US is mistreating Al-Qaida prisoners!

[StageLeft]

<< Why is it that almost all Europeans are so soft and apologetic? Any pragmatic Europeans in Europe? >>

This in response to Nemesis's very prudent questions?

There must not be a double standard and I always liked to think that nations such as the US, England, etc. held human rights at a premium. It reassures me to know that I can say I live in a place that doesn't treat their prisoners like dogs. That is how I like to keep it.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< Why is it that almost all Europeans are so soft and apologetic? Any pragmatic Europeans in Europe? >>



Why is it that some americans are so thick-headed and moronic? Any intelligent americans in USA?

 

[Rison]

Well, it's official, Europeans can't seem to make up their mind on issues. 50 years ago they were slaughtering millions of their own citizens, now they're apologizing for every terrorist known to mankind and hounding the good guys to make the terrorist feel as comfortable as possible. From far-right to far-left, You guys need to make up your mind.

 

[rahvin]

Nemesis77,

In the war in Afgahnistan the US was not fighting a recognized Nation-State, they were fighting an organization that had allied itself with and used the resources of a Terrorist organisation. This Terrorist organisation is so blindingly evil that it is a threat to every free nation on the planet. Their stated goal is the destruction of every infidel nation. The people involved in Al-queda once captured can NEVER be allowed to go free.

This isn't a question about our laws, because frankly they wouldn't be convictable in our system because the standards of proof are too high. Our system is highly protective of the accused and those being accused now are NOT US citizens and don't deserve those protections (Walker is entitled to them). European nations could detain and convict these men but our system cannot, in a sense it is too broken.

The objections to these prisoners confinement seems to be the conditions. Well woop-de-do, they are on a tropical island where daytime temps are probably a nice comfortable 80's and the nights are probably around 60's. They are housed outdoors right now because the US millitary is in the process of building a REAL building to put them in. You don't just toss up a PRISON overnight and frankly I have NO DOUBT the conditions in Cuba are far better than those in Afgahnistan.

We detain these scum because they are a threat to the security of the US and every free nation.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< Well, it's official, Europeans can't seem to make up their mind on issues. 50 years ago they were slaughtering millions of their own citizens >>



talking about things that happened 50 years ago eh?? 50 years ago lunatic killed millions of innocents. A country that was controlled by gang of thugs was responsible. Europeans didn't massacre innocents, nazi-germany did.

If you want to talk about ancient things... In Vietnam, USA poured tons of Agent Orange on unsuspecting populace. Injuries of that can still be seen in malformed children and high cancer-rates. Does that make you any better?



<< no they're apologizing for every terrorist known to mankind and hounding the good guys to make the terrorist feel as comfortable as possible. From far-right to far-left, You guys need to make up your mind. >>



You are (again) twisting words. Europe is NOT suggesting that terrorists go unpunished! What they are concerned about is that they get fair trial and humane treatment as said in international law. There are european nationals among those prisoners so it's only understandable that they are concerned over their treatment. USA seems to be doing the same thing, the only american prisoner get's special treatment.

God, sometimes (sometimes? Try "always"!) talking to you is like talking to a wall!

 

[Sepen]

<< They're gettin' three hots and a cot, which is better than some American citizens get. >>



GD right! WTF, kill them and then feed some homeless or poor people. F them to hel*.

 

[Sepen]

<< You people are insane. You rant and rave about 'the 3000 dead Americans didn't get Geneva Convention rights' but then you claim that we should 'kill them all', 'fvck em all', 'use them for ammo testing'. Well which is it? You want people to get their rights or not? Who are you to judge whether someone deserves basic human treatment? >>



You make me wanna puke. Do you leave in Berkely?

 

[Rison]

These animals are being treated well, you pacifist are just whining because you have nothing better to do. You need to stop being concerned about terrorists and more about the poor and homeless in your countries. These people are the last people you'd want in your country.

As far as WWII is concerned, it wasn't just Germany. The French, Poles, and Russians slaughtered the innocent, especially Jews.

 

[perry]

<< USA seems to be doing the same thing, the only american prisoner get's special treatment. >>



He's an American. The plane crashes were acts of aggression against America. He is being tried in an American court of law in accordance with our laws.

The other nationals are being held in accordance with American and International laws.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< We detain these scum because they are a threat to the security of the US and every free nation. >>



If that is the case, why do YOU have to be holding them? I mean, there are other place to put them to court. British nationals could be sent to britain. After all, british were involved in the combat, british suffered casualties in WTC.

Are those people POW's?
Are they illegal combatants?
Are they common criminals?
Are they terrorists?
Did any of them break the law in USA?

Should they be put to trial? Damn right! But there are genuine concerns when it comes to the way things have been handled so far.

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14241-2002Jan21.html

if this link has been mentioned before, well, I don't care, here it is again.

 

[jbod]

Does accessory to crime mean anything to to you Nemesis77?

 

[Nemesis77]

<< He's an American. The plane crashes were acts of aggression against America. He is being tried in an American court of law in accordance with our laws.

The other nationals are being held in accordance with American and International laws. >>



If they get the same treatment, why isn't Walker in Guantanamo? Does the fact that he's american change anything?

American law, why not british law as well? After all, some of the prisoners are british citizens. If the american prisoner gets treated according to american law, why can't the british citizens be treated according to british law?

 

[Nemesis77]

<< Does accessory to crime mean anything to to you Nemesis77? >>



Does that apply if the accused parties are citizens of foreign country residing outside USA? Could US Governemt suddenly decide that I havge broken US Law and ship me to USA to face trial?

Why not ship the british citizens to Britain where they would face british court. Why not ship the swedish pridoner to Sweden, where he would stand trial?

 

[Rison]

Again, might equals right. It's our war, our rules. ANy problems? Didn't think so.

 

[Optimus]

If I were a POW and I were given a cot, 3 full and nutritious meals a day, freedom to walk about and talk in the large communal cell, clothes, and was not beaten, tortured, pissed on, raped, or abused... I'd be freaking dancing for joy.

We owe it to OURSELVES to treat the prisoners, whatever the nature of the prisoners be, with dignity and respect.

But not lavishly.

Food, shelter, clothing, companionship, and somewhere dry to sleep is dignified and respectful. So too is not beating, torturing, etc - it dignifies ourselves as a people and nation.

But what should these prisoners have that they do not? TV? Telephones? A pool table?

They are fenced into an area with barracks. The area is lit at night, and patrolled from above by armed marines. The prisoners are given orange jumpsuits, fed 3 square meals, and sleep on cots in a tropical environment.

The biggest concerns so far seem to have been:

1) They are exposed to mosquitos
2) The famous shot of some blindfolded and on thier knees.

1) So? We are in arms over bug repellant??? They get itchy bites??? So do I when I go camping!
2) And how do we know those prisoners weren't getting violent? Or trying to revolt? Escape? With no solitary confinement cells built - that looks like a humane punishment to me.

It comes down to this:

We should treat these prisoners fairly and humanely, and not torture, kill, or harm them. But from what I read/see - they are being treated just fine. Where is the evidence of mistreatment?

 

[jbod]

Liberal fantasy of treatment of terrorists:

On Sunday, paparazzi armed with cameras met the 34 newest prisoners and led them one-by-one from the Air Force C-141 cargo plane on a red carpet to a waiting limousine with champagne and caviar. The inmates' wore Armani denim jackets, FUBU knit caps, turquoise Michael Jackson masks and Usher goggles. They were quite well taken care of.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< Again, might equals right. It's our war, our rules. ANy problems? Didn't think so. >>



You are one sick, twisted individual. Few messages back you complained because nazis killed jew by the millions. Well, by your logic: they were powerful, they had the right to do so.

 

[Rison]

We should treat these prisoners fairly and humanely, and not torture, kill, or harm them. But from what I read/see - they are being treated just fine. Where is the evidence of mistreatment?

There is no evidence. Apologists can't help themselves but to think their the terrorists' mommies.

 

[DSTA]

Again, might equals right. It's our war, our rules. ANy problems? Didn't think so.

Sounds like a big thug punching the lights of a small thug out.

I'm glad the US administration is not handling the situation as bad as you would like it to be.

 

[jbod]

Does that apply if the accused parties are citizens of foreign country residing outside USA? Could US Governemt suddenly decide that I havge broken US Law and ship me to USA to face trial?

Yes, it's called extradition. They broke our laws and now they are in our jurisdiction.

 

[ToBeMe]

• Blair: No Guantanamo Complaints
  
  By Lynne Sladky
  Associated Press Writer
  Monday, January 21, 2002; 11:51 AM
  
  GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba ?? The British Prime Minister sought Monday to ease tensions that blew up over the weekend about U.S. treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo prison, saying three Britons held captive there "had no complaints."
  
  A British team visited the prison camp at Guantanamo Bay over the weekend, at the same time that newspapers at home were playing up pictures of Taliban and al-Qaida prisoners shackled and kneeling. The news coverage prompted the government in London to ask the United States to explain itself.
  
  The British team confirmed that the three British prisoners "had no complaints about their treatment," Blair's official spokesman said Monday.
  
  "They are in good physical health and there was no sign of any mistreatment. They have also had contact with the Red Cross," said the spokesman, who briefed reporters on condition of anonymity.
  
  "The three asked for a number of messages to be passed to their families and we are in the process of doing that.
  
  "There were no gags, no goggles, no ear muffs, no shackles while the detainees are in their cells. They only wear shackles ? and only shackles ? when they are outside their cells," Blair's spokesman said.
  

 

[Nemesis77]

<< Does that apply if the accused parties are citizens of foreign country residing outside USA? Could US Governemt suddenly decide that I havge broken US Law and ship me to USA to face trial?

Yes, it's called extradition. They broke our laws and now they are in our jurisdiction. >>



To my knowledge you can't simply decide and do that. You can't show up to my doorstep and ship me to USA. You would have to work it through local authorities. Have you consulted with british or swedish governments? If you have why would they be worried over their treatment?

 

[Rison]

Might equals right, that's why we have a word in the English language called 'interests.'

Yeah, the Nazis killed millions of innocent Jews (mostly their own citizens) and we dealt with them properly.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< Might equals right, that's why we have a word in the English language called 'interests.'

Yeah, the Nazis killed millions of innocent Jews (mostly their own citizens) and we dealt with them properly. >>



Yes, but the nazis were powerful when compared to the jews, so they had the right to massacre 6 million of them. You yourself said that might equals right. Nazis had the might over jews, so by your logic they had the right to kill them.