economist for the National Association of Manufacturers, said he had heard that some economists wanted to count hamburger flipping as manufacturing, which he noted would produce statistics showing more jobs in what has been a declining sector of the economy.

It was question about job classification.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Genx87
I have never believed our manufacturing sector was in danger. However I do believe the manufacturing worker is.

With automation the human aspect of the equation will keep getting pushed out to drive down costs and increase productivity.

Think about it. Would you rather own a factory that works 3 shifts, costing 3 times the wages, 3 times the admin costs, 3 times healthcare, 3 times the pensions? Or would you rather run a factory with automation where robots do most of the work and are doing it 24 hours a day with a skeleton crew?

This is where education and retraining needs to be focused to help manufacturing workers to move into other careers.

Thank you.. number never tell the whole story.. automation usually = several human employees replaced by a machine

Yes, and somebody builds the machine - usually more complex than the machine that the employee would use for manual labor. Also, if there were "no" machines, much of the work would simply be shipped out with ALL of the jobs lost. At least a few remain.

Few > none

Yes, I understand the value of importing machines from other countries so we can use less laborers here 😉

I hear what you are saying.. but the machine is built once and a team designs it and then an assembly line, made up of other machines, puts it together.. There is still a reduction in human labor needed. I am not anti-machine BTW 😀

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I have never believed our manufacturing sector was in danger. However I do believe the manufacturing worker is.

With automation the human aspect of the equation will keep getting pushed out to drive down costs and increase productivity.

Think about it. Would you rather own a factory that works 3 shifts, costing 3 times the wages, 3 times the admin costs, 3 times healthcare, 3 times the pensions? Or would you rather run a factory with automation where robots do most of the work and are doing it 24 hours a day with a skeleton crew?

This is where education and retraining needs to be focused to help manufacturing workers to move into other careers.

But the jobs of manufactoring will now go into servicing, production, design, etc of all the machines used to manufactor the goods. Change isn't a bad thing. Actually, throughout history, it's been a good thing and the wealth of the world is going up.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dirtboy

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: dirtboy


Why should we manufacture something when we can have someone else do it for us for a quarter of the price. Makes no sense.

Trade deficit?

Irrelevent.

Yep, I guess 3/4 trillion leaving the US more than coming in each year is irrelevent. Also might suggest why Germany has now surpassed the US in exporting each year.

Do you actually know something about global economics, or do you post here to prove you are an idiot?

edit: Since you brought it up, how about some proof that the trade deficit is worse than having someone build it for less than we can.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison
Topic Title: US manufacturing in decline
Topic Summary: Not hardly.

That's because things like cooking hamburgers have been re-classified as "Manufacturing" by the Republicans.

NO they have not.

The Bush Administration sure tried.

2-20-2004 In the New Economics: Fast-Food Factories?

Is cooking a hamburger patty and inserting the meat, lettuce and ketchup inside a bun a manufacturing job, like assembling automobiles?

That question is posed in the new Economic Report of the President, a thick annual compendium of observations and statistics on the health of the United States economy.

The latest edition, sent to Congress last week, questions whether fast-food restaurants should continue to be counted as part of the service sector or should be reclassified as manufacturers.

In a speech to Washington economists Tuesday, N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, said that properly classifying such workers was "an important consideration" in setting economic policy.

But the presidential report points out that the current system for classifying jobs "is not straightforward." The White House drew a box around the section so it would stand out among the 417 pages of statistics.

"When a fast-food restaurant sells a hamburger, for example, is it providing a 'service' or is it combining inputs to 'manufacture' a product?" the report asks.

David Huether, chief economist for the National Association of Manufacturers, said he had heard that some economists wanted to count hamburger flipping as manufacturing, which he noted would produce statistics showing more jobs in what has been a declining sector of the economy.

Trying and doing aren't the same thing. You proved your own point wrong with that post.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison
Topic Title: US manufacturing in decline
Topic Summary: Not hardly.

That's because things like cooking hamburgers have been re-classified as "Manufacturing" by the Republicans.

NO they have not.

The Bush Administration sure tried.

2-20-2004 In the New Economics: Fast-Food Factories?

Is cooking a hamburger patty and inserting the meat, lettuce and ketchup inside a bun a manufacturing job, like assembling automobiles?

That question is posed in the new Economic Report of the President, a thick annual compendium of observations and statistics on the health of the United States economy.

The latest edition, sent to Congress last week, questions whether fast-food restaurants should continue to be counted as part of the service sector or should be reclassified as manufacturers.

In a speech to Washington economists Tuesday, N. Gregory Mankiw, chairman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, said that properly classifying such workers was "an important consideration" in setting economic policy.

But the presidential report points out that the current system for classifying jobs "is not straightforward." The White House drew a box around the section so it would stand out among the 417 pages of statistics.

"When a fast-food restaurant sells a hamburger, for example, is it providing a 'service' or is it combining inputs to 'manufacture' a product?" the report asks.

David Huether, chief economist for the National Association of Manufacturers, said he had heard that some economists wanted to count hamburger flipping as manufacturing, which he noted would produce statistics showing more jobs in what has been a declining sector of the economy.

Trying and doing aren't the same thing. You proved your own point wrong with that post.

lol self pwnage.